2009 World Championship of Track & Field

[chrisp728]

Hello, I've been lurking on this forum for aaaaages and thought I'd join in the discussion, what with Bolt's incredible time. With all this PED talk, I've no doubt that some top sprinters are on them, but how cam you be so sure that white sprinters aren't on them too? It's not impossible: I remember Dougie Walker (1998 European 200m champ from Scotland) testing positive.

I don't want to knock you or the site: I'm pro-white and always support white athletes, and I agree completely on the sickening media bias against whites in sports and elsewhere. But I think that, in terms of the short sprint, blacks do have a slight advantage. That advantage is magnified by media coverage that puts off whites, and racist coaches and trainers who don't even give talented whites a chance; but even if all this were equal, I think blacks would dominate overall.

I'm a Brit, and have been following Craig Pickering for some time, but I think the time has come to be realistic and dial back expectation for the guy. Sadly, he hasn't improved in four years, and the back end of this season was really pretty poor. I know some of Craig's fans on here have been hoping for a sudden breakout performance, but in fact he already did that, when he ran 10.08w. For him, that was freakish: he's a 10.2 runner, and unfortunately I don't see him getting under 10. No offence, but it kind of discredits certain posters when they keep saying, "next race/month will be when he breaks 10", when in fact he hasn't even come close.

I was very interested in LeMaitre after watching the 10.04 in the Euro Juniors (the link for which I got from this forum: thanks!) Really disappointing to see him false-start; reminds me of Shirvo in the World Champs 10 years ago. Let's hope Christophe's career doesn't take the same trajectory! Here's a guy who has already done the biz, run a seriously fast time at a young age (unlike Pickering), and whose physique shows potential for big improvement. If I didn't want to tempt fate I'd say he looked like a young Bolt (whose PB was 10.03 before 2008)...

Btw is Guliyev only running the 200m? Seems like a strange choice, after his great times in the 100....bit like Morne Nagel: I remember how he blizted the world in the 60m, then just went to 200 outdoors before vanishing

 

[Observer]

As far as white sprinters vs white sprinters go...you really have to look at it as Euros vs real African runners. How many African sprinters won Olympic gold..? I would say zero...they are worse than white sprinters. ... We all know the top runners are all on PEDs anyway....some of those Jamaican women are totally ripped. I don't care what color they are..a 30 year old women does not look like that

Good points, nash. It is with the women sprinters where Jamaica's new-found prowess is most obvious, both in terms of physical appearance and progression in times even at relatively advanced ages. Bolt's physique looks quite normal -- until you remember how scrawny he was not so long ago, and showing few signs of being able to put on muscle, as is sometimes the case with tall people.

 

[white lightning]

Bolt is juiced to the gills. Look how big Powell is. Bolt keeps getting bigger but he has a frame that helps to hide it. He would have to get body builder big to look as obvious as the young guys like Harry A. Aiierty of England. These guys are all like human experiments. Are some white sprinters on roids? That would be a yes as well but nothing like the US, and Carribean Sprinters. They bring back memories of E.Germany. Any one who can't see that is blind.

Craig Pickering is far from being done. He is 22 years of age. If he was in his late twenties, I might agree with you. He needs to fix his form. The power and top speed are very good. He just has to run smoother and fix his arm swing. To write him off at such a young age is stupid! He has struggled for 2 years now but he still runs consistant 10.20's times. Who else other than Lemaitre does as far as white sprinters go? No one. Guliyev need to compete more. Craig will get his form fixed. It's not like the other guys are making the finals either. Only the ped man(Chambers) made the final. The other guys are barely better than Craig. He will be back where he belongs next season. Count on it!Edited by: white lightning

 

[jaxvid]

Hello, I've been lurking on this forum for aaaaages and thought I'd join in the discussion, what with Bolt's incredible time. With all this PED talk, I've no doubt that some top sprinters are on them, but how cam you be so sure that white sprinters aren't on them too? It's not impossible: I remember Dougie Walker (1998 European 200m champ from Scotland) testing positive.

We talk about Kentaris use of PED's all of the time. Funny how a white guy when he uses PED's wins Olympic gold just like when black guys use PED's and win gold. But it's the white guys who are the slower runners. I would be interesting to have a bunch of the best white runners roided to the gills like some of the black runners and see what they could do. Sure maybe blacks are faster in a few arbitrary distances like 100 meters, but I wonder why so many have been busted for PED's over the years if they are so naturally fast?

 

[chrisp728]

I think some of the problem with Craig might be the mental side of it. You probably saw the BBC documentary a couple of years back following him and a couple of the black sprinters in Britain. It's clear he's a fairly quiet guy, not particularly brash or confident. Also, it's clear that Simeon Williamson and he don't get along, and I noticed some hostility from the othe blacks when they talked about how he gets support because he's seen as "the underdog" (ie white).

It must be a psychological drain to have to associate and compete with blacks who don't particularly like you. For a big, loud character it might not make much difference, but Craig doesn't seem to fit that bill. If only he had some other elite white 100m men to train with, but GB hasn't had anyone decent since Allyn Condon a few years back. And again the media (especially the notoriously left-wing pro-black BBC) doesn't help matters, giving him little support.

If Craig had one really good time (ie sub 10.05 legal) I might agree the potential was there. But he's never even gone below 10.10 legally. Call the wind-assisted time a 10.10: that's his best in four years. Do you really think he's going to go sub-ten? For years, you've been saying next race/month/season will be the one. But he hasn't got any better. What leads you to believe that next season will be radically different?

 

[chrisp728]

How much difference do PEDs make in a 100m or 200m race? 0.1 secs? 0.2 secs? More? I really don't know. What's clear is that Kenteris was a phenomenal athlete regardless. But in most of his big races, he was probably the only white guy. All things being equal, and PEDs being available to all, there would surely be more white guys at the top level on PEDs.

The guys that have been busted for PEDs would be extremely fast anyway, probably sub-10, but the PEDs added that extra couple of metres. I think the fastest natural blacks would probably be around 9.9, maybe Bolt at 9.8, with the fastest whites around 10.0-10.1. Not a huge gap, and it's possible that a white freak of nature may come along to go under 10 clean (Lemaitre?) But I think that blacks in general are marginally faster than whites over 100m (though the gap is magnified by media and coaching bias).

 

[white lightning]

My belief comes from his lack of form. His style is even worse than Shirvo. I've always belived that Shirvo fought himself as he powered down the track. Matt Shirvington generated as much power as any sprinter. Craig is very similar but he just has to learn to change his form. His arm swing and drive phase still leave alot to be desired. He also is capable of lengthening his stride just a little. It is all about tweaking liitle things here and there. It's not like he is stuck in the 10.30 - 10.40's range. He is not that far away. His power and stride turnover ratio are fine. He just needs some coaching. Watch Christian Blum run. Then watch Craig. If he can be taught to fix his form, he will go sub 10! Shirvo could have as well but he never changed his style. Even people in Australia said he always had trouble staying in his lanes. Some wanted Matt to just do the long jump instead. It's too late for Shirvo but there is still 3 years till London. It is not too late for Craig. If you are only here to knock the guy, keep your thoughts to yourself. I know track and I still belive he will go sub 10. I know talent when I see it. Fix the form and the times will come!

 

[chrisp728]

But what's he actually doing to change his form? He's obviously been training at a very high level with an elite coach for several years: why haven't these form issues you say are there been fixed since his first big year in 2005? Is he planning on changing his coach this winter? Moving to America to train? If you're just making your prediction based on blind faith, then you lack credibility, because you've spent the last few years saying that he would go sub-ten within the year, and he hasn't got anywhere near. HOW is he going to fix the form?

 

[white lightning]

First off I'm a moderator here. You need to be careful how you talk to me. I can delete your posts and have you banned. This board welcomes you here as long as you are not here to constantly discredit me or other long standing members of this message board. I used to be a sprinter. I also know more about track than the majority of people who post here. He needs to change his coach. I can't force him to. It is a decision that only Craig can make. It is not easy to go into a new direction. I only hope he heeds the advice. Obviously if he does not make some changes, he will be stuck in neutral or most likely eventually go in reverse. I belive he will make the changes in the near future. Again, watch how you talk to people on here. You are a rookie and you can be banned if you don't learn to show respect. We all have our opinions and views. You don't have to agree with everything. You will see that I am right in the future but I could care less what you think. This is a warning. Respect the members of the board. I give posters the same respect that I want for myself.

 

[mastermulti]

Shirvo was interviewed on local radio this morning about Bolt's run.
He thinks it was amazing. The legitimacy of how he got to run so fast wasn't touched on (of course). Matt is unlikely to accuse people anyway,no matter what thoughts he may or may not have privately. He just said he thought the sport had moved onto another plane since the 10/11 years ago when he started.

He realises his time has been and gone and he seems totally content with life as it is now.

When asked if it wanted to make him come out of retirement he laughed and said "not anytime soon"

 

[foobar75]

Hello, I've been lurking on this forum for aaaaages and thought I'd join in the discussion, what with Bolt's incredible time. With all this PED talk, I've no doubt that some top sprinters are on them, but how cam you be so sure that white sprinters aren't on them too? It's not impossible: I remember Dougie Walker (1998 European 200m champ from Scotland) testing positive.

I don't want to knock you or the site: I'm pro-white and always support white athletes, and I agree completely on the sickening media bias against whites in sports and elsewhere. But I think that, in terms of the short sprint, blacks do have a slight advantage. That advantage is magnified by media coverage that puts off whites, and racist coaches and trainers who don't even give talented whites a chance; but even if all this were equal, I think blacks would dominate overall.

I'm a Brit, and have been following Craig Pickering for some time, but I think the time has come to be realistic and dial back expectation for the guy. Sadly, he hasn't improved in four years, and the back end of this season was really pretty poor. I know some of Craig's fans on here have been hoping for a sudden breakout performance, but in fact he already did that, when he ran 10.08w. For him, that was freakish: he's a 10.2 runner, and unfortunately I don't see him getting under 10. No offence, but it kind of discredits certain posters when they keep saying, "next race/month will be when he breaks 10", when in fact he hasn't even come close.

I was very interested in LeMaitre after watching the 10.04 in the Euro Juniors (the link for which I got from this forum: thanks!) Really disappointing to see him false-start; reminds me of Shirvo in the World Champs 10 years ago. Let's hope Christophe's career doesn't take the same trajectory! Here's a guy who has already done the biz, run a seriously fast time at a young age (unlike Pickering), and whose physique shows potential for big improvement. If I didn't want to tempt fate I'd say he looked like a young Bolt (whose PB was 10.03 before 2008)...

Btw is Guliyev only running the 200m? Seems like a strange choice, after his great times in the 100....bit like Morne Nagel: I remember how he blizted the world in the 60m, then just went to 200 outdoors before vanishing

crisp728, you make some very, very good comments/observations and I agree with you entirely.Edited by: foobar75

 

[foobar75]

First off I'm a moderator here. You need to be careful how you talk to me. I can delete your posts and have you banned. This board welcomes you here as long as you are not here to constantly discredit me or other long standing members of this message board.

You don't have to agree with everything. You will see that I am right in the future but I could care less what you think. This is a warning. Respect the members of the board. I give posters the same respect that I want for myself.

I'm very, very disappointed to see this sort of a threat on the board. I do not believe crisp728 said anything to deserve this. We all have our points of view, and sometimes we may agree to disagree, but the only way I can see someone being banned is if they indeed come here and badmouth other posters for no reason at all, which is not what happened in this discussion in my opinion.

It seems that you just did not like hearing the truth, that perhaps despite your personal opinion, and no matter how much we all want a white sprinter to succeed at the elite level, it just doesn't look like it will happen.

 

[mastermulti]

I must confess I thought you were a bit harsh on the newbie too, W/L.

I just remember that "Brutal" guy on sub10 was always overly defensive and we (you, me and others) didn't like it much...........

so, what are we planning to enjoy of the coverage tonight? one thing's for sure, I'll watch our 7.30 to 10.30pm session but no more 3 to 4 am starts (at least till the 200s LOL)

 

[chrisp728]

Foobar, thanks for your posts.

Whitelightning - hopefully you will be mature enough to step back, re-read your ridiculously aggressive reply, and the posts of foobar and mastermulti, and accept that you are in the wrong.

You wrote "We all have our opinions and views. You don't have to agree with everything.....I give posters the same respect that I want for myself. "

Quite clearly not, as your rude, threatening, disrespectful and aggressive post toward me shows. You didn't respect my opinions and views; rather you started to use disrespectful threats.

Please point out where I "didn't show respect"? As for "discrediting" you, I merely pointed out your many, many wrong predictions that Craig would go sub-ten in the near future. It is your own incorrect predictions, not me, that have discredited you.

Even on the topic at hand (Craig's need to make changes to his training regime) you have no evidence that he is going to make the necessary changes, and so your prediction that he will improve next season is based on hot air, as usual. As I said, there is nothing to suggest that next season will be radically different from the previous four - ie times of around 10.2.

Don't get me wrong, I want Craig to go sub-10 as much as anyone. But just saying that he will isn't going to make it happen, as your previous four years of comments proves. Unless you have evidence of real change, simply repeating the same discredited "next race is the one" line is like living in cloud cuckoo land.

Oh, and your claim that "you are a moderator here and therefore I have to be careful how I talk to you" makes you sound like something between a member of the East German Stasi and a little boy who takes his football home from the playground because he is being soundly beaten. I hope that you're better than that.

 

[white lightning]

So now you continue with the insults. Even if I overreacted, you are comparing me to a nazi or a little boy. Have you coached track? Did you ever participate in track at any level? I also assume that you must be right 100% of the time. Just because Craig has not went sub 10 despite my predictions does not mean that I do not know anything about track. You barely have joined this board and your calling me an idiot for being wrong on a prediction. I'm human. Not a robot and all of us make mistakes. Name one person who gets every hypothesis correct. I haven't been proven wrong as yet with Craig other than the time table I thought it would happen in. He is still 22 but according to you he should retire.

I don't have a problem with anyone here 99% of the time other than the trolls. You come on here and act like you own the board. So he hasn't went sub 10 yet. It doesn't mean that he never will or that he won't even do it next season if he changes some things. I said myself he will go no where unless some changes including the coach are to happen in the near future. You are trying to make me look like a fool. You are the one in the wrong. I don't care if we disagree on things. Just don't attack my character or you will be banned. I don't take crap from a newbie. You don't deserve my respect when you have done nothing by say I'm clueless with my predictions. Any more threats and your gone period! Go find another board. I don't care when you talk like a punk and continue to discredit me. I may be wrong on occasion but I know track better than you ever will. If you don't like it, then leave. Sorry guys but this poster is not going to talk to me or anyone like that.

 

[mastermulti]

now you've gone and made a big deal of it Chrisp728. WHY? This is how mafia feuds started back in the old country (so I'm led to believe lol)

Let there be peace on the forum folks!
Let's talk track startinggggg......NOW.
I'm going for all the girls in the triple jump that I'll be ogling.

I once courteously volunteered to wipe the sand from the ladies at the Sydney Olympics jumps but they knocked me back.

 

[white lightning]

I agree. We both can be agree to disagree. I do respect alot of your views chrisp728. I just don't like your insults or temper. I'm sure you feel the same. No more debating on this. It's a waste of time. Back to track. We are all friends here as long as we realize that we are not going to all think alike. We just need to continue to support the few white sprinters of the world. They get very little respect. These men and women train very hard. They need more people to appreciate what they do. That is why we are here. For track and all of the other great sports that white athletes participate in. Join in the discussion guys.Edited by: white lightning

 

[chrisp728]

LOL@mastermulti......do you remember Susen Tiedtke of Germany? I remember watching her in the 1991 World Championships while waiting for Roger Black's 400m race. If I was to be reincarnated as a grain of sand, it would be in that pit

 

[Colonel_Reb]

There are a few things I want to throw out there real quick. Even if, and I think most of us are willing to agree that, at that distance, blacks have a very slight edge over whites, is anyone stupid enough to think that it is as much as 1/2 second difference, when the gap has never been that large before? Drugs has to be the answer, end of story. When you have a man like Allan Wells beating every black of note in 1980 while running just over a 10 flat, and less than 30 years later the world record has tumbled to 9.58. The only way it makes any sense is when you factor in PED use. If it weren't for cultural Marxism, this stuff wouldn't be happening because the users, if there were any, would be quickly outed. The fact that track steroids hardly ever gets brought up by the media is a testament to this fact. I mean, what will it take for some of these caste

clowns to ask questions about the obvious, an 8 second flat 100M time? Or is the extent of our "black athletic superiority" brainwashing to the point that such ludicrous results won't even raise an eyebrow?

Another thing that gets me is the way the 100M is set, for what reason I do not know, as the point at which we decide the so-called "world's fastest man." Why not 60M, 40M, 20M, or reaction time out of the blocks? I can't think of the last time I needed to run 100M at a dead sprint for any reason. The whole idea of proclaiming someone the world's fastest man at that distance is ridiculous to me.

 

[mastermulti]

For whatever reasons people see the 100m as the measure of complete sprinting ability.
And it's mostly white folk who go to the arena to watch these gladiators battle it out.

Things haven't changed much over the centuries but at least they've dispensed with the lions and the emperor's thumb


"do you remember Susen Tiedtke of Germany?" chrisp728

no I don't remember her (but I'll "google image" her). I DO, however, remember Katrina Krabbe, sighing and realising I couldn't catch her LOLEdited by: mastermulti

 

[Observer]

As always, Colonel, many good points. I especially like your comments about the 100m as the premier event. I personally think it should be the 400m, because that is where speed and power meet mechanical efficiency and endurance. A good 400m runner could do fairly well in any distance from 100m to 5000m, but I would guess that many of the top 100m sprinters would not beat a mediocre high-schooler in the 800. I remember seeing the results somewhere of a top 100m man running an 800 (was it Asafa Powell? I'm not sure), and also of Bolt running some cross-country in the off-season. It was about the time that waterbed had posted some of his times, from 40 yards all the way up to something like 3000 meters. I remember thinking "waterbed would beat these top sprinters in 8 out of 10 distances".
I'm basing too much on a few scanty recollections, I do think it is curious that the 100m trumps the 400m.

 

[sunshine]

First the 100 M is the best for so called fastest man- -400 M there are turns --so I would not question that--but like Col and others have mentioned how the hell do black guys keep pulling away from whites on these times? Even the black superioity group have not formulated a reason for this although I think it even takes them by surprise. Perhaps an amalgam of environment--where whites are kept away early on from speed stuff, pyschological, social and well heck have to throw in the drug issue. This does not compute in my mind. And it annoys me to no end.

 

[StarWars]

The 50/ 60m is the only all out sprint in track. That is the race for the fastest man. Although Wariner could chase down Bolt in about 30 seconds, so the 400 is also a good one.

 

[StarWars]

For the 200, our guys to watch are in this order:

1. 20.04 Ramil Guliyev
2. 20.30 Paul Hession
3. 20.41 Robert Hering
4. 20.43 Alexander Kosenkow
5. 20.68 Jared Connaughton

There are more but these are the best competitors. All can final, but Guliyev and Hession are the most likely. Hession has a good chance, actually. Hering or Kosenkow should PB in front of the home crowd.

 

[green fire317]

do whites have an advantage in short distances like the 60m? im not really a track guy. also do whites have an advantage at events like the 10m?Edited by: green fire317