Galloping Ghost?

[Guest]

Red Grange had it, as did Hugh McElhenny. Dickie Post had a little of it, as does Tim Dwight. It is rare however to see a fast, white, elusive player with ball under arm in the NFL. Keith Lincoln the old Chargers had a little burst ahd could cutback. :"Jaguar" Jon Arnet the old Ram could scoot. Then there's.....mmmmm?


It's not the big mystery some try to make it out to be, actually it's very obvious that the black athlete has a body more adaptat running fast with agility. Hell just open your eyes!


No it's not culture. Culture does not produce guys 220 poundsand bigger,with blazing speed (Bo Jackson, Curtis Dickey,Herschel Walker) and tall 6-2 or taller with world class speed (Tommie Smith, Steve Williams,Carl Lewis). Go ahead give me the names of those white athletes who compare to those I mentioned. It can't be done because there aren't any.


Then there's the old..."white players are told they can't play running back...etc etc etc." How about those states with few black players like Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Iowa, Kansas? There white guys have to sprint and play running back, yet we aren't seeing any great whitesprinters or running backs coming out of there . Yes there was Mark Lutz and John Riggins but that was a long time ago.


I have a lot of black friends, and it's very obvious to me they are simply built differently. It's those physical differences that gives them the edge in anything requiring explosive speed and agility. It's just that simple!


Tiny Jamaica has had more great sprinters than all of "white" Europe and China combined. Why?





There is no white Howlin' Wolf or John Lee Hooker ............same thing!

 

[SteveB]

You need to read a little more on this site. There are numerous examples stated here of white athletes with equal athletic ability. This is not a black/white issue, it is stereotype issue that is keeping capable white athletes from getting an equal shot to fame and fortune.

 

[Guest]

You need to read a little more on this site. There are numerous examples stated here of white athletes with equal athletic ability. This is not a black/white issue, it is stereotype issue that is keeping capable white athletes from getting an equal shot to fame and fortune.

When my 11 year old son comes home with a little black kid and says.."dad this is Tyrone, he's the fastest kid in school"....it brings back memories of my school days, when a little black kid named Milton Edwards was the fastest kid in school. Why pretend this isn't reality?


Blacks are simply faster, it has nothing to do with anything other than that "fact."


Reality comes first, then we can worry about all that other stuff.

 

[White_Savage]

"I have a lot of black friends, and it's very obvious to me they are simply built differently. It's those physical differences that gives them the edge in anything requiring explosive speed and agility. It's just that simple!"

...the edge in everything except Ultimate Fighting, Hockey,any form of grappling, any position or sport whatsoever that involves throwing ability, and the black "speed"edge seems noticably absent is such lightning fast sports as fencing and shooting. In short, while you may have a point about the relative sprinting ability, that seems about the ONLY scientifically discernable athletic advantage the ******* has over the black, and the white has the advantages of greater average strength and endurance to balance it. To say nothing of the mental advantages of whites. Is sprinting ability the ONLY thing in football? Or could, like, actually catching the ball most of the time also be a good thing?

And your musical comparsions, like comparisons on dance, are absurd because music and dancing are not something which can be empirically judged to any great extent. Further, as I mentioned on a dancing thread, if we let the ******* define what "music" and "dancing" are, then it is no surprise when ******** turn out to be better at ******* music and ******* dancing than whites, however, whites have are the main inventors and refiners of ACTUAL music and dancing in the Western world. And theres plenty of white men who have the sheer "musical athleticism" to play fast and intricate. Even forgetting Rock and Metal players, ever listen to Blue Grass when they really get going? That's FAST my friend.

 

[Guest]

"I have a lot of black friends, and it's very obvious to me they are simply built differently. It's those physical differences that gives them the edge in anything requiring explosive speed and agility. It's just that simple!"

...the edge in everything except Ultimate Fighting, Hockey,any form of grappling, any position or sport whatsoever that involves throwing ability, and the black "speed"edge seems noticably absent is such lightning fast sports as fencing and shooting. In short, while you may have a point about the relative sprinting ability, that seems about the ONLY scientifically discernable athletic advantage the ******* has over the black, and the white has the advantages of greater average strength and endurance to balance it. To say nothing of the mental advantages of whites. Is sprinting ability the ONLY thing in football? Or could, like, actually catching the ball most of the time also be a good thing?

And your musical comparsions, like comparisons on dance, are absurd because music and dancing are not something which can be empirically judged to any great extent. Further, as I mentioned on a dancing thread, if we let the ******* define what "music" and "dancing" are, then it is no surprise when ******** turn out to be better at ******* music and ******* dancing than whites, however, whites have are the main inventors and refiners of ACTUAL music and dancing in the Western world. And theres plenty of white men who have the sheer "musical athleticism" to play fast and intricate. Even forgetting Rock and Metal players, ever listen to Blue Grass when they really get going? That's FAST my friend.

Not arguing that whites don't have certain skills.





I'm only talking.....


Basketball


Running back


Defensive back


Wide Receiver


Tight end


400 IH


110hh


Long jump


100m


200m


400m


4x1


4x2


4x4


As far as music goes, ya might want to do a little research on where did rock and roll originate? You'll end up kneedeep in them old southern country blues. Read up on Clapton, Dylan,The Stones. Joplin, Hendrix etc etc etc and see who influensed them.Edited by: Brutal

 

[SteveB]

I was always the fastest kid in my school, yet I was never recruited to play football except for some JUCO schools. I walked on at a Div 1A and made the team as a DB, yet never got a shot to play more than special teams and scout team. I even had coaches tell me that it was because of my skin color. I was in the top four fastest guys on the team. Maybe I am not built like the typical "white man". My story is not unlike many other white kids out there. There is racism against whites in sports, talk to any white kid out there trying to get PT on a Div 1 program.

 

[Guest]

I was always the fastest kid in my school, yet I was never recruited to play football except for some JUCO schools. I walked on at a Div 1A and made the team as a DB, yet never got a shot to play more than special teams and scout team. I even had coaches tell me that it was because of my skin color. I was in the top four fastest guys on the team. Maybe I am not built like the typical "white man". My story is not unlike many other white kids out there. There is racism against whites in sports, talk to any white kid out there trying to get PT on a Div 1 program.

At what point does it dawn on you SteveB, that I'm not some kid on the computer? I ran track and played football, I 'm also a track/football historian, who can take you back to Lon Myers and Red Grange, so save it. If you have the ability, you will be there, just ask Jeremy Wariner and Luke Staley. So cool the crap!


This weekend we have the Cal state high school track championships, are you trying to tell me if some white kid ran a 10.31/20.76 and won both sprints USC/UCLA wouldn't try to snag him? Hell yes they would! USC has a white fullback right now from my neck of the woods, who was highly recruited coming out of high school. If a white kid can play he'll be there.....................trust me!Edited by: Brutal

 

[bigunreal]

Brutal,



Since you are sold on the "blacks are naturally faster" argument, do
you subscribe to the stereotype that "blacks are naturally dumber"
argument as well? There is at least as much evidence for that.



As for your musical references, the whites who made modern rock &
roll have long maintained that various black entertainers "influenced"
them. The problem is, whatever "influence" those black entertainers had
is not apparent in the music subseuquently produced by those whites.
For instance, Bob Dylan claimed to have been strongly influenced by a
black convict named "Leadbelly," who somehow was able to produce
records and become renowned, despite his criminal tendencies, back in
the 1930s-era, when "racism" was rampant. I have heard some of
"Leadbelly's" recordings. They are horrible, and if Dylan was
"influenced" by him in any way at all, it was in his manner of not
being able to sing very well. Dylan's other great "influence" was
Little Richard. Yeah, "Tooti Frutti" certainly impacted Dylan's music.
That one is too ridiculous to discuss. Little Richard also supposedly
influenced the Beatles. Other than a few early songs like "Long Tall
Sally," whatever "influence" he had on them was quickly forgotten, as
they progessed to levels that he could never hope to attain.



I thnk that almost all white artists are prone to make these kinds of
politically correct claims. It is all part of the very obvious campaign
to ascribe all musical beginnings to black peformers. John Cougar
Mellencamp once claimed to have been "influenced" by James Brown. I
wonder why neither he, nor any other successful white performer, ever
claims to have been "influenced" by Gary Lewis & The Playboys, or
Tommy James & The Shondells, or Leslie Gore, or Ricky Nelson, or
Gene Pitney, or any other white performer (except maybe the Beatles). I
guess all of them were just a little too "white" to be significant
entertainers.

 

[SteveB]

If you are so knowledgeable then you have probably heard of Trey Griffin here in Texas. He and Debryan Blanton were the top two high school sprinters in Texas in 2001. Both had identical PB of 10.30 in the 100m. Yet Blanton, who is black, gets a track scholarship to Oklahoma and goes on be one of the top sprinters in the Big XII. Griffen, who is white, gets no track offers from any major schools, and goes on to SMU to play football and ride the bench for 4 years. You want more examples?

 

[Guest]

Brutal,

Since you are sold on the "blacks are naturally faster" argument, do you subscribe to the stereotype that "blacks are naturally dumber" argument as well? There is at least as much evidence for that.

As for your musical references, the whites who made modern rock & roll have long maintained that various black entertainers "influenced" them. The problem is, whatever "influence" those black entertainers had is not apparent in the music subseuquently produced by those whites. For instance, Bob Dylan claimed to have been strongly influenced by a black convict named "Leadbelly," who somehow was able to produce records and become renowned, despite his criminal tendencies, back in the 1930s-era, when "racism" was rampant. I have heard some of "Leadbelly's" recordings. They are horrible, and if Dylan was "influenced" by him in any way at all, it was in his manner of not being able to sing very well. Dylan's other great "influence" was Little Richard. Yeah, "Tooti Frutti" certainly impacted Dylan's music. That one is too ridiculous to discuss. Little Richard also supposedly influenced the Beatles. Other than a few early songs like "Long Tall Sally," whatever "influence" he had on them was quickly forgotten, as they progessed to levels that he could never hope to attain.

I thnk that almost all white artists are prone to make these kinds of politically correct claims. It is all part of the very obvious campaign to ascribe all musical beginnings to black peformers. John Cougar Mellencamp once claimed to have been "influenced" by James Brown. I wonder why neither he, nor any other successful white performer, ever claims to have been "influenced" by Gary Lewis & The Playboys, or Tommy James & The Shondells, or Leslie Gore, or Ricky Nelson, or Gene Pitney, or any other white performer (except maybe the Beatles). I guess all of them were just a little too "white" to be significant entertainers.

I'm here to talk "athlectics", and it now appears "music". Two areas that I'm exceptionally well read in, and have played the sports and even played in a band. I'm a harmonica man. I'm not at all concerned or interested in getting off into..."so who is dumber?" Who cares? I sure as hell don't! Where I work there are just as many dumbass whites as anyone else...ok?


Lead Belly (Huddie Ledbetter) was one of America's greatest musical treasures. If you think he was horrible, you don't know music. He was right there with Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger as far as folklegends goes. Them old blues from guys like Charley Patton, Blind Lemon Jefferson, Blind Blake, Furry Lewis had a major major impact on what came afterwards. Ya see they influensed guys like Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf. John Lee Hooker, Jimmy Reed etc etc.


Check it out....


The Rolling Stones got that name from an old Muddy Waters tune..."Rolling Stone"


When The Beatles first landed in America, John Lennon was asked.."what's the first thing you want to do now that you're here?" John replied.."meet Muddy Waters"


Elvis's first recordings were covers of delta bluesman Big Boy Crudup. His "Hound Dog" was a cover of Big Mama Thornton tune.


Pink Floyd got their name from bluesmen...PINK Anderson and FLOYD Council.


Then there's Robert Johnson!!!!!!!!!!


Eric Burdon has admitted that Big Joe Turner was a big influense on him. Janis Joplin has said.."if not for Bessie Smith...............


Yep I'm a student of American music, so please believe me the blacks need a big "thank you!"





Oh yeah Jimmie Rodgers "The Father Of Country Music", guess who he says influensed him........yep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






Edited by: Brutal

 

[Guest]

If you are so knowledgeable then you have probably heard of Trey Griffin here in Texas. He and Debryan Blanton were the top two high school sprinters in Texas in 2001. Both had identical PB of 10.30 in the 100m. Yet Blanton, who is black, gets a track scholarship to Oklahoma and goes on be one of the top sprinters in the Big XII. Griffen, who is white, gets no track offers from any major schools, and goes on to SMU to play football and ride the bench for 4 years. You want more examples?

Griffin was out of Lockhart High, where he usually ran in that 10.50 range. His 10.30 was not the norm. Talk to me about Wariner. Why didn't he get the shaft?

 

[SteveB]

Griffin always ran in the 10.3 range in the big meets where he was up against the top sprinters (ie Texas Relays). The reason many of his times were in the 10.5 range is because Lockhart is 3A and he coasted to easy wins against 3A competition. Ryan Varner is another top high school sprinter down here who ran a 21.15 200m this past spring. We'll see what kind of track offers he gets. Wariner didn't get shafted because he is a 400m guy and "blacks don't as much advantage in the longer sprints" (according to the stereotype).

 

[Guest]

Griffin always ran in the 10.3 range in the big meets where he was up against the top sprinters (ie Texas Relays). The reason many of his times were in the 10.5 range is because Lockhart is 3A and he coasted to easy wins against 3A competition. Ryan Varner is another top high school sprinter down here who ran a 21.15 200m this past spring. We'll see what kind of track offers he gets. Wariner didn't get shafted because he is a 400m guy and "blacks don't as much advantage in the longer sprints" (according to the stereotype).

Where did you get the idea blacks don't dominate the 400 here in America? So tell me since 1964 what white 400 man has ran on any American 4x4 team? Wariner had "real" skill and everyone knew it. A 21.15 is not all that special.


You are familiar with UCLAS's Matt Bruno right?


I know a lot of football and track coach's and nobody cares if they are green blue or purple if they can play/run.

 

[SteveB]

Yes, I have heard of Bruno. Why isn't he at UCLA anymore? I heard he was kicked off of the team for violating team rules, which further reinforces that a caste system exists. A black athlete can rape or steal and the school will cover it up. They condone bad behavior from black athletes, but if a white athlete breaks any rule, he is kicked out.

 

[White Shogun]

Welcome to Caste Football, Brutal.



It only took you one morning and ten posts to reframe and reiterate
every tired argument that has been made on this site regarding
the superiority of blacks and the black male in particular. Dancing,
music, athletics.. ad nauseum. I'm sorry that you feel like a
second-class citizen and athlete compared to your darker-skinned
melanin-blessed neighbors.



I don't know if you have already done so, but I encourage you to browse
the site and in particular read threads in which "Black Guy" has
posted. You'll find these same arguments and a wealth of answers
already available for you to read and ponder.

 

[Guest]

Yes, I have heard of Bruno. Why isn't he at UCLA anymore? I heard he was kicked off of the team for violating team rules, which further reinforces that a caste system exists. A black athlete can rape or steal and the school will cover it up. They condone bad behavior from black athletes, but if a white athlete breaks any rule, he is kicked out.

Hahahahahaha!!!!.......you can't be serious! I live in central California. This area of the country has given the track world these Olympians.


Tommie Smith Lemoore


Leamon King Delano


Randy Williams Fresno


Maxie Parks Fresno


Rafer Johnson Kingsburgh


Bob Mathias Tulare


All are black but Mathias. Then there is sprinter Darel Newman out of Reedley. He is the inly white guy to ever beat Bob Hayes. He went to Fresno State. Nobody here in the valley cares about your color. If you can play/run you're in.....period! What I'mIying?


What happens when a big, powerful white guys with 4.35 speed shows up on the scene? What he's told "you're white you can't play".....hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give me a break!

 

[Guest]

Welcome to Caste Football, Brutal.

It only took you one morning and ten posts to reframe and reiterate every tired argument that has been made on this site regarding the superiority of blacks and the black male in particular. Dancing, music, athletics.. ad nauseum. I'm sorry that you feel like a second-class citizen and athlete compared to your darker-skinned melanin-blessed neighbors.

I don't know if you have already done so, but I encourage you to browse the site and in particular read threads in which "Black Guy" has posted. You'll find these same arguments and a wealth of answers already available for you to read and ponder.

Thanks for the welcome.


I've been into sports all my life. I was running as soon as I could walk. There is nothing here that will be said I haven't heard many times. I've read it all......trust me!


When we start seeing white athletes with moves and agility like any of the great NFL backs today, then the white backs have an argument, until that happens there is nothing that can be said. Reality is reality. When some white guy starts beating the black guys in the sprints, then the white sprinters have an argument. That ain't happening!


I deal in reality, not a bunch of crap. That reality tells me the cheetah is the fastest cat, the greyhound the fastest dog and the black athlete the fasstest sprinter.

 

[SteveB]

"What happens when a big, powerful white guys with 4.35 speed shows up on the scene? What he's told "you're white you can't play".....hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Give me a break!"

Yes. Eric Crouch runs a 4.4 40 and doesn't get a legitimate shot to play in the NFL. Kevin Kasper goes to the NFL combine runs a 4.42 40 time, has a 42" vertical, and set three combine records for agility tests, yet he hasn't been given a fair shot at playing in the NFL. I could go on but all of these guys have been discussed in depth on this board and you can go through and read it.

 

[Guest]

"What happens when a big, powerful white guys with 4.35 speed shows up on the scene? What he's told "you're white you can't play".....hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Give me a break!"

Yes. Eric Crouch runs a 4.4 40 and doesn't get a legitimate shot to play in the NFL. Kevin Kasper goes to the NFL combine runs a 4.42 40 time, has a 42" vertical, and set three combine records for agility tests, yet he hasn't been given a fair shot at playing in the NFL. I could go on but all of these guys have been discussed in depth on this board and you can go through and read it.

Crouch is not a big, powerful guy. He's a little QB who has never proved he can play any other position.


Kasper did what in college?


Are you telling me a 6-2 230 pound white running back with quicks and speed won't get a shot at playing running back? Please don't use a little QB in this. What about John Riggins? How about Larry Czonka? What about Marv Hubbard? Talk to me about Jim Taylor. Then there's Walt Garrison, Ronnie Bull, Rocky Blier,Ken Willard.


Have you never noticed that whites guys just don't have that quickness and agility? You've never noticed how different Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk, Tomlinson, Holmes run than white backs?

 

[SteveB]

Kasper was a walk-on at Iowa (ie had ability, but not recruited)and left as a two year starter with most of Iowa's receiving records.

 

[Guest]

Kasper was a walk-on at Iowa (ie had ability, but not recruited)and left as a two year starter with most of Iowa's receiving records.

I noticed you didn't answer my question. So you've never noticed the obvious?

 

[SteveB]

Is this the "hip flexibility" argument? Usually when someone points out white athletes that have superior 40 yd dash times or vertical leap, people like you change the arguement to "whites run stiff" or "whites don't have flexible hips" as an excuse why they can't play. Craig James (before his neck injury) was just as fluid a running back as any black back. I wouldn't call Jerome Bettis a fluid running back like Barry Sanders, but he gets the job done.

BTW, can you name any big powerful black guys at this years NFL combine that ran under 4.4 sec? Matt Jones is the only one, oh, but he is white.

 

[Guest]

Is this the "hip flexibility" argument? Usually when someone points out white athletes that have superior 40 yd dash times or vertical leap, people like you change the arguement to "whites run stiff" or "whites don't have flexible hips" as an excuse why they can't play. Craig James (before his neck injury) was just as fluid a running back as any black back. I wouldn't call Jerome Bettis a fluid running back like Barry Sanders, but he gets the job done.

BTW, can you name any big powerful black guys at this years NFL combine that ran under 4.4 sec? Matt Jones is the only one, oh, but he is white.

Craig James was not as fluid asany black guy, hell at SMU he was overshadowed by Eric Dickerson who is as fluid as they come.


There are a few national caliber sprinters coming out of college this season. Stanford Routt and Jerome Mathis. Both have ran sub 20.50 200's. Both would blow Jones totally away.


Please don't tell me you want to start talking black NFL speed vs white NFL speed. I can only name about a few dozen black guys with sub 10.30 speed and no white guys.


Here are just the Olympians


Ollie Matson


Bo Roberson


Bob Hayes


Ron Brown


Sam Graddy


Gerald Tinker


Larry Burton


Johnny Jones


Henry Carr


Here are your white Olympians in the NFL.........Edited by: Brutal

 

[SteveB]

Again you can't answer the question. All of the guys you list are small track guys. You ask if a big white guy that ran a 4.35 were out there, he would be playing. Well Jones ran a 4.39 and is 6'6" 242 lbs. We'll see next year if he gets to play or not. But you can't name a single big fast black guy (I am talking 230 lbs or more) that can run a 4.35, because they don't exist.

 

[White Shogun]

You're riding a dead horse, Brutal.



Black guys are faster... blah blah blah.. thats why they're running backs and wide receivers... blah blah blah.



The NFL's all-time rushing leader was sloooooow.. he ran a 4.7 40.



The NFL's all-time # 1 wider reciever ran a 4.6 40.



Nobody every accused Emmitt Smith of faking anybody out of their shoes, nor did Jerry Rice.



Its been said already - yes, speed is good but it isn't the
number one factor in determing who has the makings of a great football
player.



And even if we concede that black men are faster, there is still no
excusing the fact that there are no starting white cornerbacks or white
running backs in the entire NFL. Black people make up 12% of the
population of the United States. There is no way in hell, statistically
speaking, that in that remaining 88%, there isn't ONE white, Asian, or
Hispanic person who can play either of those positions better than the
black player who currently holds it. No way.



And again, the question begs - do you believe that the black race is
superior to all other races? Are blacks superior physical specimens,
and equal in intellect?


Do the math - physical superiority { 1 > 0 }, intellectual equality { 1 = 1 } = {1+1} > {1=0}



In other words, Blacks are superior to all other races because of their
vastly superior physical abilities and intellectual capacity that is
equal to all other races, is that correct?



You say that you observe the obvious: blacks are better athletes. But
if someone asks you if they are equal in intellect, you demur, and I
quote: "so who is dumber?" Who cares? I sure as hell don't! Where I
work there are just as many dumbass whites as anyone else...ok?"



Well, why don't you care? You are so quick to succumb and admit to
black athletic superiority. You are so convinced of it, you will even
take the time out of your busy day to come to a site dedicated to white
athletes to debate it. But you don't care at all about
intellectual achievement?

Edited by: White Shogun