a white corner in the league

[Jimmy Chitwood]

i can't find any mention on the boards about Kevin Kaesviharn! this guy actually started at cornerback for the Bengals six times in 2002 before they realized it was better to have a lousy black corner than a talented white one. since then he has made more than his share of plays as a back-up at...you guessed it...safety. and of course he has become their best special teams player. have we heard this before?


what's interesting about Kaesviharn is that he was a dominant figure as a corner in pro football until he came to the N(o) F(air-complexioned-guys) League, setting records in the Arena League and being acknowledged as the best cover guy in the defunct XFL.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

i found a mention of Kaesviharn in some old links...you guys have the bases pretty well covered.


i even saw mention of some guys that i wouldn't have guessed you knew much about, such as Todd Franz, Josh Phillips, and Chris Kern. what's happened to those guys? are they out of football completely and using the degree that they earned withthe thing they have that is evidently useless on a football field...their brain?


I actually got to see Phillips in person at an NFL Europe training camp, and he was a helluva nice guy. even got his autograph. i told him it might be worth something someday, since he's probably one of a kind...a white, ivy-league corner. he laughed and said there didn't seem to be much demand for them.


Chris Kern was awesome! i watched him inan all star game a couple of years ago, and he was the only defensive back that could cover David Kircus. the two of them made quite a highlight when Kircus pulled in a long td on a diving catch just BARELY extending over Kern to make the play. sweet! Detroit didn't let him hang around for long, though.


as for Franz, saw him over at Tulsa, and he covered guys like white on rice...or rather like white icing on chocolate cake. too bad he was dubbed another special teamer and nickel back and has bounced around ever since.


another guy that has amazing talent but isn't doing it in the NFL is Tony Lukins. simply amazing speed! he's doing well in the arena league, but hardly got a glimmer with the Raiders.

 

[jaxvid]

Don posted this tidbit about Kevin last season during week 6 or 7. He is also mentioned in the team archives.

Like your "N(o) F(air-complexioned-guys) League" nice spin on the "Negro Football League" or the other less polite version.

Posted: 18 October 2004 at 5:00pm | IP Logged

Cincinnati's Kevin Kaesviharn, who did a fine job starting at CB for the Bengals a couple of years ago when he was brought in due to injuries and for his efforts was converted into a backup safety, recovered a fumble for a touchdown against Cleveland.

 

[Guest]

Kaesviharn is a good football player.The reason he was moved was because Keiwan Ratliff and Tory James were much faster than him.That's actually it.

 

[surfsider]

And faster necessarily means better?

 

[SteveB]

Dante, what makes you say that Ratliff and James were MUCH faster than Kaesviharn? Is it because Ratliff and James are black, so they must be MUCH faster?

 

[Guest]

No,for goodness sakes,it's not because they were black it's because Keiwan runs a 4.45 and Kaesviharn runs around a 4.6.Thats not to say he cannot play cornerback(he proved he can)but that is why he is playing safety all the time.Tory James is better only because he is a very experienced veteran and has played in the big leagues much longer than Kevin.


Kevin played D2 ball and and bounced around a lot.That's why he isn't playing CB.I'm not trying to demean you guys,I'm just saying what I know.Edited by: Dante

 

[KG2422]

Much of this talk is about speed but what about technique? I watch many of these black corners and they cover as if the quarterback were going to throw them the ball. You should find the receiver and then make a play on the ball. Their disregard for fundamentals and sound technique is what makes whites better players in my opinion. Its a recurring theme in all sports. If I were a college coach I would recruit the best white corners, receivers and backs in the country. I could almost get my pick of the litter because no one else is recruiting them. Out of the millions of whites in this country, there are some who can play corner or back or anything else. Look at what Lithuania, with a country of only 3 million, did to our black all star team we sent to the olympics. I think part of this is because whites play better when all on the same team. It's a matter of team chemistry. Blacks may very well have a higher percentage of people with athletic bodies ,but if you take the elite athletes from the millions in our population and play against the elites from their millions in population both groups will be athletic and it will come down to temperament and teamwork. And we have that without question.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

i'd like to know where you found Kaesviharn's 40 time, because i've followed him for about six years and have never seen it posted anywhere. and 4.6?


i noticed that you didn't mention his leaping ability, but i'm sure it must have slipped your mind. he was an all-american jumper in college. furthermore, for a guy who is so terribly slow, how is it that he is consistently in the top four db's on the Bengals in pass break-ups? pretty impressive considering his limited playing time and of course his EXTREMELY limited athletic ability.


as for bouncing around, he's been with the Bengals since he was cut from the Packers after intercepting Bret Favre twice in a singlescrimmage in training camp, returning both int's for td's. i wouldn't exactly call that bouncing around the league.

 

[SteveB]

Maybe Dante was at that Packers scrimmage with a stopwatch and he timed Kevin running back those interceptions.

I have never seen a 40 time for him either. I think he pulled it out of his a$$.

 

[White Shogun]

Jimmy, I agree with you but this quote:

furthermore, for a guy who is so terribly slow, how is it that he is consistently in the top four db's on the Bengals in pass break-ups?

IMO doesn't help prove your point any.

Being in the "top 4 DB's" out of 4, or at most, 6, defensive backs, on a team like the Bengals, isn't going to make anyone toot your horn.

Not saying this guy isn't any good or can't play, just that saying he is one of the top four DB's on the Bengals isn't saying much.

 

[Guest]

I did not say Kevin Kaesviharn was garbage.I think he's cool.I just was trying to establish that he wasnt not playing DB because he's white but for other reasons.NFL coaches are not discriminating against whites,it's all about who's the better football player or who fits the scheme.

 

[Don Wassall]

I did not say Kevin Kaesviharn was garbage.I think he's cool.I just was trying to establish that he wasnt not playing DB because he's white but for other reasons.NFL coaches are not discriminating against whites,it's all about who's the better football player or who fits the scheme.

This guy played at something called Augustana College in South Dakota. Probably Division XII-BB or something like that, yet he had the ability to step right in and play cornerback in the NFL at a high level. That's where you have it back-asswards. Guys like Kaesviharn are evidence not that there isn't discrimination against white cornerbacks, butthat many more whites can and should be playing CB in the NFL. But if none are recruited and developed by any big I-A programs (with very rare exceptions), how will any, other than a Kaesviharn out of Augustana every 25 years or so,ever get to the NFL?


And for his productive play at cornerback, Kaesviharn was rewarded by being switched to backup safety.

 

[whiteCB]

What did happen to Chris Kern? One day he's leading Mount Union to another D3 championship and makes the Lions as a 5th CB last year. Then all of a sudden he disappears off the face of the earth. I guess if your white you can't play CB for more than a year in the NFL.

 

[jaxvid]

All the Detroit media started to describe Kern as one of the fastest players the Lions had so I guess he was purged so as not to hurt any tender feelings, ya know how sensitive the bro's are.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

according to the gamebook on NFL.com, Todd Johnson for the Bears got the start against Cleveland last night at corner...did anybody catch this game?


i remember Johnson as a Florida Gator, where he was all-SEC a couple o' years. he's pretty impressive and was a corner in high school, only moving to free safety once he went to college.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

I didn't see the game, but I too remember Johnson being a bright spot on a very black Florida defense. I'm glad he's at least getting a shot.

 

[JoeV]

I have the game TiVOed. I will have to watch it to look for this guy.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

i was curious when i hadn't seen any mention of the best cover guy i personally watched in college last year in the NFL headlines, a guy by the name of Brandon Heaney. he was a corner for BYU, and although he struggled with shoulder injuries was a tremendous hitter (or maybe vice versa) and an unparalleled cover corner. obviously he went undrafted since he was white, but he didn't even make it through training camp before the turk got him! check out the numbers i found on him off the net:



<TABLE width="100%">
<T>
<TR>
<TD =text vAlign=top width="100%"><A name=1382></A>
<DIV =title>BYU's Brandon Heaney Clocks 4.37 sec. 40 Yard Dash at NFL Timing Day
<HR color=#999999 SIZE=1>
Brandon Heaney turned some heads March 23rd in front of over 17+ NFL teams. Brandon a 5'11" 185lbs. corner for the Cougars was recently named MVP of the Las Vegas All-American Classic clocked a 4.37 sec. 40 Yard Dash. It did not stop there, he jumped 37" vertical jump, 9'10" broad jump, clocked a 3.91 sec. short shuttle, 6.52 L-Cone Agility, 10.72 60 Yard Shulttle and impressed scouts with a strong showing in postional drills. He drew interest from several teams in attendance. Heaney trained with PCT prior to the BYU NFL timing day. </TD></TR></T></TABLE>


those incredible numbers come from the official NFL timing day, not somebody saying he ran "about a whatever" and reported officially on the site procombinetraining.com. and check out this site's analysis (draftdaddy.com) after Heaney won the MVP of the usually small-school guy All-American Classic:


From all the outside info we got on players during practice in Vegas, no one got a more consistent scouting report than CB Brandon Heaney of BYU. Most reports went like this: Heaney is too small and too slow and should stop trying now. Well, good thing for Brandon, was he wasn't listening, as he went out and intercepted 2 passes (including a 28 yard TD return) and won the games' MVP honors. Heaney, who is officialy listed at 5'11" and 185, with sub 4.4 speed, is a transfer from the Air Force Academy. The speedy Heaney had a decent career for struggling BYU, despite bad luck with injuries. He's a player that may or not get drafted, but Saturday's game will help his cause. Perhaps even the CFL may take a long look at the gutsy BYU CB?


is there anyone out there who can deny a caste system exists after a guy is that good and backs it up with those numbers? too slow?!? too short?!? there are dozens of NFL starting corners who are under 5'11" and i'd bet every dollar i have that less than20 guys in the NFL run legitimate sub-4.4's. wake up America!

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Has he been signed by anyone, or is he going the CFL route?

 

[Guest]

He was granted an extra year of eligability and should be playing for BYU again this year. Maybe we will see him next year. Never say never.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

actually, that was last season. but maybe he'll get a shot in the Arena League or CFL before he does what the rest of us do...get a real job.

 

[white lightning]

Screw the real job.That is the problem.Look at Luke Staley working in a shopping mall.White athletes give up with out a fight.He has out of this world athletic ability and deserves a shot.He needs to demand a chance and go to the media if he can't get a shot!I'm serious.White Athletes need to stand up for themselves.

 

[backrow]

sorry for digging up old thread, but i found brandon on the Falcons roster


http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/552985


and he is listed as CB not your usual DB

 

[Don Wassall]

He's not listed on the Falcons roster.Thatlink was probably from training camp. He could be on the practice squad, or was waived.


http://www.nfl.com/teams/rosters/ATL