Excuses for black QB’s

Bart

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
4,329
Column by Jason Cole of Yahoo explains why black QB's perform poorly. It's not their fault. Goofy article.


[url]http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AgKEi08vEA7bajqeYXUnk2 M5nYcB?slug=jc-notes122106&prov=yhoo&type=lgns [/url]


In particular, Gandy has a pretty interesting take on why black quarterbacks such as current teammate Michael Vick undergo so much public scrutiny. Gandy has watched teammates - Vick, Aaron Brooks in New Orleans, Kordell Stewart in Pittsburgh, Tony Banks in St. Louis and Dameyune Craig at Auburn - operate under a different set of standards.


Gandy, who could have a post-football future in anything from broadcast to working as a team executive, has seen the same situation play out from team to team.


"When fans and coaches see a black quarterback, it's automatic that they expect to see a guy who is more athletic," Gandy said. "So what happens when you get around the goal line or you get in those situations where most quarterbacks are taught to throw it away or get rid of the ball for a short gain if the play breaks down? The black quarterback is told, 'Do something, make a big play.'


"That's where you see a lot of Michael's sacks come from. He's supposed to make something happen in a situation where it's probably not going to work. You see where the coaches and fans are expecting that, but it's not really teaching him the right way to play.


"It's all about the tutelage they get from the time they're in college on. I saw that with Dameyune Craig. He was told, 'If your first read isn't there, take off and run.' Do you think that anyone ever told Peyton Manning or Tom Brady to do that? Again, it's about the tutelage they get."


Over the years, Vick, Brooks and Daunte Culpepper have consistently been sacked more than the likes of Manning and Brady. Vick has been sacked 39 times this season - one more combined than Brady (24) and Manning (14) - which is just under three per game. That's an odd number for someone who's seemingly hard to catch.


Furthermore, mobile quarterbacks such as Vick, Brooks and Culpepper have consistently had worse interception rates than Manning and Brady.


To Vick's credit, he is showing some progress this season. He has 19 touchdown passes, putting him one short of his first 20-touchdown season of his six-year career. Also, Vick's TD-interception ratio of 19-11 is the second best of his career to the 16-8 mark he had in his second season, which was also his first as a starter.


Vick has done that while also setting an NFL record for rushing yards (990) by a quarterback. He is a virtual lock to surpass 1,000 yards rushing and is currently averaging a stunning 8.5 yards per carry, meaning that Vick also appears to be picking the optimal times to take off.


Is that progress enough for a player of Vick's caliber? No, but the problem may be that he's being asked to do too much. Unlike Manning, for instance, Vick has played in an offense that has constantly changed. He began his career under Dan Reeves. Now, under coach Jim Mora, the offense has morphed from allowing Vick to be a runner to trying to rein him in as a passer to again being a more freelance offense.


Manning, by comparison, has played in only one offense with the same offensive coordinator (Tom Moore) his entire career. Moreover, Manning has played while surrounded by great skill players the entire time. The Falcons have struggled to find consistent receivers, although a significant share of the burden falls on Vick.


"The offense here has been different over the years," said Gandy, who was acquired by the Falcons via trade in the offseason. "Sometimes they've tried to make Michael work with a certain offense and sometimes they've tried to make the offense work to his skills. I think we've gotten back to making it work around his skills this year and he's made progress."


Gandy said one of the biggest problems the Falcons have had in running a conventional offense is that the timing is always off because Vick sets up so quickly. In most offenses, by the time the quarterback sets up on a standard three-step drop, the wide receiver is coming out of his break, ready to get open. With Vick, the receivers are still in their patterns. The problem impacts the entire timing of the offense, leading to further problems. On top of that, the Falcons wide receivers have had way too many drops this season.


"I see why people get on Michael, but there have been stretches where our receivers haven't made the catches. We had a lot of drops and the receivers have to help him out," Gandy said.
 

PitBull

Guru
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
448
In the NFL, the role of the QB is to deliver the ball to the other players on
the offense, while not turning it over or taking a sack. This is why the
drop back passers are far and away the best QB's in the league.

That's not to say a quick pair of feet can't come in handy from time to
time, like Seve Young. But that should be the last option, not the first or
second.

Another stupid thing about making QB's into running backs is that the
QB's get injured a lot more often. Vick got his ankle broken a few years
back, and sat out most of the season. He also has gone out multple
times with other injuries, like bruised ribs. Same with McNair and now
McNabb. Contrast that to Brett Favre, for example. Drop back passers
get injured less often.

If Vick drops back that fast, he should have more time to make his reads,
and that should work in his favor. The fact that it doesn't makes him look
even worse.

Too much expected? What--deliver the ball to the other players and
move the ball down the field--is that too much? Then maybe they should
have a seat and let a big boy run the show. Either that or get the job
done, and quit complaining and making excuses.
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
30,519
Location
Pennsylvania
Anyone who suffered through the three hour borefest tonight between Minnesota and Green Bay heard Cris Collinsworth
smiley8.gif
heap compliment after compliment on Tarvaris Jackson, the Vikings rookie black quarterback who was making his first start. Jackson is athletic, smart, strong, fast, mobile and has a cannon arm according to Collinsworth, the assets that all black QBs are always credited with having by the media. Collinsworth did not state whether he believes Jackson can also walk on water.


When a long down field pass by Jackson clanked off of Troy Williamson, the Vikings sorry excuse for a "professional" receiver (who was the seventh overall pick of the draft in '05), Collinsworth breathlessly exclaimed that Brad Johnson could never make such a throw. Apparently Johnson, one of the most accurate throwers in NFL history and the owner of a Super Bowl ring, has no positive attributes whatsoever to offer.


Under Jackson the Vikings managed all of three first downs, the worst offensive performance in their 46 year history. Maybe Jackson was just "asked to do too much."
smiley15.gif
 

Bart

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
4,329
Bart said:
Gandy said one of the biggest problems the Falcons have had in running a conventional offense is that the timing is always off because Vick sets up so quickly. In most offenses, by the time the quarterback sets up on a standard three-step drop, the wide receiver is coming out of his break, ready to get open. With Vick, the receivers are still in their patterns.


Pitbull's comment on the above quote made me think about it more closely. Are we expected to believe that even while running backwards in a dinky three step drop, Vick is still so much faster than (white) quarterbacks that the receivers are not yet out of their breaks? This is ridiculous! A three step drop does not cover a whole lot of ground for goodness sake. It's not like they cover 40 yards or something. Most of themget back quickly, buthow much difference in time is there between the fastest and the slowest? And really how much difference does it make?At the most it would only be such a small fraction of time, that it would be totally insignificant. Edited by: Bart
 

ocaamikedm11

Mentor
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
540
Jackson is not a good QB. If he is Minnesota's future, they will be at the bottom of the standings for years to come.
 

backrow

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Messages
7,213
Location
Spain
ocaamikedm11 said:
Jackson is not a good QB. If he is Minnesota's future, they will be at the bottom of the standings for years to come.

as evidenced yesterday
smiley2.gif
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
2,954
Have any of you ever heard of Eldridge Dickey? He was a black QB who played at Tennesse State from 1965-67, and was drafted in the 1st round by the Oakland Raiders in 1968. Ken Stabler was picked by Oakland in the 2nd round that year.

Dickey was "fast,smart, athletic, with a cannon arm." Al Davis gave him a good shot at QB, but he couldn't make the grade and was shifted to WR. Dickey dropped a key pass against Kansas City in 1971 when he heard footsteps, and was cut the next year.

Dickey was written up in a feature by Sport magazine in 1967, and got an article by Pete Axthelm in Newsweek in 1969, when with the Raiders. As I have previously written on the Forum, sportswriters have been boosting black QB's since the 1960's.
 

White Shogun

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 2, 2005
Messages
6,285
Great thread and great points all around. I don't have much to add - just playing cheerleader this morning. I missed the game last night, but from what I'm reading, it doesn't look like I missed very much.

Unlike Tavarius Jackson, who apparently missed a lot.
smiley36.gif
 

Bart

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
4,329
This is the photo and caption appearing today in the storywe discussed. I don't think the sports writers will be happy until white QB's become as rare as cornerbacks, running backs and wide receivers.





Vick is subject to constant criticism. (AP)
 

Jimmy Chitwood

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
8,975
Location
Arkansas
"Just another case of the Man keeping us down."
smiley36.gif
 

Bart

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
4,329
" Howdid that lunch bucket, over achieving, motor always running, stumblin, bumblin, 110% effort giving, Iowahick,league leading sacker, plant my superior fast twitch ass on the ground? "
 

white is right

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
10,042
Kaptain Poop said:
That ridiculous article is now on the cover page of Yahoo!
The only credible thing I can think of is the comparison to white American hopes in boxing I recall Cooney stating that he felt like he was caring the world on his shoulders when he fought Holmes. But the difference between these black qb's and a Cooney and Bobick and Morrison is that Moon and Williams have shown black qb's can win and carry a franchise(to a point with Williams as he was poor mans Plunkett). None of these young qb's have shown that.........
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
30,519
Location
Pennsylvania
The 12/18 issue of Sports Illustrated has an article about Vince Young with this sub-heading: "In his native Houston. . . rookie Vince Young. . . showed the NFL the shape of things to come."


SI is simply recycling the exact same propaganda line we heard in 1997 about Kordell Stewart, in 2000 about Daunte Culpepper, and in 2002 about Michael Vick. And it's a pretty sure bet that the same line will continue to be recycled for more Caste System annointed black QBs in the days to come.


The sameissue of SI also has a orgasm-fest over Tiki Barber written by Karl Taro Greenfeld. Remember the reputed worst line ever to begin a novel: "It was a dark and stormy night. . ." Well, check out this piece of purple prose. I swear I'm not making this up. Is this the worst example of writing of all time or not?It's also a nominee for the "Smiling Negro" thread in Happy Hour. It's on page 63:


"In profile, against the orange sun setting into the smog over the industrial badlands of northern New Jersey, Barber's facial structure is so defined that you imagine you know what he will look like in a thousand years, long after the flesh has decomposed and he is only bone. His face is all sharp angles and perfect planes. His broad smile bares gleaming white, evenly arrayed teeth, an extra helping of perfection after the symmetry of his features."
 

White Shogun

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 2, 2005
Messages
6,285
In profile, against the orange sun setting into the smog over the industrial badlands of northern New Jersey, Barber's facial structure is so defined that you imagine you know what he will look like in a thousand years, long after the flesh has decomposed and he is only bone. His face is all sharp angles and perfect planes. His broad smile bares gleaming white, evenly arrayed teeth, an extra helping of perfection after the symmetry of his features.

W-T-F DON!?

Are you sure that was in SI? Reads more like something one might find in a gay romance novel! Not that I've ever read one though...
smiley36.gif


But seriously, how do they pull off writing stuff like that in a sports magazine? Do they think the guys who watch the NFL actually want to read some BS like that? Next thing you know they'll be telling us all what size jock he uses.
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
11
Location
Maryland
The majority of teams, even the ones with negro coaches, still realize that a
pocket passer who completes, is more valuable than a qb that scrambles like
a back, and has a fair to poor pass rating.
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
30,519
Location
Pennsylvania
Don Wassall said:
The 12/18 issue of Sports Illustrated has an article about Vince Young with this sub-heading: "In his native Houston. . . rookie Vince Young. . . showed the NFL the shape of things to come."


SI is simply recycling the exact same propaganda line we heard in 1997 about Kordell Stewart, in 2000 about Daunte Culpepper, and in 2002 about Michael Vick. And it's a pretty sure bet that the same line will continue to be recycled for more Caste System annointed black QBs in the days to come.


The sameissue of SI also has a orgasm-fest over Tiki Barber written by Karl Taro Greenfeld. Remember the reputed worst line ever to begin a novel: "It was a dark and stormy night. . ." Well, check out this piece of purple prose. I swear I'm not making this up. Is this the worst example of writing of all time or not?It's also a nominee for the "Smiling Negro" thread in Happy Hour. It's on page 63:


"In profile, against the orange sun setting into the smog over the industrial badlands of northern New Jersey, Barber's facial structure is so defined that you imagine you know what he will look like in a thousand years, long after the flesh has decomposed and he is only bone. His face is all sharp angles and perfect planes. His broad smile bares gleaming white, evenly arrayed teeth, an extra helping of perfection after the symmetry of his features."


InSI's gay article about Barber, after the author labels Barber "underappreciated" in the subtitle (and also "handsome"), we learn later on that this poor "underappreciated" athlete has endorsement deals with Cadillac, Johnston and Murphy shoes, PowerBar, Reebok, Dish Network, Foot Locker, Steiner Sports Memorabilia, McDonald's and Audemars Piguet (a watchmaker). And he is going to be on a national network show within a year or two, mainly because he is a black who speaks well and has a pleasant personality. Yes, life is really tough for black athletes -- or "$40 million slaves," as black New York Times columnist William Rhoden calls them in hisridiculous book of the same title.
 

White Shogun

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 2, 2005
Messages
6,285
I wonder what excuses they'll make for McNabb if Garcia takes the Eagles to the Super Bowl? Heaven forbid the Eagles win with Garcia running the offense!

I've already heard the ESPN radioheads say that Reid is coaching up the Eagles, and the rest of the team has stepped it up after losing McNabb. The announcers during the game couldn't say enough derogatory things about Garcia, e.g. he wouldn't be the first guy central casting would send over on a call for a quarterback, etc.

Let's not forget this team was 5-5 with McNabb. They weren't a lock on the playoffs and actually looked like they were done for the season. Garcia comes in and now the Eagles are 9-6, hold control over the NFC East, and could be the 3rd seed in the NFC playoffs.

Not bad for a scrub, gay, backup quarterback, huh?
 

white is right

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
10,042
Don Wassall said:
Don Wassall said:
The 12/18 issue of Sports Illustrated has an article about Vince Young with this sub-heading: "In his native Houston. . . rookie Vince Young. . . showed the NFL the shape of things to come."


SI is simply recycling the exact same propaganda line we heard in 1997 about Kordell Stewart, in 2000 about Daunte Culpepper, and in 2002 about Michael Vick.And it's a pretty sure bet that the same line will continue to be recycled for more Caste System annointed black QBs in the days to come.


The same issue of SI also has a orgasm-fest over Tiki Barber written by Karl Taro Greenfeld. Remember the reputed worst line ever to begin a novel: "It was a dark and stormy night. . ." Well, check out this piece of purple prose. I swear I'm not making this up. Is this the worst example of writing of all time or not? It's also a nominee for the "Smiling Negro" thread in Happy Hour. It's on page 63:


"In profile, against the orange sun setting into the smog over the industrial badlands of northern New Jersey, Barber's facial structure is so defined that you imagine you know what he will look like in a thousand years, long after the flesh has decomposed and he is only bone. His face is all sharp angles and perfect planes. His broad smile bares gleaming white, evenly arrayed teeth, an extra helping of perfection after the symmetry of his features."


In SI's gay article about Barber, after the author labels Barber "underappreciated" in the subtitle (and also "handsome"), we learn later on that this poor "underappreciated" athlete has endorsement deals with Cadillac, Johnston and Murphy shoes, PowerBar, Reebok, Dish Network, Foot Locker, Steiner Sports Memorabilia, McDonald's and Audemars Piguet (a watchmaker). And he is going to be on a national network show within a year or two, mainly because he is a black who speaks well and has a pleasant personality. Yes, life is really tough for black athletes -- or "$40 million slaves," as black New York Times columnist William Rhoden calls them in his ridiculous book of the same title.
Limosine liberals like Rhoden are the reason why I hate most Demorcrats these days. His preaching to the downtrodden while he rides in a Mercedes is just too funny. Also can somebody sign me I want to be a 40 million dollar slave.....
smiley36.gif
 
Top