They’ve won.

[ToughJ.Riggins]

Ok White Shogun...I never said that blacks were not "at all" more genetically prone to violence. If I did I would agree that that would be contradicting myself. It is just something in my opinion that I think is demeaning to discuss, I also think it is more out of quick tempers than bad nature. There are also cultural issues like serious poverty, gangs, crack addictions in the inner cities...and Rap is a very bad influence. There could also be Jimmy the geek type geneology theories from back in days of slavery as to why blacks may have quicker tempers ("rare instances" of inbreeding? That is a strong theory historically as to why certain Royal Families had quick tempers!)

There are occasional Hillbillies that do this on purpose "what's a virgin in West Virginia? A 12 year old that can outrun her cousins ]

. However, a cousin is not close enough related to strongly present your pronounced bad family genetic traits...You get the idea and I don't feel like diagraming demeaning theories any further...I already have crossed the line way too far.

It's like that joke: What is the definition of total mayhem? Fathers day in Harlem. Many of these kids dads are in jail for drug dealing etc. and the cycle continues on b/c they don't have proper guidance. Bill Cosby has spoken out about this and even said that blacks have to stop playing victim. The guy has alot of courage for speaking the truth. The Emmancipation Proclamation was issued Jan 1 1863 it is now 2006...slavery ended a long time ago. That is one thing that I have no problem saying about blacks, most are holding grudges from the past and too many of them play the race card.

I am trying to be postive here by building postives out of negatives. I believe in downplaying "all" negative stereotypes. Tell me why people on this site believe that whites are "alot smarter than blacks" if whites are alot smarter than blacks than it is just strengthening the other sides arguement...Many of these white race traitor Caste supporters in my opinion are actually very racist. They pretend to be these liberal academic types but really repress their real feelings about race. I believe there are small differences. I think believing there are small differences, and the genetic research I have read attests to that, strengthens our case!

Secondly, I may not have clarified, but that was my exact point when saying that there are even "very few black running backs" that posess that kind of hip swerve. My point was just that! I am skepticle however that this white Barry Sanders exists...
There is blatant discrimination that goes on, but with the way scouts droll over agility (They definitley totally undervalue power running and white skin in general

) I think that even a strong caste system couldn't hold a white Barry Sanders back, at least from getting carries in Div I! I don't know I haven't seen Jared Hawkins or Jake Sharp play so you'll have to inform me if I am wrong...I guess I went way to far with this post and probably offended everybody. I only need apologize to WV residents, b/c there are no blacks on this site! I have now defended and outlined my veiws and will no longer ever do political rants! Thats why Dennis Miller was canned from Monday night football!Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins

 

[sunshine]

Amazing how the media has quickly switched from Vick to Young in the blink of an eye. Reason is simple. It is not the player/person it is the race. Vick/Young represent the ideal black athlete that "sets Him Apart" according to the media from white athletes--in terms of speed, elusiveness and flair. The media is forever trying to broadcast that blacks are the greatest/swiftest etc.. Never mind Young hasn't played all that well apart from a few runs. And give him time people will start hitting him soon enough.
As for talk about blacks being a smidge better--or quicker--count me out of that line of thinking. Give people or the media a termite inch on this subject and they will take it and run with it and ram it down yout throats in return.. Hip swivel etc.---the hell with the black is better theories. That to me is the only stance caste busters can take if we are ever to see a change in the system. Don't give a friggen inch that is my motto!!!!

 

[White Shogun]

Okay, Riggins. Long post, lots to comment on!

First, you complain about people making comments regarding black stereotypes, but you have no problem making jokes about hillbilly inbreeding. I don't take offense, as I see the humor in things. However, I feel certain that if I made a joke about blacks, you'd take umbrage. Am I wrong? Haven't you already?

Second, you said that making the statement "whites are a lot smarter than blacks" plays into the other sides argument. I'm not sure what argument you mean, but if by saying that whites are smarter it means that blacks are then more athletic, it doesn't follow. One does not presuppose the other. It's not an either / or proposition. Whites can be both smarter than and more athletic than blacks. In case you haven't noticed, Nature doesn't ensure that talent is always evenly distributed.

Then you go on to say that your point was that there aren't very many 'Barry Sanders,' black or white. But in the very next sentence you say that you don't believe a white 'Barry Sanders' exists. What would you say if I told you that there is no black Isaac Newton? Or a black Da Vinci? How racist would that be?

I'm playing the Devil's Advocate here because you need to see the double standard that you're pushing. You don't want people to say negative things about blacks, but IMO saying that there is no such thing as a white "Barry Sanders" is the same thing. I personally believe there is a white Barry Sanders out there somewhere. It's also possible that there is a black Isaac Newton out there somewhere, too.

And please don't complain that I'm picking on you. I disagree with many of the points you've made and am merely pointing out what I see as double standards and inconsistencies in your thought process. It has nothing to do with you personally.

 

[white lightning]

Great post White Shogun.You nailed it.

 

[sport historian]

Yeah it would be very interesting, like the Olympics! I do think that whites would fair better. I was wanting to ask other posters: which positions you think whites would have the edge at? I think whites would have the advantage in play at every position except CB and HB...even WR and Saftey b/c it's extremly close and there is a much larger pool of whites in the American population. I wouldn't even be surprised if most of the the top rushers (they'd have better blocking) and CB's ended up coming out of the Non African Football conference (NFC) like you're saying after some adjustment to their new chance to play those positions at the top level.

I wouldn't concede a single position, including CB and TB.  For one thing, the NFL doesn't have nearly as many speedy players as people think.  When you see a really fast player he sticks out, which only goes to show how many don't have great speed. 


Most running backs, especially after they've been in the league a few years, "lumber" down the field. So many whites would make capable power backs.  And there are lots of smaller ones who are quick and elusive.  We see them every year confined to Div. II teams. 


Whites on average are as good or better than blacks in every aspect of the sport except straight-line speed, and even there the far greater number of white football players neutralizes that small advantage.  Intelligence, hand-eye coordination, teamwork, feel for the game, strength, endurance, you name it and whites are second to no one. 


Add in love of the sport and football is a white man's game.It sure would be fun to find out for sure through race-based football!

 

[sport historian]

Don, Sorry I flubbed that post. You wrote the following:

"Whites on average are as good or better than blacks in every respect of the game except straight-line speed, and even there the far greater number of white football players neurtalizes that small advantage. Intelligence, hand-eye coordination, teamwork, feel for the game, strength, endurance, you name it and whites are second to none."

I remember in the early 1960's, writers (and black athletes) would claim that blacks were just as good or better in the qualities that Don lists above. This changed around 1970. Writers started saying that blacks were "looser, uninhibited, innovative, liberated, etc, etc."

There was a book on the history of pro football published about this time that had a chapter on the emergence of blacks in the game that made the assertion that blacks had taught white players to "express themselves." This meant hand-slapping and spiking the ball, and so on.

 

[white is right]

Don, Sorry I flubbed that post. You wrote the following:

"Whites on average are as good or better than blacks in every respect of the game except straight-line speed, and even there the far greater number of white football players neurtalizes that small advantage. Intelligence, hand-eye coordination, teamwork, feel for the game, strength, endurance, you name it and whites are second to none."

I remember in the early 1960's, writers (and black athletes) would claim that blacks were just as good or better in the qualities that Don lists above. This changed around 1970. Writers started saying that blacks were "looser, uninhibited, innovative, liberated, etc, etc."

There was a book on the history of pro football published about this time that had a chapter on the emergence of blacks in the game that made the assertion that blacks had taught white players to "express themselves." This meant hand-slapping and spiking the ball, and so on.

So the invention of the high 5 was the end of the white tailback/cornerback? Somebody ought to go back in time and assassinate Glen Burke....

 

[cslewis1]

In defense of Dough Williams. He did lead Tampa Bay to the NFC Championship game in '79. The same team that set the record for failure just two years previous.
I've always liked Doug Williams. I respect the guys who stand up to the Caste System, be they black or white, and in the mid 70's it was certainly biased against blacks at QB. Obviously much has changed, much, much for the worse, but that's our problem for not being aggresive enough in defending our kind. We are simply too fat and happy in America nowadays to risk upsetting the apple cart.

It'll change soon, for certain, hopefully it won't be too late by then.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

Ok White Shogun, first off I do not take offense to saying there are "small" differences between different ethnic groups of the human species genetically. Different cultures were "for the most part" "genetically" isolated, as far as producing children, for around 80,000 years until the Reinessance/exploration era. Even since civilization rose in 3500 B.C you don't hear of many cases of groups like Egyptions mating with the Hebrews when they were their slaves or even the Chinese mating with Europeans back in the days of the silk road in the middle ages. As you know Columbus's voyage was in 1492 which is very recent in the scheme of things. Interracial marriage was very rare in the United States until the 1960's Hippie free love era. Spaniards mating with the Native Americans started becoming fairly common by the late 1600's from what I've heard, but I digress.

I also agree with your point that talent is not evenly distributed by natural selection and sexual selection. Even within different groups of the same species one group could wind up with with alot more advantagous "traits" than another race of people, but within those different "phenotypes/shown traits" the differences in each category/skill in my opinion would be small. West Africans may possess a slight advantage in speed because of the environment they lived in. Whites may be slightly better all around athletes, with stronger upper bodies for instance and be slightly smarter. Whites could certainly be slightly more athletic and slightly smarter than blacks.

However, my point was that certain posters on this site have characterized blacks as "far" dumber than whites and I think that is alot more demeaning than saying whites are "far" slower than blacks...Being stupid is frowned upon in society far more than being slow of foot. I also feel that if this site wants to overemphasize large differences between races that it could hurt our cause. Since we are not geneticists, the mainstream public might start calling us "white supremicist types." They may argue: "If you claim "large" genetic differences than how do you know that the black monopoly in the NFL is racist? Maybe blacks are just that much better as RBs. It seems that the only goal of your site is to build up whites and put down blacks." This will make our arguement alot more complicated. Especially since the athletic data that I've looked at indicates very small differences in workout numbers and production among the races. And from my investigation whites usually do better. The small difference arguement helps our cause more, and talking about who's smarter should be a less emphasized topic! And if we want to talk about crime we should talk about it as the problem as it relates to sports with appeasing and spoiling athletes. I wish for a return to the Vince Lombardi Era "When Pride Still Mattered." That is a very good book that posters should read. It is about an era where work ethic, your team, and the coach were respected!

 

[Freedom]

White Shogun wrote:

I personally believe there is a white Barry Sanders out
there somewhere. It's also possible that there is a
black Isaac Newton out there somewhere, too.

I think a white Issac Newton and a black Barry Sanders are going to be practically just as hard to come by as a black Issac Newton and a white Barry Sanders. Talents like that will always be very rare, although new training methods are always being developed to compensate for lack of natural ability.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

And to compare contemporary times to "When Pride still mattered"...As for saying I don't mind Terrell Owens, I was just playing Devil's Advocate also. I do think though that he plays hard when he's on the feild and is funny. I think his outrageous statements have to do more with a lack of judgement than malice.

I also am in favour of the new celebration ban/rules, but Terrell Owens "at the time" wasn't hurting his team with penalties w/ his antics he was just being outrageous. He also was willing to put out the money in fines! He's certainly not one of my favourite players but I find R. Moss, R. Lewis and Keshawn Johnson much worse!Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins

 

[PitBull]

TJR--anybody who stands up for the white man in a liberal white man-
hating society will be called a white supremecist anyway. I think its better
to stand up for yourself than let myths such as "bone density is destiny"
be used to deny able white men the chance to compete.

Black criminal behavior is a general problem anywhere blacks are
numerous, so it is not simply a phenomenon of appeasing or spoiling of
athletes. Rarely are any of these criminal athletes first-time offenders
either.

You are right about one thing. And that is that the general population is
more likely to be swayed by showing a system to be unfair and
discriminatory than by simply putting other people down. That's partly
brain-washing and partly idealism. In my opinion, this whole idea of
complete fairness and impartiality is an illusion. I have never seen this in
my life. Always, I see the group in power treating those in the
empowered group better and offering them better opportunites than
outsiders. Always. I think idealism is something of a mental disease. So
I am in favor of my group being in power, because that's best for me and
them. In other words, my morality is more practical. I'm sure we differ
here. Being high-minded and "fair" towards these black people is what
has caused a great many of our problems in America, from the ruination
of great swaths of our greatest cities, to educational ruin of our public
schools, to rampant crime, family destruction and dysfunction, illegitmate
kids etc. They ain't like us, never will be, and don't want to be. I see it as
a fight, and you don't say nice things about your enemy in a fight, or try
to take the high road--you do what you can to win, which also means a
one-sided view of the enemy. You may not regard blacks as your enemy,
but I guarantee you that they think that way of you. So, take the high
road, and somehow think its going to be all right, or take a realistic view
(IMO) and see this as the fight it is. People in the media and blacks in the
game and in the general population know what fairness is too. They just
don't give damn. And appeals to fairness and reason will be theoreticaly
agreed to and ignored in practice.

And last, but not least, sports is a lot more than just a sprinting contest.
That's why Steve Largent was a far superior receiver to, say, Willlie Gault.
And elite athletes are by definition far fom average. I bet if you took
bone density scans of NFL players, there would be no notable racial
difference. But IQ wise, you can compare Wonderlic scores and see the
average difference, even at the elite level. What does that say?

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

Pitbull, I know that many blacks see whites as the enemy and that is the problem. Many hold grudges from the past in my opinion. However, there is nothing we can do at this point except stop appeasing them and giving them special rights. That is why I am on this site, b/c in athletics it is the most blatant.

Martin Luther Kings speech about being colour blind does not apply to the world we live in. It is a sociological fact that you automatically notice outer characteristics like race/ gender/ disability etc. In American History Lincoln's plan to start a free black colony after slavery was not installed and segregation has ended. We can't go back. The only things American whites can do, is things like change our immigration policies to stay in the majority and try to build peace. You can be fair without appeasing. I think other groups would respect us more for standing up for ourselves as every other group seems to do!

I found this site b/c of the ridiculous discrimination Jesse Lumsden faced, as a Canuck it woke me up to the American sports caste system which is much stronger than in Canada. When I researched this issue it baffled me how a bias system this strong can exist, with most American whites knowing nothing about it. I have found numerous college athletes that were discriminated against. Believe me more Canadians get it than Americans, so if you are saying liberalism is the cause of the American anti-white system I wouldn't entirely agree. Canada is more liberal, but we don't have the guilt complex problem that Americans have toward blacks which is part of the appeasment problem! Canada has less minorities also. It is actually easier to discuss race in Canada than the U.S . In my opinion people are less worried about law suits and getting fired for racial prejudice issues. Believe me there are less civil lawsuits in Canada...People acually deal with things here on a more personal level in our economy although that is a bit of a generalization and somewhat due to lower population in Canada. It probably also only applies in relation to populated areas of the U.S. And the stereo-type of Canadians not being friendly is just that a stereotype, we are just more laid back than the NY area where my cousins live.

 

[white is right]

Pitbull, I know that many blacks see whites as the enemy and that is the problem. Many hold grudges from the past in my opinion. However, there is nothing we can do at this point except stop appeasing them and giving them special rights. That is why I am on this site, b/c in athletics it is the most blatant.

Martin Luther Kings speech about being colour blind does not apply to the world we live in. It is a sociological fact that you automatically notice outer characteristics like race/ gender/ disability etc. In American History Lincoln's plan to start a free black colony after slavery was not installed and segregation has ended. We can't go back. The only things American whites can do, is things like change our immigration policies to stay in the majority and try to build peace. You can be fair without appeasing. I think other groups would respect us more for standing up for ourselves as every other group seems to do!

I found this site b/c of the ridiculous discrimination Jesse Lumsden faced, as a Canuck it woke me up to the American sports caste system which is much stronger than in Canada. When I researched this issue it baffled me how a bias system this strong can exist, with most American whites knowing nothing about it. I have found numerous college athletes that were discriminated against. Believe me more Canadians get it than Americans, so if you are saying liberalism is the cause of the American anti-white system I wouldn't entirely agree. Canada is more liberal, but we don't have the guilt complex problem that Americans have toward blacks which is part of the appeasment problem! Canada has less minorities also. It is actually easier to discuss race in Canada than the U.S . In my opinion people are less worried about law suits and getting fired for racial prejudice issues. Believe me there are less civil lawsuits in Canada...People acually deal with things here on a more personal level in our economy although that is a bit of a generalization and somewhat due to lower population in Canada. It probably also only applies in relation to populated areas of the U.S. And the stereo-type of Canadians not being friendly is just that a stereotype, we are just more laid back than the NY area where my cousins live.

In Canada pro scouts are more open thinking for the CFL, maybe it's because they know they have to recruit more diamonds in the rough. That could be why the black qb started in the CFL and the white tailback isn't a near extinct species.

 

[PitBull]

TJR,

I'm curious--do people in Canada who file civil law suits and lose have to
pay the legal fees for both parties?

Also, I very much appreciate the Canadian viewpoint. Sometimes its easy
to think the way things work here in America is more or less universal to
all prodominantly white countries. BTW, I would think canadians would
be more friendly than many here, it being less populated.

I don't know much about the CFL either, but it always struck me as a
league that was FAR more white than the NFL. It may be that with all the
non-white immigration into Canada in recent years, this approach to
white athletes may change. I sure hope not.

I enjoy your posts, TJR, though I think at the elite level that there is little
racial difference in raw physical performance between most athletes
which would justify the Caste System. I'm glad you are aboard. Its great
to tussle a bit! Keep posting!

 

[foreverfree]

I wish for a return to the Vince Lombardi Era "When Pride Still Mattered." That is a very good book that posters should read. It is about an era where work ethic, your team, and the coach were respected!

I read WPSM. I was shocked to learn therein about Vince's homosexual brother, who was living in (where else) San Francisco while his brother's Packers were ascendant. But what else can you expect in a book by a Washington Post writer?

John