Pat Tillman

Colonel_Reb

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I hope this is appropriate for this part of the board. I just read the Caste Football linked article on Pat Tillman's parents and the controversy surrounding his death. I wonder what really happened. Sounds like from that article that we'll never know. I can see how the army would cover it up and why. It's definitely not the first time it has happened. I just hate it for his parents who can only wonder what happened. It's just a sad and angering story.
 

White Shogun

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Although I should probably re-read the article in question before
commenting, I remember reading an article about Tillman's death, in
which it was disclosed that he was killed by friendly fire. I recall
that it was even men from his own Ranger Bat who opened fire on him and
others, who had earlier taken a defensive position on a hillside.



The unit had been split because of a broken down vehicle that had to be
taken back to a nearby base. Tillman's unit was involved in a small
fire fight, I believe, and when the rest of the unit showed as backup,
the firefight had already ended (unbeknownst to them, of course.)
Tillman's unit was accompanied by Afghani fighters, and some of them
were apparently visible and were what drew the arriving Ranger's fire.



According to the article, witnesses said Tillman leaped to his feet,
began waving his arms and shouting cease fire, when he was hit.



Regardless of how good (or not) he was as a football player, and no
matter how inglorious his death, the man should be commended and held
in the highest esteem, IMO, for giving up a career as a professional
athlete to serve his country in time of war. When so many others,
with so much less to lose, refuse to serve and even belittle those who
do, so much greater does it make what he risked in order to do
so.


Edited by: White Shogun
 

Colonel_Reb

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I hope it does a decent and fair job of covering his career and life, not like so much revisionist BS I've seen on those shows before.
 

White_Savage

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For giving up a well-paid athletic career to fight and risk death in a war mandated by the Neo-Cons and Israel, Pat Tillman was a brave, beautiful, wonderfull fool, and a good example of how white downfall is often brought about by white virtue.

If I may muse abit, the classic Aryan fashion of bravery and self-sacrifice is nothing like that of superficially similar examples, say that of the Samurai warrior. To the Oriental mind, the individual existence is unimportant or non-existent in comparison to the group (family, warrior clan, nation). The individual is an appendage of the group. Individual sacrifice is as natural, as expected and unremarked, as blocking a blow aimed at the head with your arm is. It is at most, the logical use of a less valuable (or otherwise value-less) appendage to shield a vital organ. For the Semitic, the individual is also a non-issue, only this time, it is subordinated to the Idea...The idea of the Chosen, of the Law, of Yaweh or Allah or Jihad, before which humanity is nothing but a skin disease on a dirtball, upon which God illogically and inexplicably chooses to lavish his love intermittent with his wrath. A dirty wretched worm-human soul burning itself in the pure light of an all perfect God is no tragedy.

Only the Caucasoid mind naturally regards itself as an end in itself, whole and complete, though not disconnected, from other individuals, worthy to exist by it's own merits before the universe and the divine. Only Whites have historically taught their children to nurture their individuality, to make their claims as individuals against the group and the universe to any degree at all, while all other cultures bend their offspring solely and entirely to the standards and will of the larger entity. Only Caucasians believe a group will be successful primarily if it is made up of strong and good individuals. Only the Caucasian could have invented individual rights, or science, which requires one to view one's self as a rational observer of phemonena occuring outside one's self. Only the Caucasian, when he sacrifices himself in anyway to a larger cause therefore, actually philosophically believes he is sacrificing something. Only whole and pure love of something, of a person, a country, an ideal, even one's own honor, rather than the edict of the group, natural order, or God, is the reason the Aryan hazards his own destruction in the purest cases.

It is a beautiful, beautiful thing. It is probably why the Christ story appeals so to whites, even though the religion is otherwise so full of alien Semitic elements.
It is also easily turned against us. The most intelligent of the aliens see pureness of heart in the best of us and instinctively hate us beyond words for having something they will never have-seperate existence, and love that makes such that existence bearable. And the most craftily intelligent see how to take advantage of it.

The majority of people in the U.S. backed the Iraq war because it was made a matter of honor to us. The radical leftist antis, the cheese-eating Frogs goaded us into something that might have actually been rationally considered otherwise. And it was deliberate, oh so deliberate IMO, the laughable opposition of the U.N., the ridiculous protests in the streets designed to anger rather than persuade anyone of anything. The majority of whites bend over backwards to give the alien races much more than is reasonably their due because they have been brainwashed into believing honor requires it, that the abuses and discrimination whites suffer now can somehow possibly be just payment for the actions of whites long dead against those also long dead. Because whites treat themselves as creatures who actually exist, they can treat other humans and creatures as actually existing, and thus pity them. This our enemies use to parasite us endlessly.
The only thing for us to do is learn from our mistakes.
 

White Shogun

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Savage, are you some kind of author? Ever written a book, or of mind to do so? Awesome statement, friend.



Although I doubt I could say it quite so eloquently, I have also
recognized that individuality is an idea found only in Caucasian
cultures. You can find its hearbeat in the ancient religions of
Europeans, who did not seek succor and aid from the gods but just asked
of them assistance, as one might a friend or relative. Indeed,
ancient northern European peoples considered themselves as part of the
same family as the gods, not made by them or subservient to them.



I have often felt that we (Caucasian peoples) are our own worst enemy,
in that we expect others to act and respond as we do, when even a
cursory glance of the last 100 years of history evidence otherwise.



I would add more, but I'm afraid anything I might add will just
distract from your post, Savage, so I'll stop here and just say that I
agree that even though Tillman perhaps was a fool, he was still a brave
one. And unfortunately for us Caucasians, we still admire that trait,
regardless of the wisdom in it.
smiley9.gif
 

Colonel_Reb

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So exactly what role does vitue play in all this, what is considered virtue, and should virtue even matter to us anymore?

How can we live without making some type of sacrifice?
 

White_Savage

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Reb: Oh, sacrifice of this sort is always a noble thing, but only a useful thing when it's for the right cause...such as the preservation of Western civilization and the White race, the only cause that should matter to us right now. Our towel-head troubles are ultimately the result of meddling in the ancient race war between the two branches of the Semitic family tree, in which we back the people that actually hate whites more and do more more damage to white society. It does not take away from the bravery and honor of our soldiers to acknowledge that we probably haven't actually fought a war for the real benefit of our people since we took Texas from Mexico.
 

Colonel_Reb

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White_Savage said:

It does not take away from the bravery and honor of our soldiers to acknowledge that we probably haven't actually fought a war for the real benefit of our people since we took Texas from Mexico.


I agree with that completely from the perspective of the US!
smiley4.gif


Deo Vindice!
 

Don Wassall

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American hero Pat Tillman is going to be inducted into the "Ring of Honor" in the Cardinals' new stadium this weekend (bet there aren't too many other honorees in that sadsack franchise's ring).


The Pentagon is incapable of telling the truth when it comes to Tillman's death and I'll bet the Cardinals sure won't tell the truth about his football career. Because if they doit will have to sound something like this:


"Pat Tillman was a standout linebacker at Arizona State who because of his intelligence and great athleticism made the successful transition to safety in the NFL. Tillman was the most productive safety in the league during his four years in the NFL, finishing his career with 479 tackles, an average of 120 per season, in spite of often being a backup rather than a starter. In fact, Tillman had over 200 tackles one season. How many NFL linebackers ever record 200 tackles in a season, much less a safety?


"Yet sadly, despite hisamazing performance on the field, Tillman was routinely demoted when he was a starter and a constant stream of God's Chosen Affletes were brought in for the sole purpose of replacing him. Writers, announcers and fans routinely made fun of his supposed lack of athleticism.


"It was only after he left the lucrative life of the NFL and joined the Army as an elite Special Forces soldier, that Cardinals fans and Americans everywhere were to realize just how special Pat Tillman was as a person. His personal qualities and abilities as a warrior were even more outstanding than his considerable athletic skills. The management of the Arizona Cardinals apologizes on behalf of the NFL for stereotyping and discriminating against Pat Tillman because of his race and as a tribute to his legacy pledges to henceforth hire and play the best players regardless of their racial background."
 
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I read several articles on Pat Tillman's death that were published the last few days. You can find them with a web search. The problem has been that the Army didn't tell the truth about what happened. PR flacks created a story of Tillman leading a charge up a hill and being killed during a successful battle. Actually, he was shot by his own men when his unit CO ineptly split up the platoon.

Earlier the Army lied that female soldier Jessica Lynch (a more desirable symbol than Tillman to today's army) had been captured after firing all her ammo and swinging her empty rifle as a club at Saddam's hordes. Actually, Miss Lynch was knocked out when her truck overturned and never fired her weapon.

Three Rangers, led by the squad leader, had fired in Tillman's direction. First they killed a friendly Afghan scout. Tillman fired a smoke grenade and yelled for them to stop. He was then hit by three rounds in the head, killing him instantly. The three men were repremanded and dismissed from the Rangers. The squad leader was forced out of the army. The other two are also out of the army and have been jailed for drunk and disorderly conduct in civilian life.

I was going to post something about rhe irony of the Cardinals and the NFL honoring Pat Tillman, when they and the fans strongly disdain athletes of his type. Don beat me to it.
 

Tom Iron

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Hello gentlemen


I've been monitoring Caste Football and have posted once before. I'd just like to say a few things about this situation about Pat Tillman. First of all, I don't know why anyone had to lie about how he got killed in the first place. Such things as happened to Pat Tillman happen all the time in combat. It's nothing new. It happened to Stonewall Jackson. There are all sorts of ways men get killed in combat zones. There are many accidents as well. People get run over just like they do here in the states. A guy I know fell down a well in Nam and drowned, not very heroic. Sometimes there is faulty gear, ammo,etc. In the Spanish American war, there were more casualties from botulism than from enemy action.


I also don't know why people can't accept that their loved one is dead anymore. Tillman is dead for some time now and the sun comes up every day and we (his relatives as well) have to get up each day and go about our business. It's time to move on from this.
 

Don Wassall

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This is the best day the justice system in this country has had in a long time. St. Michael Vick entered his plea while hundreds booed his appearance at a federal courthouse, Mike "The Witchhunter" Nifong apologized and admitted there was "no credible evidence" against the three Duke lacrosse players accused of rape, and now this concerning the whitewash and cover up of how Pat Tillman died:


Army Secretary to recommend retired general be demoted


WASHINGTON -- Army Secretary Peter Geren is expected to recommend that a retired three-star general be demoted for his role in providing misleading information about the death of Army Ranger and former Arizona Cardinals star Pat Tillman, military officials say, in what would be a stinging and rare rebuke.



<DIV =inlinequote>
dropQuote.gif

<H3>I'm not satisfied with any of it.
dropQuoteEnd.gif
</H3>


-- Mary Tillman, on the impending punishments of high-ranking Army officers





Lt. Gen. Philip Kensinger, who headed Army special operations, is one of seven high-ranking Army officers expected to get official reprimands for making critical errors in reporting the circumstances of Tillman's friendly-fire shooting in Afghanistan in April 2004.





The officials requested anonymity because the punishments under consideration by Geren have not been made public. The Army said that no final decisions have been made, and that once they are and the Tillman family and Congress have been notified, there will be an announcement sometime next week.





Geren also is considering issuing a letter of censure to Kensinger, who is receiving the harshest punishment of those involved in what has become a three-year controversy that triggered more than half a dozen investigations. Five other officers, including three generals, are expected to be issued less severe letters criticizing their actions.





Army officials opted not to impose harsher punishments, which could have included additional demotions, dishonorable discharges or even jail time. One senior officer, Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal, commander of the Joint Special Operations Command, escaped punishment.





Tillman's death received worldwide attention because he had walked away from a huge contract with the National Football League's Arizona Cardinals to enlist in the Army after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.





Tillman's mother, Mary, said the impending punishments were inadequate.





"I'm not satisfied with any of it," she said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.





She rejected the Pentagon's characterization of the officers' offenses as "errors" in reporting Tillman's death, when several officers have said they had made conscious decisions not to tell Tillman's family that friendly fire was suspected.





Geren's pending decisions come four months after two investigative reports found that Army officers provided misleading and inaccurate information about Tillman's death. A central issue in the case has been why the Army waited about five weeks after it suspected the former NFL star's death was caused by friendly fire before telling his family.





The probes found that nine officers, including four generals, were at fault in providing the bad information and should be held accountable. But the reports determined that there was no criminal wrongdoing in the actual shooting, and that there was no deliberate cover-up.





Geren then tapped Gen. William Wallace to review the probes and recommend disciplinary actions. Wallace disagreed with initial findings against McChrystal, according to the military officials.





But Wallace also surprised Army officials by singling out a 10th officer for rebuke -- one who had not been blamed in the earlier reports.





Brig. Gen. Gina Farrisee, who is director of military personnel management at the Pentagon, is expected to receive a letter of punishment for her involvement in the oversight of the awarding of Tillman's Silver Star.





Two others who were blamed in earlier reports are also expected to receive letters of admonishment: Brig. Gen. Gary Jones, who led one of the early Army investigations into the matter, and now-Brig. Gen. James C. Nixon, who was Tillman's regimental commander.





Jones, now retired from the Army, was faulted for failing to address several issues in his probe, leading to speculation that Army officials were concealing information about Tillman's death.





Nixon was criticized for failing to ensure that Tillman's family was told.





The names of the three lower level officers expected to be punished have not been released by the military, but they are likely among the five who were blamed -- but also not named -- in the earlier investigations.





According to an AP analysis of the reports and other documents, those five officers include then-Capt. Richard Scott, who conducted the first investigation into the shooting; then-Lt. Col. Ralph Kauzlarich, who conducted the second; and then-Lt. Col. Jeff Bailey, the battalion commander who oversaw Tillman's platoon and played a role in the recommendation for his Silver Star. Officials would not say if any of those three were among the ones recommended for rebuke.





It is no surprise that Kensinger, 60, is targeted for the most severe punishment. An investigation by the Defense Department's inspector general found "compelling evidence that Kensinger learned of suspected fratricide well before the memorial service and provided misleading testimony" on that issue. That misrepresentation, the report said, could constitute a "false official statement," a violation of the Military Code of Justice.





Farrisee's rebuke is tied to the Army recommendations that Tillman receive the Silver Star. The investigations found that Army officials were aware that Tillman was likely killed by friendly fire even as they were moving ahead with the medal that was awarded for heroism in the face of the enemy.





If Geren does recommend to Defense Secretary Robert Gates that Kensinger lose a star and be demoted to major general, that would trigger a decrease in his retirement pension and benefits.





The letters of rebuke for the others could also be crippling blows. They can include letters of concern, reprimand or censure, with escalating degrees of gravity.





"For officers generally, a reprimand is a devastating career injury," said Eugene Fidell, a lawyer who specializes in military cases and teaches at American University's Washington College of Law. "It can trigger an effort to throw the person out of the military, it can trigger a reduction in pay grade when the time comes to retire, it can prevent a future promotion, and it can gum up a promotion that has already been decided."





For a one-star general, Fidell said, it could mean they are likely to never get a second star. And, he said, a lower level officer, such as a captain, "would have to dig out of a deep hole to continue his or her career. Letters of reprimand are truly bad news."


Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2949768
 

Menelik

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Friendly fire...isn't.
smiley11.gif
 

Don Wassall

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Was Tillman Murdered?


The Associated Press


Thursday 26 July 2007
<BLOCKQUOTE>AP gets new documents.</BLOCKQUOTE>





San Francisco - Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.


"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.


The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.


Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a criminal investigation, and asked Tillman's comrades whether he was disliked by his men and whether they had any reason to believe he was deliberately killed. The Pentagon eventually ruled that Tillman's death at the hands of his comrades was a friendly-fire accident.


The medical examiners' suspicions were outlined in 2,300 pages of testimony released to the AP this week by the Defense Department in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.


Among other information contained in the documents:
<UL>
<LI>In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."



<LI>Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.



<LI>The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman's death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.



<LI>No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene - no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.</LI>[/list]


The Pentagon and the Bush administration have been criticized in recent months for lying about the circumstances of Tillman's death. The military initially told the public and the Tillman family that he had been killed by enemy fire. Only weeks later did the Pentagon acknowledge he was gunned down by fellow Rangers.


With questions lingering about how high in the Bush administration the deception reached, Congress is preparing for yet another hearing next week.


The Pentagon is separately preparing a new round of punishments, including a stinging demotion of retired Lt. Gen. Philip R. Kensinger Jr., 60, according to military officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because the punishments under consideration have not been made public.


In more than four hours of questioning by the Pentagon inspector general's office in December 2006, Kensinger repeatedly contradicted other officers' testimony, and sometimes his own. He said on some 70 occasions that he did not recall something.


At one point, he said: "You've got me really scared about my brain right now. I'm really having a problem."


Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, who has long suggested that her son was deliberately killed by his comrades, said she is still looking for answers and looks forward to the congressional hearings next week.


"Nothing is going to bring Pat back. It's about justice for Pat and justice for other soldiers. The nation has been deceived," she said.


The documents show that a doctor who autopsied Tillman's body was suspicious of the three gunshot wounds to the forehead. The doctor said he took the unusual step of calling the Army's Human Resources Command and was rebuffed. He then asked an official at the Army's Criminal Investigation Division if the CID would consider opening a criminal case.


"He said he talked to his higher headquarters and they had said no," the doctor testified.


Also according to the documents, investigators pressed officers and soldiers on a question Mrs. Tillman has been asking all along.


"Have you, at any time since this incident occurred back on April 22, 2004, have you ever received any information even rumor that Cpl. Tillman was killed by anybody within his own unit intentionally?" an investigator asked then-Capt. Richard Scott.


Scott, and others who were asked, said they were certain the shooting was accidental.


Investigators also asked soldiers and commanders whether Tillman was disliked, whether anyone was jealous of his celebrity, or if he was considered arrogant. They said Tillman was respected, admired and well-liked.


http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/072707J.shtml
 

DixieDestroyer

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I'm certainly no pinko peacenik, BUT nothing (Globalist Elite controlled) "Uncle Scam" pulls would shock me these days...

New Evidence Clearly Indicates Pat Tillman Was Executed

Army medical examiners concluded Tillman was shot three times in the head from just 10 yards away, no evidence of "friendly fire" damage at scene, Army attorneys congratulated each other on cover-up, Wesley Clark concludes "orders came from the very top" to murder pro-football star because he was about to become an anti-war political icon

Prison Planet | July 27, 2007
Paul Joseph Watson

Astounding new details surrounding the death of Pat Tillman clearly indicate that top brass decided to execute the former pro football star in cold blood to prevent him from returning home and becoming an anti-war icon.

These same criminals then engaged in a sophisticated conspiracy to create a phony "friendly fire" cover story.

Shocking new facts emerged about the case last night but were bizarrely underplayed by the Associated Press under nondescript headlines like 'New Details on Tillman's Death' - a complete disservice to the horrific implications that the new evidence carries.


Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.

The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away .

The report also states that "No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene - no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck."

The article also reveals that "Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments."

So there was no evidence whatsoever of friendly fire, but the ballistics data clearly indicated that the three head shots had been fired from just 10 yards away and then the Army tried to concoct a hoax friendly fire story and sent gloating back-slapping e mails congratulating each other on their success while preventing the doctors from exploring the possibility of murder. How can any sane and rational individual weigh this evidence and not come to the conclusion that Tillman was deliberately gunned down in cold blood?

The evidence points directly to it and the motivation is clear - Tillman abandoned a lucrative career in pro-football immediately after 9/11 because he felt a rampaging patriotic urge to defend his country, and became a poster child for the war on terror as a result. But when he discovered that the invasion of Iraq was based on a mountain of lies and deceit and had nothing to do with defending America, he became infuriated and was ready to return home to become an anti-war hero.

As far back as March 2003, immediately after the invasion, Tillman famously told his comrade Spc. Russell Baer, "You know, this war is so f**king illegal," and urged his entire platoon to vote against Bush in the 2004 election. Far from the gung-ho gruff stereotype attributed to him, Tillman was actually a fiercely intellectual man with the courage of his convictions firmly in place.

Tillman had even begun to arrange meetings with anti-war icons like Noam Chomsky upon his return to America before his death cut short any aspirations of becoming a focal point for anti-war sentiment.

According to Daily Kos , Wesley Clark appeared on Keith Olbermann's Countdown last night and stated that "the orders came from the very top" to murder Tillman as he was a political symbol and his opposition to the war in Iraq would have rallied the population around supporting immediate withdrawal.

The notion that the U.S. government gave orders for Army top brass to execute Pat Tillman in cold blood is the most damaging indictment of the Iraq war since it began, trumping the lies about weapons of mass destruction tenfold, but if the establishment media continue to soft-peddle and steam-valve one of the biggest stories of the century its impact will be completely diluted.

It is up to us to make this story go viral because the implications are so dire that they could act as the final death knell for the blood-soaked and illegal occupation of Iraq and become the clarion call to bring our troops home.

***Reference article...

[url]http://www.infowars.com/articles/military/tillman_new_eviden ce_indicates_tillman_executed.htm [/url]
 

C Darwin

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http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1415

Wednesday, August 01, 2007
Defense and Security, The Tillman Fratricide

The Tillman Fratricide: What the Leadership of the Defense Department Knew

On Wednesday, August 1, 2007, at 10:00 a.m. in 2154 Rayburn House Office Building, the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform will hold a hearing to examine what senior Defense Department officials knew about U.S. Army Corporal Patrick Tillman's death by fratricide.

In April, the Committee held a hearing investigating the death of Cpl. Tillman.

The following witnesses will testify:

The Honorable Donald Rumsfeld, former Secretary of Defense

Gen. John P. Abizaid (Retired), Former Commander, U.S. Central Command

Gen. Richard B. Myers (Retired), Former Chair, Joint Chiefs of Staff

Gen. Bryan Douglas Brown (Retired), Former Commander, U.S. Special Operations Command

Lt. Gen. Philip R. Kensinger, Jr. (Retired), Former Commander, U.S. Special Operations Command

How this is covered in the media will be very telling.
 

gsm1988

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Another theory I have heard (this may or may not be very surprising) is that the government killed him. I don't want to believe that, but I unfortunately wouldn't be surprised, since our government lies to us constantly and continues to get more and more tyrannical. Regardless of what happened, I don't think we will ever get the complete truth, at least not from the media. When does the media ever give us the truth?
 
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The first story the Army put out was that Pat Tillman was killed while charging up a hill under enemy fire. A lie, it soon turned out.

I read several articles that said that Tillman was shot as a result of being mistaken for the enemy at considerable distance. These accounts had him shot by a .50 caliber machine gun. Now, Tillman is supposed to have been killed by M16's at close range? The M16 fires .556 mm (.223 cal) rounds, a big difference. Can this be determined, one way or another?
 

Menelik

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sport historian said:
The first story the Army put out was that Pat Tillman was killed while charging up a hill under enemy fire. A lie, it soon turned out.

I read several articles that said that Tillman was shot as a result of being mistaken for the enemy at considerable distance. These accounts had him shot by a .50 caliber machine gun. Now, Tillman is supposed to have been killed by M16's at close range? The M16 fires .556 mm (.223 cal) rounds, a big difference. Can this be determined, one way or another?

Yes it can. By the way the bullets are 5.56mm. Any decent forensic test would have shown the exact type of munition that Tillman was shot with. The body was not under duress when it was recovered and since the unit never took enemy fire the investigators would have known exactly who shot Tillman. A simple equipment check would have figured that one out. This whole scene to me, retired army, is all FUBAR
smiley7.gif
Edited by: Menelik
 

DixieDestroyer

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I've no doubt those vermin who bow to their Globalist overlords are hiding something...

Censured general evades subpoena to appear before Tillman hearing

Michael Roston
Raw Story
Wednesday, August 1, 2007

Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) revealed in a Wednesday hearing that Lieutenant General Philip Kensinger, who was censured Tuesday by the Army for deceiving investigators regarding the announcement of the death of Army Specialist Pat Tillman, has evaded a subpoena issued by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.

"General Kensinger refused to appear today," Chairman Waxman said in his opening statement. "His attorney informed the committee that General Kensinger would not testify voluntarily, and if issued a subpoena would seek to evade service. The committee did issue a subpoena to General Kensinger earlier this week, but US Marshals have been unable to locate or serve him."

The announcement came at the start of a hearing on the friendly fire death of Tillman, an NFL player who joined the Army after the 9/11 attacks. At the time, Tillman's example was highlighted by the Bush administration to praise the heroism of Americans voluntarily fighting in the 'Global War on Terrorism' before fratricide was revealed to be the cause of his death. Wednesday's hearing focused on what Defense Department officials knew about the cause of Tillman's death.

***Article link -

[url]http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2007/010807_b_til lman.htm[/url]
 
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Dec 18, 2004
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Don Wassall said:
American hero Pat Tillman is going to be inducted into the "Ring of Honor" in the Cardinals' new stadium this weekend (bet there aren't too many other honorees in that sadsack franchise's ring).


The Pentagon is incapable of telling the truth when it comes to Tillman's death and I'll bet the Cardinals sure won't tell the truth about his football career.  Because if they do it will have to sound something like this:


"Pat Tillman was a standout linebacker at Arizona State who because of his intelligence and great athleticism made the successful transition to safety in the NFL.  Tillman was the most productive safety in the league during his four years in the NFL, finishing his career with 479 tackles, an average of 120 per season, in spite of often being a backup rather than a starter.  In fact, Tillman had over 200 tackles one season.  How many NFL linebackers ever record 200 tackles in a season, much less a safety? 


"Yet sadly, despite his amazing performance on the field, Tillman was routinely demoted when he was a starter and a constant stream of God's Chosen Affletes were brought in for the sole purpose of replacing him.  Writers, announcers and fans routinely made fun of his supposed lack of athleticism. 


"It was only after he left the lucrative life of the NFL and joined the Army as an elite Special Forces soldier, that Cardinals fans and Americans everywhere were to realize just how special Pat Tillman was as a person.  His personal qualities and abilities as a warrior were even more outstanding than his considerable athletic skills.  The management of the Arizona Cardinals apologizes on behalf of the NFL for stereotyping and discriminating against Pat Tillman because of his race and as a tribute to his legacy pledges to henceforth hire and play the best players regardless of their racial background."

"Writers, announcers, and fans routinely made fun of his supposed lack of athleticism."

I've been looking back at threads about Pat Tillman. The above reflects what I have thought Tillman's motivation for joining the army might have been, at least in part.

Did the fact that Pat Tillman was mocked by fans and media types have something to do with his enlisting? I have often wondered.
 

Solomon Kane

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it's the strangest thing to make fun of a player for being "unathletic". Youmake fun of a player (if you can make fun of anyone) for playing badly.or praise him for playing well. a players athleticism(as the word is used today anyway) is unimportant to the sporting endeavour.

As this site has said many times, "unathletic" is a word invented by the caste media to put fine white players in their place.

Suppose a player is genuinely athletic, but plays poorly...who cares about his "athleticism"?
 

whiteathlete33

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Solomon Kane said:
it's the strangest thing to make fun of a player for being "unathletic". Youmake fun of a player (if you can make fun of anyone) for playing badly.or praise him for playing well. a players athleticism(as the word is used today anyway) is unimportant to the sporting endeavour.
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<div>As this site has said many times, "unathletic" is a word invented by the caste media to put fine white players in their place.</div>
<div></div>
<div>Suppose a player is genuinely athletic, but plays poorly...who cares about his "athleticism"?</div>

The term "unathletic" is bull at least on the professional sports level. How can you call a player "unathletic" when he's playing at the highest level? Every player at the skill positions has to have good athleticism or else he wouldn't be there.
 

Don Wassall

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I was reading a summary of tight ends on a prominent fantasy football site the other day. When writing about Brent Celek the author noted the great season he had last year, including being second in the league among TEs in plays gaining over 20 yards. But he also twice claimed he lacked "athleticism." As we've noted before, Celek is routinely called non-athletic, as are many White players in the NFL. I emailed the writer, asking him to explain how a non-athlete could be so productive and have such big play ability. No reply.
 
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