Black QBs--Why Not Option?

Discussion in 'NFL' started by Guest, Sep 1, 2006.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You know, I don't have anything against an NFL team going out and getting a black QB to lead their team. My only beef is that they ought to let the black kid do what he does best: run an OPTION offense, or maybe even someday resurrect the WISHBONE.


    Sure, the black QB's career is going to be hellaciously short, when he gets tackled a few times by NFL caliber athletes. But then, at least a Michael Vick can do what he does best, and coaches could quit trying to make a white guy out of him.


    Of course, if an NFL team is going to take this black QB option, they better have a good backup. But what the heck does a team have to lose by just letting a black kid be a black kid?---let him do his thing, and if/when he gets hurt, just have a plan B--as in, a white kid who can step in and be a real QB and actually throw accurately. But in the meantime, you might as well use those black legs for what they're really good for.


    Of course, if I was an NFL team owner, I would not have anything to do with a black QB. They just don't have it. I don't think they have the "field generalship"--or call it whatever you will. Even Doug Williams, who QB'd a Super Bowl win and was black, only picked up where a white guy, Jay Schroeder, had left off. Williams was NOT the leader of that team for the whole season. He simply got on a hot streak and had an amazing team surrounding him.


    I think Bud Adams' Vince Young Experience is going to like a bad trip on acid. Bud's an old man, and I think he just set his team back for years to come. He'll be dead by the time they pull out of the Vince Young debacle. I'm calling it now. Young will have a few amazing runs to add to a highlight reel, but he will never be a real NFL QB, just like Michael Vick, and the Titans will, as a result, never win any meaningful games under Young. Adams screwed up royally by going after the darkie. Gotta call a spade a spade here. But...if they let Young run an Option offense....they might be unstoppable, at least for a few games ina row...Edited by: Frank Rizzo
     
  2. jaxvid

    jaxvid Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2004
    Messages:
    7,247
    Location:
    Michigan
    Rizzo returns!

    Where to start? First off I don't think that Young really ran an option offense did he? The games I saw him play the team ran pro style and he just scrambled when the pass protection broke down or the receivers were covered and like any good runner in the open field he was hard to tackle.

    If you REALLY wanted to run an option offense then use Eric Crouch who won a Heisman running an option offense or Matt Jones who did the same. Then you get the running ability AND the brains.

    I think some posters may try to blast your post but I think the NFL could use some offensive variety like you mention. The pro game bores the hell out of me. There are a lot of colleges that play like you mention, putting whitey in for passing and blackie in for running, heck Ohio State was doing that a couple of years ago.

    But stop being such a caste system supporter and instead of wanting to see more of "darkie" you should want to see more of "lighty".
     
  3. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,285
    jaxvid, I don't think it'll be as bad for Rizzo and his pro-black QB-slash-RB praise as you might think. Unlike some of the recent posts around here claim, we can be very objective in our assessment, despite the pot-kettle-black nature of some of their allegations.

    I think the reason that coaches try to modify the play of black quarterbacks is because the scrambling, run first, run second, then throw nature of their game hasn't proved as successful as that of the standard, pro-typical quarterback. The option hasn't proven viable in the pros simply because defenders are too fast. Even sweep running plays are rare these days.

    Having said that, it would be nice if coaches and GMs would think outside the box on all levels. Let a black Qb run his option, and hand the ball off to a white tailback. Let's watch the black Qb throw deep to a white wide receiver, who is defended by a white DB. When the offense gets stuffed, let's watch the black kicker get them 3 points or punt the ball away.

    If there is a stereotype that blacks can't throw well, they certainly aren't lacking company in stereotype hell. Who says that whites aren't fast and can't run the ball, whether quarterback or runningback? Guys like Crouch are criticized for doing the very thing that Rizzo wants black quarterbacks to be able to do - run with the ball from the quarterback position.

    So yeah, let's shake up the game! I'm all for it. [​IMG]
     
  4. Ta Waki Mumba

    Ta Waki Mumba Guru

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    Messages:
    130
    Location:
    Manitoba
    Roll out and Pass!!!

    Very simple concept, but wait that would require both intelligence AND athleticism. Well I suppose that could try breeding some kind of a mullutto super QB [​IMG]

    or maybe stuff the stereotyping where it belongs and start teach playing style based on a player's abilities and not the colour of their skin?
     
  5. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,285
    Here, here!! [​IMG]
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well, for the most part, I agree with you guys. I would like to see more different types of offenses in the NFL. And I would like to see more white running QBs, more white DBs, more white WRs, more white RBs, etc. And I do think they are out there, without a doubt.


    Where I differ from you guys is this: I do think that, on average, a black guy may be faster than your average white guy--BUT SO WHAT!!!!????


    If it is true, and I mean IF it is true, are you prepared to face it, or are you going to cry? I for one am prepared to face it.


    Be a man.


    It's not like your average white guy doesn't have advantages over your average black guy. He does. Call it field generalship or spatial dispensation order ability (as has been written about on this very site!) or whatever--white guys excel at reading a space of property and throwing and chucking or kicking something into it accurately, more accurately than most black guys. And in leading other guys in their endeavor to do so. Think about it--if YOU were an NFL center--white, black, or other, would YOU want some black guy sneaking up, putting his hands in under YOUR crotch? Not hardly. Might slip you some gangsta signs where the sun ain't supposed to shine.


    But white guys can be trusted; they just lead, they don't need no bling bling along the way, and I think even other black guys know and respect that.


    Still, what if your average blackie is indeed faster than your average whitie. Oh my God, what if empirical observation should prove true once again....well then, I say...


    Be a man. Don't cry. It's okay. Really. Men get over things. They overcome. That's what men do.Edited by: Frank Rizzo
     
  7. Triad

    Triad Mentor

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Messages:
    573
    Yeah, Vick and Young had some great years running the option in college and the wishbone has been very effective in college football over the last decade. [​IMG] No, I'm sorry wrong decade-- that was the 1970's and 1980's.

    You need to stick to bashing white boxers and leave the football posts alone if this is the best you can come up with. [​IMG]
     
  8. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,285
    Rizzo:

    Another straw man. You're attributing thoughts and attitudes to people here that they do not have. I don't care if blacks are faster on average than whites. What I do NOT agree with is that this means whites cannot play skill positions in the NFL. Pure speed is not the only factor, or even the main one, in determining how well a guy can run with the football. Black running backs who are slow are described as 'bruisers;' white running backs who are slow are described as, well, 'slow.' There are plenty of white men who can carry the rock as well as any number of black men currently on NFL rosters, and *gasp* some of them are even FASTER than some of those black running backs!

    I can cite numerous examples, but would it matter?

    EDITED TO ADD: I can see you've edited your post since I posted mine. Your new, edited post is filled yet again with your typical, thinly veiled insults and sarcasm. I take it you must receive some perverse delight in writing such nonsense. You've degenerated from semi-clever troll to obvious troll. How it becomes you! Edited by: White Shogun
     
  9. Kaptain

    Kaptain Master

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,104
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Once again, Rizzo, they actually have little technological devices called stop watches that measures a players speed. You don't have to look at a person's skin color to tell how fast they are. And, wouldn't you know it - faster, bigger, stronger white players are being cut from the NFL because people like you can't get past the "black players are faster on average" arguement. You should be an NFL GM - you have all the qualifications.
     
  10. jaxvid

    jaxvid Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2004
    Messages:
    7,247
    Location:
    Michigan
    Men also speak rationally.
    There is nobody named "average" in the NFL, each player is an individual and should be judged as such. Empirical observation islooking at each INDIVIDUAL not some fantasy racial average.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I've been reading these posts and I can't stay out of this anymore. This is one very odd collection of people posting on this site. And they are believing some strange things. Things that may have little basis in science and reality. Look, people, at least one book I know of has been written which documents, anatomically, why black men run faster than white men. Not everytime, not every man, but most times, yes.
    What you have are people whose descendants have been running from lions and hippos for the past 6,000 years of recorded mongro-man history. OF COURSE they're going to excel at the speed sports.
    To say that whites run as fast as blacks?
    Ok, very well then. The next step logical: Are you prepared to say and believe that the mongrel Asiatic races, with their shorter legs and squattier bodies, also run as fast as whites and blacks???? Well, you MUST, or else you are being inconsistent in your dogmas.
    IF you take it as a faith that the more robust European man runs as fast as the long-legged, lion-eluding African, then to keep your racial religion consistent you must let in the Asiatic and other races, including the pygmies of Africa with their midget-like running gait for getting through dense jungle foliage. ALL are equal, or you are full of unfounded faith in a myth of your own peculiar, egomaniacal creation.
    Don't let them bully you, Rizzo, there's a lot of blind faith in this world, toward a lot of things.
     
  12. jaxvid

    jaxvid Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2004
    Messages:
    7,247
    Location:
    Michigan
    Schickelgruber, ya know, I think der furher would be a little upset at the way you give africans an advantage they don't have.

    Some info for you. Blacks win sprint races over whites by a few tenths of a second, big deal. Not enough to make a difference outrunning lions. And get this, nobody outruns a lion, that is a stupid analogy and one made by sorry ass anti-white racists like yourself.

    Asians don't even compete, not at all, so it is not about including everyone it is about discussing people that compete. That is such a simple point that you must be really stupid not to see it. If you don't know the results of sprint races and the race of the people running then why post on something you are ignorant about?

    Furthermore this is about indviduals and we have listed whites that were faster then blacks, doesn't make a difference, the whites are still not played. Doesn't this tick you off? What kind of a Nazi are you? Why would you not support your own?

    And when we talk about jumping it is typically a Nordic or a Slav that wins the high jump in the Olympics, almost NEVER an african. Why is it that you, a Hitler loving Nazi, would not stand up for Aryan's that outjump blacks?

    Do you know what Adolph would do to people like you if he was still alive?
     
  13. Gary

    Gary Mentor

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2004
    Messages:
    1,051
    Blacks can't skate or ski,just recently one of them learned how to swim.Greeks beat them in basketball,Russians in boxing,Italians in soccer!A Polish man is the World's Strongest,Germany won the most medals in the Winter Olympics.We are the world's best and smartest.No all men are not equal-WE ARE MUCH BETTER!!
     
  14. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,285
    SPRINTING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RUNNING A FOOTBALL.

    ASK EMMITT SMITH.
    ASK JEROME BETTIS.
    ASK STEPHEN DAVIS.
    ASK COREY DILLON.
    ASK PRIEST HOLMES.

    Rizzo, Schickelgruber, et al continuously twist this argument around to make it seem like whites cannot compete in the NFL because blacks are faster 'on average.' Pure sprinting speed is not what makes you a good football player! There are plenty of speed demons who've ran track in college who don't make it in the NFL.

    What's more, even when white men ARE the fastest players on their respective teams - IT DOESN'T MATTER. They get cut anyway!

    And as to this nonsense -
    The only people I've seen here trying to bully people are guys like Rizzo and yes, you Schickelgruber, who make belittling remarks, insult people, and use ad hominem attacks instead of actually debating the merits of your position.

    Furthermore, demonstrating that white men are better at other sports is relevant in that it shows that white men are athletic, powerful, and skilled enough to play and outcompete blacks in other arenas. Therefore, attempting to show that 100% black dominance at the runningback and cornerback positions in the NFL is attributable to their sheer athleticism is ridiculous on its face.

    And finally, making an argument that evolution has dictated blacks are better football players is ridiculous. I've never read of an archaelogical site that uncovered a fossil wearing a helmet and pads, and carrying a pigskin! [​IMG] Edited by: White Shogun
     
  15. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2004
    Messages:
    23,916
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    The key words are "on average." On average, whites have better hand-eye coordination than blacks, but that doesn't mean there aren't many blacks who can catch a football well, or shoot free throws well, throw a baseball well, or hit a golf ball well, er, scratch that last one. [​IMG] On average, whites score better, much better, than blacks on IQ tests, but that doesn't mean that aren't many smart blacks.


    Blacks may be able to run 40 yards a foot or two faster on average on whites, but there are still many whites who can run it faster than many blacks. Throw in the fact that there are five or six white males in the U.S. for every black male, and that tiny speed advantage "on average" becomes even more meaningless. Throw in the fact, as already mentioned above, that running back and every other position in football involves more than just raw speed and the black advantage "on average" becomes even yet more meaningless.


    To state what's been stated here many times -- the idea that years, even decades and generations, can go by with not a single white man capable of playing certain positions as well as the worst black at those positions is the most ludicrous, illogical assumption imaginable.
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I agree 100% with everything you've written here, Don.


     
  17. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2006
    Messages:
    8,525
    Most NFl players speed is totally overrated. Most players barely break 11 seconds in the century. That's highschool sprinter speed. What NFL players posess is speed with amazing size. Especially tailbacks. Your average musclehead in the gym is built like a tailback but run like lumbering bears who have take a dump. That said Emmit Smith and some other slower black tailbacks really don't run better than many "marginal" white tailbacks who either don't make the NFL or have a cup of tea in the league. Also aging veterans like Corey Dillon or Stephan Davis shouldn't be able to beat a young lion like a Lumsden....... [​IMG]
     
  18. Kaptain

    Kaptain Master

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,104
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Wait a minute White is Right. Let's be accurate here. Don't you remember a member of this site has already pointed out that blacks can out-run lions - even young ones. If Lumsden is a "young lion" he is obviously too slow to compete in the NFL. [​IMG]
     
  19. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2006
    Messages:
    8,525
    I think he learned this by reading the back of an old Mad magazine. They had a feature on the history of the hundred metre dash and showed a loined skinned African trying to out run a lion. Too bad the African looked like he lost though.... [​IMG]
     
  20. C Darwin

    C Darwin Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,181
    Location:
    New York
    Give the Irish a chance!
    [​IMG]
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Excellent find. I've seen this ad before, but for you to link it to this discussion was funny and clever, and something I never would have thought of or remembered. Props to you. (did I mentiion it's also funny?)


     
  22. Alpha Male

    Alpha Male Mentor

    Joined:
    May 22, 2005
    Messages:
    776
    Location:
    California
    Rizzo, you are so quick to point out the need for fast black legs, like Vince Young, for your option quarterback, but do you realize his speed was around a 4.55-4.6 at the combine, while EricCrouch and Matt Jones ran around a 4.3.

    The media of course made excuses for Young when he didn't have the Vick like speed they expected.

    White people can run, they just take longer to develop. Just ask my black track coach.
     
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest


    Crouch and Jones were/are studs, no doubt about that. Jones especially. They are two exceptions to the rule of which I speak. Look, did you ever run track? I did--but just in high school. Me and the other white guys practiced hard; we also had a lazy black guy on the team who shiftlessly shucked and jived around the track and barely practiced at all. But guess who was the fastest guy on our team. I'll give you a hint. It wasn't any of us white folk.


    Also in high school, I played football, and I was the fastest player on my football team. But it was an all-white team, so I was never wearing my arm out from patting myself on the back, and I knew that.


    These things are normative; just like white guys making better QBs because they make better decisions with the ball are normative.


    Black guys who make smart decisions at QB, guys like maybe a Warren Moon or something, or white guys who run a 4.3, like the guys you mentioned--all this is out there, but it is the exception to the rule.
     
  24. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2004
    Messages:
    23,916
    Location:
    Pennsylvania

    It's the exceptions you mention that prove the existence of the Caste System. There are tens of millions of boys who play football. Out of that large set, there will be quite a few black boys who make good decisions while playing quarterback and who also have fairly accurate arms, and there will be quite a few white boys who run very fast.


    We see a very concerted effort to give blacks every opportunity to compete at the quarterback position, bending over backwards really beginning in high school and then college, to find the ones whomay be able toplay capably at the pro level. But whites are not given anything near a similar opportunity to play any of the "speed" positions after high school. The major college programs simply will not recruit them no matter how fast or productive they are in high school, forcing them to go the walk-on route or play for a small college, and even after quite a few still find a way to excel in spite of that, the NFL has no use for them.


    Those who doubt the existence of the Caste System must also logically believe that none of the tens of millions of white boys who play football can run as fast as any of the blacks who play the "speed" positions, and further that the speed advantage of blacks is so pronounced in every single case that none of the other talents involved in playing "speed" positions, i.e., hand-eye coordination, intelligence, etc., matters at all.Edited by: Don Wassall
     
  25. jaxvid

    jaxvid Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2004
    Messages:
    7,247
    Location:
    Michigan
    How do you shiftlessly shuck and jive around a track? That comment is ridiculous, and I also find it hard to believe that the fastest guy on your track team did not play football since you say you were the fastest guy on your all white football team. And was he also the only black guy in the school. Whole thing smells like rotten fish to me Rizzo.
     

Share This Page