Alpha Male
Mentor
I wasn't impressed with Rashad'd speed. He barely moved but looked mobile in comparison to Whitehead who just stood there with his feet in cement blocks. Oh btw, what time is this show on and what night??
Not so TUF
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White Shogun
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TUF regular time is 11:00 PM, Monday nights, Spike TV.
White_Savage
Mentor
JD074 said:
From what I've seen in their respective fights, I think Petrezulli would K.O. him. I know he'd at least make it a war, in any cse.
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Guest
Guest
JD074 said:
Seth would win if they fought. Rashad has only won his two matches because of his opponents not wanting to fight. They have about a dozen punches thrown beetween the two of them.
Anyway, in the preview for next weeks upcoming episode, they show Rashad looking really upset with his arm in a sling. They also say that a 'previously eliminated fighter' will be returning. It looks like Rahsad is injured and can't continue.
My guess is he tripped on his way out of the octagon and hurt himself, because Whitehead sure didn't do anything that would cause an injury.
***Spoiler Alert***</font>
Another win for Luke Cummo, knocking out Sam Morgan. First he had him wobbly with a punch, and then eventually finished him with a knee. Excellent fight.
They have all the match-ups set now. It seems like they've greased the way, intentionally or not, for Joe Stevenson and Rashad Evans to make it to the final matches. Especially Stevenson; they have him matched up against either Jason Flue or the Irish guy he already beat (he's an alternate because of Jason's injuries.) Jason has 33 stitches on his face, and is very skinny. I like the guy, and he fought a great fight earlier, and I'd like to see him win, but the likely situation is that Stevenson will physically overpower him.
Meanwhile, Evans will fight that one guy with the goatee (I don't know his name) [Jardine] and Seth will fight Brad. I haven't seen Brad and the goatee guy [Jardine] fight; what's your guys' opinions of them? Any good? I was somewhat hoping for a Seth/ Rashad fight because I saw Seth and I know he'll land some punches and kicks. They showed some brief clips of the upcoming fight with Evans and the other guy [Jardine] and they describe it as a tough fight. One shot showed the other guy [Jardine] with a bloody face. It's very conceivable that Evans will win his third fight and go all the way to the finals. This really pisses me off. Oh well.
Edit: Thanks, Panzer. I went ahead and put Jardine's name in my post now that I know his name. Edited by: JD074
Another win for Luke Cummo, knocking out Sam Morgan. First he had him wobbly with a punch, and then eventually finished him with a knee. Excellent fight.
They have all the match-ups set now. It seems like they've greased the way, intentionally or not, for Joe Stevenson and Rashad Evans to make it to the final matches. Especially Stevenson; they have him matched up against either Jason Flue or the Irish guy he already beat (he's an alternate because of Jason's injuries.) Jason has 33 stitches on his face, and is very skinny. I like the guy, and he fought a great fight earlier, and I'd like to see him win, but the likely situation is that Stevenson will physically overpower him.
Meanwhile, Evans will fight that one guy with the goatee (I don't know his name) [Jardine] and Seth will fight Brad. I haven't seen Brad and the goatee guy [Jardine] fight; what's your guys' opinions of them? Any good? I was somewhat hoping for a Seth/ Rashad fight because I saw Seth and I know he'll land some punches and kicks. They showed some brief clips of the upcoming fight with Evans and the other guy [Jardine] and they describe it as a tough fight. One shot showed the other guy [Jardine] with a bloody face. It's very conceivable that Evans will win his third fight and go all the way to the finals. This really pisses me off. Oh well.
Edit: Thanks, Panzer. I went ahead and put Jardine's name in my post now that I know his name. Edited by: JD074
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Guest
Guest
JD074 said:
His name is Keith Jardine, 7-1-1 record. He should be able to beat Evans, but then again, Mike should have as well.
Seth Petruzelli vs Brad Imes is very one sided in favor on Seth, IMO. Brad is rather new, with a 3-0 record. Seth needs to avoid being pushed around by the much bigger Imes though. Seth should be able to pull out a victory here.
I see the HW finals being Jardine vs Petruzelli. I havn't seen Jardine fight yet, but I have heard he is pretty good. I'll go with Petruzelli though.
WW finals, I see Stevenson and obviously Cummo. Stevenson will probably over power him and GNP out a victory. Cummo is very good though, I can see him giving him a good fight, he is 4-1 with his only loss coming on a UD to season 1 TUF fighter Koscheck. I heard that he almost knocked Koscheck out with a knee in that fight.
Colonel Callan
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Did Mike choke, or was he told to choke? I'm only half joking. Of course,
I'm always suspicious, and wouldn't doubt that there could be some
interest in making things a little easier for the bruthah. I would hope not,
but you know the media. The only way this sport could make it "big time"
like boxing - in their eyes - is if blacks and browns were dominating. But
it isn't happening.
I'm always suspicious, and wouldn't doubt that there could be some
interest in making things a little easier for the bruthah. I would hope not,
but you know the media. The only way this sport could make it "big time"
like boxing - in their eyes - is if blacks and browns were dominating. But
it isn't happening.
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Guest
Guest
Colonel Callan said:
No chance of that in my opinion. Mike was/is Matt Hughes' good friend. He was favored by many to win it all and it would not be a good move on the UFC's part to put a weaker opponent through to the fianls where he may put on a bad fight. Or even worse, sqweak out a victory, get the contract, and do horrible in his PPV UFC fights.
He just choked.
I agree that Whitehead simply performed very poorly. I also agree with Colonel's general notion that black participation in a sport gives it an air of "legitimacy" in the eyes of the media. If hockey, for example, were 70 or 80 percent black I'm sure they would have a different take on it.
Edited by: JD074
Edited by: JD074
White_Savage
Mentor
If I were going to work a match, I'd make it look alot better than the Whitehead/Evans fiasco!
Johnny
Newbie
Colonel Callan said:
I'd have to sat NO, the fight was not fixed. For no other reason that the UFC's track record, at least on the show, is good. Thisin the sense that ALL of the decisions made by the judges so far have been fair. This unlike boxing. as an example, the contender rematches were Anthony Bosante and Peter Manfrado JR both clearly won their fights, yet the judges gave the decision to their opponents.
On a somewhat positive note, Unlike Tom and especially Mike Whitehead, Keith Jardine put up a good fight against Rashad Evans. Keith still lost, but at least he lost with honor, making it a close fight.
My nightmare is coming true... three wins for Evans (although only one real fight,) all against white fighters (although only one with heart,) and he advances to the final match. Can't stand it. If Jardine could've just stayed on his feet he would've won. He was definitely "out-striking" Evans, smacking his left eye completely shut, but Evans got him on the ground in the first and third rounds, landed some elbows, and that sealed the deal.
I wasn't particularly impressed with how Evans was digging his elbow into Jardine's cuts. I'm not saying it was wrong, but he was clearly intending to open up the cuts. I would prefer to see a knock out or submission than some cut skin- unless it's a really gnarly gash like what Belfort did to that black guy. That was cool, I must admit! But typically that's not all that interesting to me. Regardless, he won. Again. Give credit where credit is due.
Evans was clearly physically stronger than Whitehead and Jardine; the way he defended the takedowns against the former, and took down the latter. He simply physically overwhelmed them. This fits the stereotype of the black athlete being strong/ explosive/ athletic/ physically overpowering. That's what makes this so frustrating to me. I could tolerate it if he was very skilled, but physically underwhelming, for that wouldn't conform to the mystique of the superior black athlete. (Think Steve McNair vs. Michael Vick. I don't like either, but I'll take McNair over Vick any day of the week.) But he appears to have relatively average skill (in my admittedly very layman's opinion) and used his superior strength to dominate his white opponents.
I take comfort in the likelihood that he'll eventually come across someone who's either more skilled or stronger or both. I'll thoroughly enjoy it when someone either physically overpowers him in the ground game (neither Whitehead or Jardine could do so,) or perhaps prevent his takedown attempts and beat the hell out of him (like Jardine was doing whenever he wasn't on his back.)
Go Seth or Brad! Whichever one!!!
I wasn't particularly impressed with how Evans was digging his elbow into Jardine's cuts. I'm not saying it was wrong, but he was clearly intending to open up the cuts. I would prefer to see a knock out or submission than some cut skin- unless it's a really gnarly gash like what Belfort did to that black guy. That was cool, I must admit! But typically that's not all that interesting to me. Regardless, he won. Again. Give credit where credit is due.
Evans was clearly physically stronger than Whitehead and Jardine; the way he defended the takedowns against the former, and took down the latter. He simply physically overwhelmed them. This fits the stereotype of the black athlete being strong/ explosive/ athletic/ physically overpowering. That's what makes this so frustrating to me. I could tolerate it if he was very skilled, but physically underwhelming, for that wouldn't conform to the mystique of the superior black athlete. (Think Steve McNair vs. Michael Vick. I don't like either, but I'll take McNair over Vick any day of the week.) But he appears to have relatively average skill (in my admittedly very layman's opinion) and used his superior strength to dominate his white opponents.
I take comfort in the likelihood that he'll eventually come across someone who's either more skilled or stronger or both. I'll thoroughly enjoy it when someone either physically overpowers him in the ground game (neither Whitehead or Jardine could do so,) or perhaps prevent his takedown attempts and beat the hell out of him (like Jardine was doing whenever he wasn't on his back.)
Go Seth or Brad! Whichever one!!!
White_Savage
Mentor
JD074 said:
I disagree in regards to strength.
Whitehead for instance, had Evans hefted all the way up on his shoulder in the air at one point in their fight, handling him like Matt Hughes does his 170 lbs opposition.
Whiteheads half-hearted takedowns were lacking in form or penetration---you or I could have probably defended them with a good sprawl.
White Shogun
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I'm not about to become an apologist for black athletes, but Evans had to win three fights to advance to the Finals. No other fighter did so.
If the white guys who fought him didn't have the heart or smarts to beat him, then thats their problem. Thats part of fighting. The first two fights disgusted me, with the ineptitude and lack of desire on the part of all the fighters involved. But you can't take away Evans win over Jardine, that was a good, tough fight. And Evans LISTENED to Hugh's instructions from the corner, which inevitably helped him win the fight.
As for digging elbows into the cuts, thats part of fighting, too. Brad Imes did the same, in effect, by continuously punching Seth in his already damaged ear, til blood and pus spurted out of it. You're not fighting smart if you're not going after an obvious injury. Thats like saying you should stop kicking to the leg after you notice that its bruised and swollen and he's ready to collapse. Thats the point, make the other guy submit or quit from an accumulation of pain and injury.
I'm not real hopeful, either, that Imes will beat Evans in the finals. Unless something changes, if Evans fights Imes like he did Jardine, he is going to hand Imes his ass on the way out of the Octagon.
On the other hand, I'm not sure who will win between Stevenson and Cummo. Von Vlue seemed to give Stevenson all he could handle in the stand up. In the post fight, Stevenson said: "Cummo is going down like a blonde on prom night; I'm not standing with that guy," or words to that effect. Great quote, and shows alot of respect for Cummo.
And hand it to both Cummo and Imes. The last two guys picked when the coaches selected their teams at the beginning of the show, and both are in the Finals.
If the white guys who fought him didn't have the heart or smarts to beat him, then thats their problem. Thats part of fighting. The first two fights disgusted me, with the ineptitude and lack of desire on the part of all the fighters involved. But you can't take away Evans win over Jardine, that was a good, tough fight. And Evans LISTENED to Hugh's instructions from the corner, which inevitably helped him win the fight.
As for digging elbows into the cuts, thats part of fighting, too. Brad Imes did the same, in effect, by continuously punching Seth in his already damaged ear, til blood and pus spurted out of it. You're not fighting smart if you're not going after an obvious injury. Thats like saying you should stop kicking to the leg after you notice that its bruised and swollen and he's ready to collapse. Thats the point, make the other guy submit or quit from an accumulation of pain and injury.
I'm not real hopeful, either, that Imes will beat Evans in the finals. Unless something changes, if Evans fights Imes like he did Jardine, he is going to hand Imes his ass on the way out of the Octagon.
On the other hand, I'm not sure who will win between Stevenson and Cummo. Von Vlue seemed to give Stevenson all he could handle in the stand up. In the post fight, Stevenson said: "Cummo is going down like a blonde on prom night; I'm not standing with that guy," or words to that effect. Great quote, and shows alot of respect for Cummo.
And hand it to both Cummo and Imes. The last two guys picked when the coaches selected their teams at the beginning of the show, and both are in the Finals.
White_Savage
Mentor
It's frustrating that TUF basically had a bad roll of the dice when it came to picking out HWs, and this un-extrordinary ******* has managed to get so far on national T.V. because of it. By comparison, look at the depth in the WWs fights.
I'm not counting Imes out either. He was getting beaten up in R1 by Seth's superior technicality in striking, but he didn't let that faze him, no he listened to his corner, came back and used his size, power, and agression to win. I don't think the Rash can throw anything at him that Petruzelli didn't.
Well,they don't seem to have gotten very bad about stopping fights on cuts, and as long as that BS doesn't start, we should be fine. With elbows, knees, and two-ounce gloves in the game, guys are going to be cut alot. But you also see the guy who gets his fist raised in victory wearing a mask of blood a huge percentage of the time.
I'm not counting Imes out either. He was getting beaten up in R1 by Seth's superior technicality in striking, but he didn't let that faze him, no he listened to his corner, came back and used his size, power, and agression to win. I don't think the Rash can throw anything at him that Petruzelli didn't.
Well,they don't seem to have gotten very bad about stopping fights on cuts, and as long as that BS doesn't start, we should be fine. With elbows, knees, and two-ounce gloves in the game, guys are going to be cut alot. But you also see the guy who gets his fist raised in victory wearing a mask of blood a huge percentage of the time.
Johnny
Newbie
White Shogun said:
I was happy to see Rashad Evans win more forthe sake of Matt Hughes than Rashad Evans himself. This victory by Rashad Evans vindicated Matt Hughs as a coach. I honestly believe thatRashad Evans won that fight because of Matt Hugh and his coach.Ialso credit Evans for listening to Matt durring the fight.
I felt soo bad for Matt Hughes after his once favorite student Mike Whithead let him down so much in Mike's one and only fight.How frustrating that must have been for a coach to watch his supposedly top nochfighter, fold like a cheap tent. It was nice to see one of Matt's fighters come through forhim in the next fight. I just hope Brad Imes come through for Matt Hughs in the finals against Rashad Evans.
On a side note, I assume that little Blonde boy who was with Matt HughEs half way through Monday nights episode was his son.What a cute little child. So blonde, so Aryan, I was impressed.Edited by: Johnny
Man, Seth's ear was unbelievable. I've never seen it that bad. Is that why he didn't want to stand up with Brad? Clearly he was winning the fight until he blatantly ignored Franklin by not letting Brad back up. He made a conscious decision to bring the fight to the ground and it didn't work out for him.
Brad won a round on his back (I really enjoyed that) (although apparently one dumb judge gave that round to Seth) and then another with Seth on his back. Hopefully Brad can prevent Rashad's takedowns and ground and pound, and of course take down his opponent. Doesn't look like a great striker at this point, so hopefully he can grapple with Rashad better than Whitehead or Jardine did.
Stevenson vs. Von Flue: It's always funny to see a grappler say that he's going to stand with a striker... until he gets hit a couple of times. Reminded me a little of Ortiz vs. Liddell, except that Liddell prevented the takedowns. Predictable outcome once Stevenson got him on the ground.
Agree 100%.
Except that a cut around the eye could end a fight by referee stoppage. I'm new to all of this, but I've never seen a stoppage due to a mangled ear.
Wouldn't you have loved to see the rest of that Klitschko/ Lewis fight? It was a legitimate fight, Lewis won fair and square. But I would've liked to have seen a little more.
Make the guy quit, I like that.
He did well on the ground against Seth, but clearly Seth was not 100%. It'll be interesting.
Edited by: JD074
Brad won a round on his back (I really enjoyed that) (although apparently one dumb judge gave that round to Seth) and then another with Seth on his back. Hopefully Brad can prevent Rashad's takedowns and ground and pound, and of course take down his opponent. Doesn't look like a great striker at this point, so hopefully he can grapple with Rashad better than Whitehead or Jardine did.
Stevenson vs. Von Flue: It's always funny to see a grappler say that he's going to stand with a striker... until he gets hit a couple of times. Reminded me a little of Ortiz vs. Liddell, except that Liddell prevented the takedowns. Predictable outcome once Stevenson got him on the ground.
White Shogun said:
Agree 100%.
White Shogun said:
Except that a cut around the eye could end a fight by referee stoppage. I'm new to all of this, but I've never seen a stoppage due to a mangled ear.
Wouldn't you have loved to see the rest of that Klitschko/ Lewis fight? It was a legitimate fight, Lewis won fair and square. But I would've liked to have seen a little more.
White Shogun said:
Make the guy quit, I like that.
White Shogun said:
He did well on the ground against Seth, but clearly Seth was not 100%. It'll be interesting.
Edited by: JD074
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Guest
Guest
Well, I was completely wrong in my predictions for the HWs.
Imes and Evans? Who'd have picked them?
Anyways, Lets hope Imes can push Rashad around, he has a huge size advantage, I hope he uses it.
Imes and Evans? Who'd have picked them?
Anyways, Lets hope Imes can push Rashad around, he has a huge size advantage, I hope he uses it.