David Haye: The Great Black Hype

[whiteathlete33]

Angelo Dundee is nothing more than a little man with a big ego. He feels since he was Ali's trainer that Ali is the greatest fighter of all time and would destroy any heavyweight in any era. I'm guessing short people try to feel "bigger" this way.

 

[space hillbilly]

Angelo Dundee is nothing more than a little man with a big ego.  He feels since he was Ali's trainer that Ali is the greatest fighter of all time and would destroy any heavyweight in any era.  I'm guessing short people try to feel "bigger" this way.

I don't think Dundee was his real name. I believe he's jewish..

 

[white is right]

Dundee is a Scottish name he is ethnic Italian. He and his older brother Chris ran a gym in the Black section of Miami. If heavyweights that size could still win they would be winning.

 

[j41181]

I just watched the Quarry-Chuvalo match replay, and I must say, these guys would get pulverized by either Klitschko. Sure they're tough and iron-willed, but that ain't nothing if you got no skills and size.

I also watched Bugner's fights with Ali and Frazier, and boy this guy didn't know how to utilize his height advantage. They say he was a noted for his defense, but I think he should be more noted for his small heart, and his only desire was to survive as oppose to being the best.

 

[space hillbilly]

I just watched the Quarry-Chuvalo match replay, and I must say, these guys would get pulverized by either Klitschko. Sure they're tough and iron-willed, but that ain't nothing if you got no skills and size.

I also watched Bugner's fights with Ali and Frazier, and boy this guy didn't know how to utilize his height advantage. They say he was a noted for his defense, but I think he should be more noted for his small heart, and his only desire was to survive as oppose to being the best.

I remember reading Henry cooper's book.. And as I recall cooper said Bugner was just in boxing for the money only..

 

[ww]

Joe Bugner outlasted all of them. His pro career lasted an amazing 31 years. He last fought in 1999.
Edited by: ww

 

[whiteathlete33]

Good stuff from Manny Steward on David Haye.

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=27961

Here is more from Corrie Sanders. Check the comments below as well. http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=27949

Edited by: whiteathlete33

 

[ww]

Good comments from Steward, and it's nice to hear from Corrie Sanders again, but he disappointed me so much in his last fight. I don't believe he did even a single situp to train for it, so he got tapped in the stomach and down he went, but he could have been the best of them all.

 

[whiteathlete33]

Sanders was a good fighter. The key word here is was.

 

[ww]

Of course the key word is was. He's retired. He could have been a great fighter. He could have been the best of them all. He had amazing natural ability, but he hated to train. Wlad had the great misfortune to run into him one of the few times in his life that he got himself into top shape. There was a whole bunch of stuff I read about the intense training he was doing for the Wlad fight. But I couldn't believe the way he showed up for the biggest fight of his life vs. Vitali - fat. And Vitali was prime, peak, beautiful to watch - and still CS was missing him with bombs by inches. You can see the fight on Youtube. CS almost had Vitali KO'd in round one - and I'm the biggest fan of the K brothers, ever since I first saw them. But if CS had shown up in the same shape he did against Wlad it could well have been a sad night for them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdC0v8y4axw

This should really be on a seperate CS thread.


ww

 

[whiteathlete33]

Well his comeback attempt in 2008 didn't go so good. Check out the punch stats for that fight WW.

<table style="text-align: center; : right; border: 1px solid rgb170, 170, 170; border-collapse: collapse; : none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb249, 249, 249; margin-left: 10px; margin-bottom: 5px;" border="1" cellpadding="3"><caption> Punchstats
</caption>
<t><tr style=": none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb233, 233, 233;">
<th> Total Punches </th><th> Klitschko </th><th> Sanders
</th></tr>
<tr>
<td> Landed </td><td> 230 </td><td> 51
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> Thrown </td><td> 413 </td><td> 229
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> Pct. </td><td> 56% </td><td> 22%
</td></tr>
<tr style=": none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb233, 233, 233;">
<th> Power Punches </th><th> Klitschko </th><th> Sanders
</th></tr>
<tr>
<td> Landed </td><td> 171 </td><td> 42
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> Thrown </td><td> 285 </td><td> 139
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td> Pct. </td><td> 60% </td><td> 30%
</td></tr></t></table>

 

[whiteathlete33]

I have to agree with you that Vitali was in trouble at the end of the first round with Sanders. That's the most trouble I have ever seen him in. With that being said I don't think he was even close to knocking Vitali out. He stunned him a bit. Remember that Sanders is a very good athlete who ran the 100m in 11 flat.
Edited by: whiteathlete33

 

[JReb1]

We also don't know what kind of shape Sanders was in against Wlad since it only lasted 2 rounds. WK just got caught early and repeatedly because he lacked defense and the ability to fight at range like he does now thanks to Manny's training.

Wlad right now would destroy any version of Sanders, Vitali too. VK wasn't hurt by CS in the 1st, he just got buzzed for a split second and moved (like he always does) to avoid taking a combo. CS shape didn't matter against Vitali, he was losing that fight regardless. Maybe a 100% in shape Sanders wins 4-5 rounds at most. I like Sanders and think he underachieved in his career but he gets really overrated by many (usually haters of the Klits) for beating a green and unprepared Wlad. If CS didn't think he got somewhat lucky he would've given Wlad a rematch...

 

[whiteathlete33]

I agree JReb, Vitali wasn't really hurt but was stunned a bit. If Sanders was able to follow up he may have been able to knock Vitali down but then again the guy has an iron chin. Steward has done an unbelievable job with Wladimir. Steward is also a great guy which can't be said for most of the blacks in boxing.
Edited by: whiteathlete33

 

[space hillbilly]

We also don't know what kind of shape Sanders was in against Wlad since it only lasted 2 rounds. WK just got caught early and repeatedly because he lacked defense and the ability to fight at range like he does now thanks to Manny's training. Wlad right now would destroy any version of Sanders, Vitali too. VK wasn't hurt by CS in the 1st, he just got buzzed for a split second and moved (like he always does) to avoid taking a combo. CS shape didn't matter against Vitali, he was losing that fight regardless. Maybe a 100% in shape Sanders wins 4-5 rounds at most. I like Sanders and think he underachieved in his career but he gets really overrated by many (usually haters of the Klits) for beating a green and unprepared Wlad. If CS didn't think he got somewhat lucky he would've given Wlad a rematch...

Right! If the media say somthing good about a white fighter it's because he lost to a black! As you can see their not saying anything good about the klitschkos, The Quarrys, Morrisons, Cooneys, Were not representative of the white race! I dont know why? But most of them were drug addicts, lowlifes, woman beaters, And alcoholics.. The Klitschko's are the first quality white men in pro boxing in the last fifty years! with the exception of Marciano and Gerrie Coetzee...

 

[Thrashen]

I agree JReb, Vitali wasn't really hurt but was stunned a bit.  If Sanders was able to follow up he may have been able to knock Vitali down but then again the guy has an iron chin. Steward has done an unbelievable job with Wladimir. Steward is also a great guy which can't be said for most of the blacks in boxing.

The bottom line concerning the Sanders vs. Vitali fight was that it was surely the closest anyone ever came to knocking Vitali down (it's still never officially happened). I agree with WW, Sanders should have been an all time great. His punching power and athleticism were off the charts. I doubt he'd be able to beat Wlad again, or Vitali once, but it could have been some legendary battles.

 

[j41181]

Corrie Sanders blossomed too late, I mean he was in his late 30's when he fought the Kiltschkos. Why didn't Sanders gain serious contention during the 90's???

He could've challenged the likes of Tyson, Holyfield, Morrison, Bowe, Botha, and Lewis. He could've defeated any one of them if given the chance. It seems wrong he never got such opportunities.

I always admired Emanuel Steward, a class act of the sport. A truly great trainer, and it's nice he made great boxer in Wladimir, and I think only Freddie Roach can rival him as the best trainer.

You guys failed to mention the late Ingemar Johansson, who was an archetype Swede in his day. While he never trained properly for his fights, he did win some amazing fights (against Patterson and Machen in particular), and he was a great attraction of the ring (with women in particular). I can't possibly imagine a male Swede like Johansson today.

 

[ww]

Corrie Sanders blossomed too late, I mean he was in his late 30's when he fought the Kiltschkos. Why didn't Sanders gain serious contention during the 90's???


--- Because the top fighters were all avoiding him for obvious reasons, and because he lived in the RSA and wouldn't move to the USA like Frans Botha (who he defeated four times in the amateurs) did.



He could've challenged the likes of Tyson, Holyfield, Morrison, Bowe, Botha, and Lewis. He could've defeated any one of them if given the chance. It seems wrong he never got such opportunities.


---Yep. If he showed up in top shape he could have defeated any of them, and like I said he did beat Botha 4 times. He had a big fight against Rahman and he was smacking Rahman around the ring - and then he ran out of steam. He showed up for his biggest fights (except the one against Wlad) out of shape, and this one too. he said he couldn't run at all to train for Rahman because his ankle or foot was hurt - and still he was knocking Rahman around the ring like a rag doll in the early rounds - and that was just two fights before Rahman ko'd Lennox Lewis!
.


I always admired Emanuel Steward, a class act of the sport. A truly great trainer, and it's nice he made great boxer in Wladimir, and I think only Freddie Roach can rival him as the best trainer.


--- The K brothers are now the greatest heavyweights of all time.


You guys failed to mention the late Ingemar Johansson, who was an archetype Swede in his day. While he never trained properly for his fights, he did win some amazing fights (against Patterson and Machen in particular), and he was a great attraction of the ring (with women in particular). I can't possibly imagine a male Swede like Johansson today.

--- Johanssen called his right hand The Hammer of Thor. I remember him running marathons in the USA in the '80's and maybe even the early '90's before he sadly contracted Alzheimer's disease. He just passed away last year.

 

[ww]

I agree JReb, Vitali wasn't really hurt but was stunned a bit. If Sanders was able to follow up he may have been able to knock Vitali down but then again the guy has an iron chin. Steward has done an unbelievable job with Wladimir. Steward is also a great guy which can't be said for most of the blacks in boxing.

Vitali would have been in big trouble if there was more time left in that round. CS was a fantastically quick starter. Many of his wins came by way of 1st-3rd round ko.

 

[ww]

I have to agree with you that Vitali was in trouble at the end of the first round with Sanders. That's the most trouble I have ever seen him in. With that being said I don't think he was even close to knocking Vitali out. He stunned him a bit. Remember that Sanders is a very good athlete who ran the 100m in 11 flat.

Sanders was a fast runner?

 

[ww]

We also don't know what kind of shape Sanders was in against Wlad since it only lasted 2 rounds...

He weighed ten pounds more for the Vitali fight than for the Wlad fight. I remember getting suspicious when I saw his training pictures and he was always wearing a baggy sweat shirt. I also remember reading about how hard he trained for Wlad, state of the art equipment, personal trainers, the works.

 

[whiteathlete33]

I agree JReb, Vitali wasn't really hurt but was stunned a bit. If Sanders was able to follow up he may have been able to knock Vitali down but then again the guy has an iron chin. Steward has done an unbelievable job with Wladimir. Steward is also a great guy which can't be said for most of the blacks in boxing.

Vitali would have been in big trouble if there was more time left in that round. CS was a fantastically quick starter. Many of his wins came by way of 1st-3rd round ko.

Not necessarily. I think Vitali would have lasted even in Sanders followed up better. Sanders had a chance to make history if he beat both K brothers. He's the only guy who even had a chance. Sanders is an even more dangerous fighter than Lennox Lewis in my opinion.

 

[Westside]

Yeah, CS is sort of a dumb fellow . I was at the Staples center during that fight against Vitali. Once he took off his robe I knew Vitali would crush him. For some reason CS thought by just showing up he could beat the older brother. Its funny how he bit the bullet and got into supreme condition and destroyed Wlad, but forgot to when he fought Vitali. I think he thought Vitali was half the fighter Wlad was. But in reality Vitali is in alot of ways so much better. Like chin and stamina.

Till the day I die, I will always remember Vitali walking down the aisle playing the song "Hotel California"! The place was sold out! which was huge due to large hispanic demographic. Anyways it was a special night, because I was witnessing greatness, even though the MSM refuses for the most part not to acknowledge the K Brothers greatness.

If Wlad and Vitali fought the supposed great fighters of the 70s they would beat all. The most difficult would be George Foreman. But both could win by taking him into deep waters.

 

[space hillbilly]

Yeah, CS is sort of a dumb fellow . I was at the Staples center during that fight against Vitali. Once he took off his robe I knew Vitali would crush him. For some reason CS thought by just showing up he could beat the older brother. Its funny how he bit the bullet and got into supreme condition and destroyed Wlad, but forgot to when he fought Vitali. I think he thought Vitali was half the fighter Wlad was. But in reality Vitali is in alot of ways so much better. Like chin and stamina.

Till the day I die, I will always remember Vitali walking down the aisle playing the song "Hotel California"! The place was sold out! which was huge due to large hispanic demographic. Anyways it was a special night, because I was witnessing greatness, even though the MSM refuses for the most part not to acknowledge the K Brothers greatness.

If Wlad and Vitali fought the supposed great fighters of the 70s they would beat all. The most difficult would be George Foreman. But both could win by taking him into deep waters.

I bet that was a very special night! Seeing the greatest boxer in history at his best!

 

[JReb1]

I agree JReb, Vitali wasn't really hurt but was stunned a bit. If Sanders was able to follow up he may have been able to knock Vitali down but then again the guy has an iron chin. Steward has done an unbelievable job with Wladimir. Steward is also a great guy which can't be said for most of the blacks in boxing.

Vitali would have been in big trouble if there was more time left in that round. CS was a fantastically quick starter. Many of his wins came by way of 1st-3rd round ko.

Not necessarily. I think Vitali would have lasted even in Sanders followed up better. Sanders had a chance to make history if he beat both K brothers. He's the only guy who even had a chance. Sanders is an even more dangerous fighter than Lennox Lewis in my opinion.

Ross Puritty and Chris Byrd also had a chance to beat both brothers and failed.

As for the Sanders being out of shape excuse against VK and in good shape for WK, I call BS. If Wlad knew how to fight at a distance and hold (like he does now) when a fighter gets inside he would've also beat CS late as CS ran out of gas. CS weighed 225 against WK and 235 against VK, which isn't a lot to gain in a year and close to his usual fighting weight. CS went 8 grueling rounds with Vitali, which is further than he went in all but 3 other fights of his, so he was in good shape he was just in with a superior fighter. CS was never a chiseled looking fighter. He also suffered from confidence problems that he saw a sports psychologist for which cost him more in his career than his fitness ever did IMHO..