Pens to Houston?
- Thread starter jaxvid
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son of Radovan
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No no NO!
The Houston Penguins?
At least it snows in Pittsburgh. Before that tub of s**t Holmgren pissed away the Super Bowl to caste whore Cowher, the Pens were the most recent champions in the Steel City, and represented the region very well for a decade - including back to back Stanley Cups, IMO the most difficult championship to defend. Of course few objected to PNC Park or Heinz Field, but when it came time to build a new arena for the Pens, no dice. I wouldn't be surprised if they left, sad
but not surprised.
The Houston Penguins?
The city government and state government jerked Mario Lemieux around for eight years, promising a new arena back in 1999 when his group bought the team out of bankruptcy. Now, after having no bargaining leverage for all this time, the Penguins are holding all the cards.
They're more likely to go to Kansas City if they move, than Houston. We'll know more in the next few weeks. I wouldn't blame Lemieux & Co. if they move the team. If they do,it'll bebecausethe corrupt, brain-dead politicians in Pittsburgh and Harrisburgthrew away a free state of the artarena that would have been built entirely by private funds, instead preferring to pad their pockets and let the good old taxpayers bear the brunt of any new arena.
The best thing going for Pittsburgh is that Lemieux is not going to want to tarnish everything he did in this town for 23 years, as a player and then an owner, by moving the franchise to another city. He couldn't even speak English when the Penguins drafted him, but he's made his permanent home in Pittsburgh and wants to raise his family here, so Penguins fans keep your fingers crossed that the team doesn't leave Pittsburgh inspite of the despicable politicians in this state.
They're more likely to go to Kansas City if they move, than Houston. We'll know more in the next few weeks. I wouldn't blame Lemieux & Co. if they move the team. If they do,it'll bebecausethe corrupt, brain-dead politicians in Pittsburgh and Harrisburgthrew away a free state of the artarena that would have been built entirely by private funds, instead preferring to pad their pockets and let the good old taxpayers bear the brunt of any new arena.
The best thing going for Pittsburgh is that Lemieux is not going to want to tarnish everything he did in this town for 23 years, as a player and then an owner, by moving the franchise to another city. He couldn't even speak English when the Penguins drafted him, but he's made his permanent home in Pittsburgh and wants to raise his family here, so Penguins fans keep your fingers crossed that the team doesn't leave Pittsburgh inspite of the despicable politicians in this state.
Lance Alworth
Mentor
Now that guy Barden is trying to screw Mario, and suprise suprise Barden is a typical mealy mouthed moolie (I didnt even know he was black until i saw him on TV) and could care less about hockey. I'm a big Pens fan from out of town, but i must say, you guys in Pennsylvania, have to stop electing these crooked Democrats like Rendell. Not that the Repubs are much better, but you dont see this type of thing happening in states like North Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia where it is typically a Republican majority. These Dems have all but bankrupted the stateEdited by: Lance Alworth
castefootballer
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I hope they stay put in Pittsburgh personally, despite the recent decline in fan turnouts as of late. If Houston or K.C.wants a hockey team so bad,then why not just start from scratch?
Fan support has been outstanding in Pittsburgh. The Pens drew over 90 percent capacity lastyear even though it was their fourth season in a row with a terrible won-lost record, and they may sell out the rest of their home schedule this year. Their local TV ratings are as good as those of any team in the league. A new arena combined with the developing young talent the team has would make Pittsburgh one of the premierhockey marketsfor years to come. It will be a real shame if the idiot politicians and the NHL allow the team to move.
Lance Alworth
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Barden, Rendell and Onorato = snakes, if this thing doesn't get done
ocaamikedm11
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They are in the thick of a playoff race this year, so hopefully they can put it together in the second half and get in.
Realgeorge
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Don Wassall said:
Pittsburgh is an outstanding American market for hockey. The Penguins drew well even in their infancy when they were awful. In the Glory Years of the 1990s a ticket was hard to come by.
The maggot-infested politicos of PA could well freeze the Penguins. They can't even keep the Pennsylvania Turnpike reasonably paved. Note that Gary "The Butt" Bettmann isn't saying a word. He would fight tooth and nail if, say, the Anaheim franchise wanted to move. But anything to diss a largely White American city that loves its hockey team
foreverfree
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Lance Alworth said:
Who's Barden? Mayor of the Burgh?
John
foreverfree
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And who's Onorato? Never heard of him either.
John
John
Lance Alworth
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Barden is the head of the casino in which is supposed to pay 7.5 mil towards the funding of the new arena, and Onorato is the head of the gaming board
foreverfree
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Lance Alworth said:
Thanks.
John
(visitor to Pittsburgh in 1978 and 1989)
As has been discussed in another thread in the Hockey forum, the only reason the Penguins are considering moving is because the governments of Pittsburgh and Pennsylvania turned down a proposal by Isle of Capri -- a proposal which was contractually endorsed by the Penguins -- to build a state of the art arena in downtown Pittsburgh for $290 million at zero cost to taxpayers and the state, conditional on Isle of Capribeing granted the licenseto build the only casino in Pittsburgh (the whole issue of governments relying more and more on gambling revenue in order to continue to function is a topic for another thread).
The process of picking the slot license winners in Pittsburgh and other Pennsylvania cities dragged on for over a year after the Pennsylvania legislature decided to sanction gambling (in addition to its long-established lotteries). Early on, the word on the street was that "the fix was in" when it came to Pittsburgh --Isle of Capri didn't have a chance, because politicians were receiving bribes to grant the casino license to Harrahs, which possesses much deeper pockets than Isle of Capri.
As it turns out, the winner of the slots license was Don Barden, a black businessman from Detroit.
Why did Barden win? According to today's Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, it was because of his "charisma." Yes, like all Negroes, Barden was gifted with great charisma. In fact, the very firstsentence of the article states:
Businessman Don Barden won over the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board with a casino proposal that represented the "best fit" for Pittsburgh and a personal charisma that spoke volumes about his dedication to the project.
Poor Whitey just doesn't stand a chance against blacks anymore, given his sad inability to generate charisma.
Another pertinent note about this whole arena/gambling debacle. When Three Rivers Stadium was demolished in 2001, more unpaid debt was still owed on its construction than what it cost originally to build in 1970, thanks to the magic of usery, the real engine of America's casino capitalism economy. Pittsburgh could have had an arena built at no cost, but instead, if one is built at all, the taxpayers/suckers will be stuck with the burden of its construction for decades to come.
Belowis the link to the P-G article. I didn't read all of it, so can't say whether it states anywhere that Barden also has a "room brightening smile."
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07033/758892-336.stmEdited by: Don Wassall
The process of picking the slot license winners in Pittsburgh and other Pennsylvania cities dragged on for over a year after the Pennsylvania legislature decided to sanction gambling (in addition to its long-established lotteries). Early on, the word on the street was that "the fix was in" when it came to Pittsburgh --Isle of Capri didn't have a chance, because politicians were receiving bribes to grant the casino license to Harrahs, which possesses much deeper pockets than Isle of Capri.
As it turns out, the winner of the slots license was Don Barden, a black businessman from Detroit.
Why did Barden win? According to today's Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, it was because of his "charisma." Yes, like all Negroes, Barden was gifted with great charisma. In fact, the very firstsentence of the article states:
Businessman Don Barden won over the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board with a casino proposal that represented the "best fit" for Pittsburgh and a personal charisma that spoke volumes about his dedication to the project.
Poor Whitey just doesn't stand a chance against blacks anymore, given his sad inability to generate charisma.
Another pertinent note about this whole arena/gambling debacle. When Three Rivers Stadium was demolished in 2001, more unpaid debt was still owed on its construction than what it cost originally to build in 1970, thanks to the magic of usery, the real engine of America's casino capitalism economy. Pittsburgh could have had an arena built at no cost, but instead, if one is built at all, the taxpayers/suckers will be stuck with the burden of its construction for decades to come.
Belowis the link to the P-G article. I didn't read all of it, so can't say whether it states anywhere that Barden also has a "room brightening smile."
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07033/758892-336.stmEdited by: Don Wassall
Realgeorge
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The Penguins are playing so well these days ...
Yes, the room-brightening smile. I recall a Boob-tube commerical from about 1971 where Bill Russell of NBA-fame was featured as a "brilliant entrepreneur businessman." "I talk to the client, feel him out, decide whether to do business" Mr. Russell deadpanned. Yeah right.
Well it's a sad story in Pittsburgh. To lose out to a slum-Warlord in Detroit is hideous. Somehow I feel the hand of The Tribe in this deal, not just a Detroit brother with lots of drug money.
Yes, the room-brightening smile. I recall a Boob-tube commerical from about 1971 where Bill Russell of NBA-fame was featured as a "brilliant entrepreneur businessman." "I talk to the client, feel him out, decide whether to do business" Mr. Russell deadpanned. Yeah right.
Well it's a sad story in Pittsburgh. To lose out to a slum-Warlord in Detroit is hideous. Somehow I feel the hand of The Tribe in this deal, not just a Detroit brother with lots of drug money.
Don Wassall said:
Ah yes, the smile, the charisma, the bad breath....
Ol' Don Barden is indeed a native Detroiter. He made his money in the cable business, he had the shrewd financial acumen to be a black man when the city of Detroit was handing out the rights to it's cable monopoly. He basically botched the whole thing but in government monopolies there are no losers (except the taxpayers).
He desperately wanted one of the Detroit Casino's but wasn't "Indian" enough. Michigan only grants casino licenses to Indian reservations. Somehow sections of Detroit became Indian-enough to build casino's on but Barden still wasn't "Indian" enough, however the Jews that own the casino's now somehow were, funny how that works.
Barden was determined though and I'm sure he searched high and low to find a city that couldn't turn down a brother with lots of cash, some well placed friends and a "charasmatic smile". Lucky Pittsburgh!!!!
Tomorrow looks like it may be the day that decides if the Penguins stay in Pittsburgh or not, as the team's owners are meeting with Pa. Gov. Ed Rendell
and NHL commish Gary Bettman
.
To briefly review -- after his ownership group bought the team out of bankruptcy in 1999, local and state politicians promised Mario Lemieux that a deal to build a new arena to replace Mellon Arena, now closing in on 50 years old, would be done promptly. Lemieux was subsequently jerked around for seven years with no serious negotiations.
After Pennsylvania became the latest state to allow casinos in order to be able to raise enough revenue to continue to function, the Penguins signed a contract with Isle of Capri, in which Isle of Capri would build a new arena for $290 million as long as it won the right to build the only casino in the city of Pittsburgh. That proposed arena would have cost the team, the state, and state taxpayers nothing.
Instead, the state in December awarded the slots license in Pittsburgh to an affirmative action candidate, Don Barden
(see posts above about the "charismatic" Barden). Since winning the lucrative license, Barden has distinguished himself by doing nothing about actually building his promised casino. Barden has now announced a six-month delay for the opening, quite impressive given that he's only had the slots license for three months.
In the meantime, due to Barden's affirmative inaction, the two losers in the slots license derby, Isle of Capri and Harrah's, are appealing the decision to give the license to Barden, which of course pushes the plans for a new arena back even further.
In recent negotiations between Rendell and the Penguins, Rendell reportedly engaged in yelling and pounding his fists on the table, bringing back memories of Kruschev at the UN. (A local sportscaster calls Rendell "Gov. Lansky," a reference to his Jewish background and the nature of his political dealings.)
The Penguins the other day officially declared negotiations at an impasse and that they were going to "aggressively" look at relocation options. They have an unbelievably nice offer to be the primary tenant of Kansas City's brand-new arena (no rent, no construction costs, half of the revenue from development of the surrounding area). The gut feeling of most observers is that the team wants to stay in Pittsburgh but won't do so unless it gets the deal it wants. So tomorrow's meeting is seen as pivotal. As the stomach turns. . .
To briefly review -- after his ownership group bought the team out of bankruptcy in 1999, local and state politicians promised Mario Lemieux that a deal to build a new arena to replace Mellon Arena, now closing in on 50 years old, would be done promptly. Lemieux was subsequently jerked around for seven years with no serious negotiations.
After Pennsylvania became the latest state to allow casinos in order to be able to raise enough revenue to continue to function, the Penguins signed a contract with Isle of Capri, in which Isle of Capri would build a new arena for $290 million as long as it won the right to build the only casino in the city of Pittsburgh. That proposed arena would have cost the team, the state, and state taxpayers nothing.
Instead, the state in December awarded the slots license in Pittsburgh to an affirmative action candidate, Don Barden
In the meantime, due to Barden's affirmative inaction, the two losers in the slots license derby, Isle of Capri and Harrah's, are appealing the decision to give the license to Barden, which of course pushes the plans for a new arena back even further.
In recent negotiations between Rendell and the Penguins, Rendell reportedly engaged in yelling and pounding his fists on the table, bringing back memories of Kruschev at the UN. (A local sportscaster calls Rendell "Gov. Lansky," a reference to his Jewish background and the nature of his political dealings.)
The Penguins the other day officially declared negotiations at an impasse and that they were going to "aggressively" look at relocation options. They have an unbelievably nice offer to be the primary tenant of Kansas City's brand-new arena (no rent, no construction costs, half of the revenue from development of the surrounding area). The gut feeling of most observers is that the team wants to stay in Pittsburgh but won't do so unless it gets the deal it wants. So tomorrow's meeting is seen as pivotal. As the stomach turns. . .
Maple Leaf
Mentor
Hockey was in KC before during the '70s -they were called the Chiefs- and the team packed up and left after a few years. I don't think KC will support hockey again in the long run. In KC the only really big industry is Hallmark cards. KC is a small market although it has about 1 million people, I think.
Pittsburg, St. Louis, and New Jersey are all clubs that are hurting at the gate and I suppose if a club is hurting at the gate nothing else matters.
The NHL needs to be back in more Canadian cities, that really want the game, like Quebec City, Winnipeg, and maybe even Halifax and Hamilton. But the U.S. dollar has prevented that from happening. When the U.S. dollar drops or when the Amero is instituted -whenever that may be- hockey will be back stronger in the country that wants it.
Pittsburg, St. Louis, and New Jersey are all clubs that are hurting at the gate and I suppose if a club is hurting at the gate nothing else matters.
The NHL needs to be back in more Canadian cities, that really want the game, like Quebec City, Winnipeg, and maybe even Halifax and Hamilton. But the U.S. dollar has prevented that from happening. When the U.S. dollar drops or when the Amero is instituted -whenever that may be- hockey will be back stronger in the country that wants it.
Maple Leaf said:
Pittsburghhas supportedthe Penguins very well at the gate, including for the most part through the period when they were the worst teamorvery close to itfor four straight seasons. This year there were some non-sellouts early, but since then it's been SRO crowds and will be through the rest of the regular season, and the playoffs if they make them. It's all about the city and state squandering a great thing (an arena that would have been built for free by a private gambling firm) and whether they can now offer a good enough deal since the Penguins finally have a lot of leverage with Kansas City offering a sweetheart deal.
I do agree with you about Canada. Winnepeg and Quebec supported their teams well and didn't deserve to lose them. The Canadian dollar and corporate sponsorship less than what U.S. cities offer up to keep teams is what really hurt.
Both the Devils and Islanders draw poorly; it's obvious the New York market can't support three teams. The Southern teams usually draw poorly when their teams aren't doing well. There are certainly candidates to move to Canada, but Pittsburgh is a good market for the league. Add in the amazing young talent they now have combined with a new arena, and the Penguins can do well in Pittsburgh for a long time.
Maple Leaf
Mentor
I use the word "gate" quite loosely. What I really mean is revenue. If revenues in Pittsburg were great, even with the old arena, they would want to stay put.
Although they are no original six team, I look at Pittsburg as one of the older teams in the league. I remember when Rick Kehoe was their capitain. The Penguins have an established clientel and should stay there. It would be best for the team, the city, and the league.
Although they are no original six team, I look at Pittsburg as one of the older teams in the league. I remember when Rick Kehoe was their capitain. The Penguins have an established clientel and should stay there. It would be best for the team, the city, and the league.
foreverfree
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Maple Leaf said:
I wonder if they ever consulted Lamar Hunt about the name?
I believe the KC team was called the Scouts (even took Simon Nolet from the newly crowned Stanley Cup champion Phila. Flyers in the expansion draft) and had a logo reproducing the Indian scout statue that stands on a hill overlooking downtown KC. The Scouts played in KC at the Kemper Arena on the state line, then became the Colorado Rockies (years before the baseball team of that name) and then the New Jersey Devils. As the Rockies, the team had a cool logo (a Colorado flag shaped like Pikes Peak).
John
foreverfree
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Maple Leaf
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Scouts...I stand corrected. I don't know what I was thinking.
Today's a great day for hockey in Pittsburgh -- the deal is finally done and a new arena will be built and the Penguins are staying put.
I'm like most here and root for individual players rather than teams, but have always been a fan of the Penguins. The team looks to be strong for years to come, too. Awesome!
I'm like most here and root for individual players rather than teams, but have always been a fan of the Penguins. The team looks to be strong for years to come, too. Awesome!
foreverfree
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Don Wassall said:Today's a great day for hockey in Pittsburgh -- the deal is finally done and a new arena will be built and the Penguins are staying put.ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ
I'm like most here and root for individual players rather than teams, but have always been a fan of the Penguins. The team looks to be strong for years to come, too. Awesome!
I'm happy for the Pens, too, Don, and I've seen the outside of the Igloo up close, but I imagine it will be imploded when the new arena is built. Makes me think of what my stepdad, watching Philly's 33-yo Vet being imploded on Fox News Channel 3 years ago, said. He said, "What a waste of money and natural resources."
John