NFL Combine

[Guest]

It makes me so frustrated to hear people call these 4o times ok. These are the exact times players like wes welker got criticised for running, annd now that blacks are running them the announcers say, "o its ok hes a 4.6 40 all four quarters." That makes no friggin sense. It just goes to show that white athletes will be criticized until some jesse owens type character for white people arises. There needs to be somebody so good that every stereotpe is thrown out the door and racial profiling killed for good.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

So you think that Knowshon Moreno who ran a 4.61, Chris Wells, 4.59; Shoon Greene 4.64 (3 of the top 6 backs or so with Moreno and Wells being considered the top) won't get a shot...yawn. Other years: Amhad Bradshaw; 4.6, Travis Henry, 4.61; Brian Westbrook 4.57; Brandon Jacobs, 4.56; Lets keep going Shaun Alexander, 4.58; Terrell Davis and Emmitt Smith 4.6.

The point is; yeah your average "starter" probably runs around a 4.5 at the combine, but after a few years they might slow a little and there are slow years like this one.

If I dug up my list Brutal/Texas Tech/ Maximus; which I have saved somewhere. I could definitely name more than 40 guys since 2000 who were drafted and ran 4.55 or slower ie. NFLdraftscout.com (I'm pretty sure I recall it's more than 40 as of last draft since 2000) Some of them are very successful like the guys I mentioned. I'll have to compile a list for this troll at some point which is a fuller picture than his list..yawn.

The weird thing is you must have left a few RBs out. Draftdaddy.com compiled the electronic average for tailbacks at 4.56 last year. Did you use the adjusted official times? And you should have maybe included Jacob Hester as a tailback b/c that's what he played in college.

Luckily for Jacob he was treated pretty fairly by the draft process, but was given zero playing time this playoffs even with LT hurt and Sproles struggling against Pittsburgh when Hester had played brilliantly just a couple weeks earlier. The Chargers should have used Sproles and Hester as a 1-2 punch. Instead they only played Sproles, but found a few carries for that over the hill bum Michael Bennett.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

I see Brutal/ Maximus/ Texas Tech's post was deleted so I won't need to go through the process of pulling out drafted RB times in the last 9 years (since 2000) to prove that at least a third of them ran 4.55 or slower. As I said the median time for "starters" is around 4.5 by my research, but players slow a little in the coming few years after their Combine performances (injuries, age, a little out of shape) and the backup average is slightly slower.

Brutal/ Texas Tech must be very frustrated about his precious top RBs performances this year. Looks like Jacob Hester measures up fine to 4 of the top 6 or 7 RBs this year (if you include Rashad Jennings as one) in 40 yard speed.

This is a big victory for us to convince DWFs of the caste system. Wells, Moreno, Greene, Jennings are considered stars; "they just play fast", "forget the 40 times" etc.

Wes Welker never was afforded that same luxury; he was cut and then almost cut again by Nick Saban even when he had shown brilliant play in training camp and pre-season that year. It's truly amazing he made it through.

Knowshon Moreno is a great player, but there are whites out there like him too! Is there a white Barry Sanders? Maybe not (although you can't prove it for sure). But there are white Pro-bowl caliber RBs; I know it from comparing film of the elite H.S prospects.

 

[White Power]

could someone please post a link I am curious as to what time some white players posted in the 40 yard dash in particular. I can't find times for some white players.

 

[dwid]

I see Brutal/ Maximus/ Texas Tech's post was deleted so I won't need to go through the process of pulling out drafted RB times in the last 9 years (since 2000) to prove that at least a third of them ran 4.55 or slower. As I said the median time for "starters" is around 4.5 by my research, but players slow a little in the coming few years after their Combine performances (injuries, age, a little out of shape) and the backup average is slightly slower.

Brutal/ Texas Tech must be very frustrated about his precious top RBs performances this year. Looks like Jacob Hester measures up fine to 4 of the top 6 or 7 RBs this year (if you include Rashad Jennings as one) in 40 yard speed.

This is a big victory for us to convince DWFs of the caste system. Wells, Moreno, Greene, Jennings are considered stars; "they just play fast", "forget the 40 times" etc.

Wes Welker never was afforded that same luxury; he was cut and then almost cut again by Nick Saban even when he had shown brilliant play in training camp and pre-season that year. It's truly amazing he made it through.

Knowshon Moreno is a great player, but there are whites out there like him too! Is there a white Barry Sanders? Maybe not (although you can't prove it for sure). But there are white Pro-bowl caliber RBs; I know it from comparing film of the elite H.S prospects.

i was wondering who you were talking to in the previous post hehe, i never saw his post

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2009/combine/wr.html

I hate this site but they are the first site I found posting full results. This site is extremely caste and if you bring up racial stereotyping at all in sports in their forums they will ban you. You can bash white players all you want there in the forums and their site ranking "experts" are even worse than the typical forum poster. You can talk about players stereotyped due to size, but don't dare say the word white there..."oh no, lock that man up, he said white!"..."Take it easy man, I meant Pat White dawg, you know I love the black QB!"
"Well, I guess you can say black!"

 

[Don Wassall]

edit: are you sure Andrew Means is White?

I just watched him run and he looks black to me (light-skinned offspring of a black parent and a white parent would be my guess).

 

[backrow]

Brian Cushing was second amongst the LBs with 30 reps on bench, McKillop was 6th with 27.

EDIT: not every LB lifted yet from what i gather.Edited by: backrow

 

[dwid]

could someone please post a link I am curious as to what time some white players posted in the 40 yard dash in particular. I can't find times for some white players.

Austin Collie and Brian Hartline ran in the 4.5 range, Andrew Means 4.44 and Nate Swift 4.64, all but andrew means came in top ten in the 3 cone drill and the 60 yard shuttle. Brian Hartline and Andrew Means came in top ten on the 20 yard shuttle. Collie came in top ten for bench presses with 17 reps.
not sure of the exact official times for the 40s, just know Andrew Means was in the 4.4's, Austin Collie and Hartline in the 4.5's and Nate Swift in the 4.6's

edit: someone just posted a site with all the times

im suprised at all the receivers heights, only 2 that are above 6'2. I thought they were going for taller receivers like the 6'3 Michael Crabtree, wait he was 6'1 heh.
edit: bad miscount theres around 5 that are above 6'2, one being 6'3 with a majority of them being 6'1 or lowerEdited by: dwid

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

I see Brutal/ Maximus/ Texas Tech's post was deleted so I won't need to go through the process of pulling out drafted RB times in the last 9 years (since 2000) to prove that at least a third of them ran 4.55 or slower. As I said the median time for "starters" is around 4.5 by my research, but players slow a little in the coming few years after their Combine performances (injuries, age, a little out of shape) and the backup average is slightly slower.

Brutal/ Texas Tech must be very frustrated about his precious top RBs performances this year. Looks like Jacob Hester measures up fine to 4 of the top 6 or 7 RBs this year (if you include Rashad Jennings as one) in 40 yard speed.

This is a big victory for us to convince DWFs of the caste system. Wells, Moreno, Greene, Jennings are considered stars; "they just play fast", "forget the 40 times" etc.

Wes Welker never was afforded that same luxury; he was cut and then almost cut again by Nick Saban even when he had shown brilliant play in training camp and pre-season that year. It's truly amazing he made it through.

Knowshon Moreno is a great player, but there are whites out there like him too! Is there a white Barry Sanders? Maybe not (although you can't prove it for sure). But there are white Pro-bowl caliber RBs; I know it from comparing film of the elite H.S prospects.

i was wondering who you were talking to in the previous post hehe, i never saw his post

Brutal=Maximus=TexasTech was back and banned again. The guy seriously just can't give it up. Even on a day where our argument has clearly won out; he just gets disgruntled and has to come here to "try" to prove us wrong. I mean I'll concede a few points to the guy sometimes if he makes a legit argument presenting the full picture; which he does once in a while. But the dude "NEVER" seems to concede points to us, no matter what the evidence presented to him. Don Wassall has brought this up a few times about this particular troll and he just never goes away.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

edit: are you sure Andrew Means is White?

I just watched him run and he looks black to me (light-skinned offspring of a black parent and a white parent would be my guess).

You very well may be right. Probably a quarter black, maybe more by his looks. Blake Griffin I believe is half black and looks pretty white. I think Means is still one to cheer for a bit as a two sport athlete who's mostly white, but the caste system will try to give all the credit to his black quarter as we know.

 

[Guest]

haha i thought u were talking to me for a sec and was confused.

 

[dwid]

I just did a calculation from the site's times, the average wide receiver time from the combine is 4.6038

 

[Guest]

that would mean 2 of the three white receivers there were above average speed, ha!

 

[dwid]

Brannan Southerland is looking pretty athletic for a guy his size 6'0 243 pounds, 4.7 40 yard dash, 38 inch vertical, 10 inch broad jump. Im thinking if this guy cut weight he could be a nice powerback.Edited by: dwid

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

I just did a calculation from the site's times, the average wide receiver time from the combine is 4.6038

Really 4.6 flat. You added every single WR time together and divided by the total? Just seems strange that the WR class with "all the supposed burners" was a bit slower and also the RB class was "significantly" slower this year.

People on other boards were talking about a slower surface b/c they changed locations in Indy or something this year. I thought it was definitely an excuse at first, for a let down of the DWFs precious athletes, b/c I thought it is exactly the same field turf used, but these times do seem significantly slower than last yr.

Considering the training put specifically into the Combine you would think the average times would be a bit better than this.

Maybe it's just the real slow guys slowing the field down and a lack of Chris Johnson level burners this year. I'd have to look into this. I'd like to believe that these times are on the exact same surface as last year to help our argument that there can be a year where "most" of the top RBs are slow, but don't know for sure.

Still though my argument holds true that the median NFL starting WR and 1st and 2nd string RBs run around a 4.5 to low 4.5 flat when I was comparing times last year. It was definitely over a third of the guys "drafted" since 2000 at RB and WR who ran 4.55 or slower when I checked last year; CB was a little faster. And I can name long lists of Big name stars that run 4.55 or slower.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

I saw all the DWFs on that board, Footballsblackfuture.com, say this year "Well 40 times are way overrated anyway." "Beanie Wells, Knowshon and even Shonn Greene play much faster than that". Then one guy said (get this): "3-cone and short shuttle times are more important for testing game speed and lateral agility than the 40 unless the 40 is significantly slower than the norm for a RB" a few posters immediately agreed. Well for those idiots information; elite white H.S RBs and WRs seem to do slightly better in those drills than the elite blacks. But who gets the scholarships?

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

Brannan Southerland is looking pretty athletic for a guy his size 6'0 243 pounds, 4.7 40 yard dash, 38 inch vertical, 10 inch broad jump. Im thinking if this guy cut weight he could be a nice powerback.

That's a possibility for sure. He also Squats 650 lbs. or something ridiculous like that, but he barely ran the ball at all in college with Moreno on the team. He did have the rare Goal-line and short yardage carry. I think he even had double digit TDs one year.

But I don't know enough about his vision, burst, cutback ability etc. to think he could be another Bolen. He seems pretty explosive on paper though that's for sure!

 

[dwid]

I just did a calculation from the site's times, the average wide receiver time from the combine is 4.6038

Really 4.6 flat. You added every single WR time together and divided by the total? Just seems strange that the WR class with "all the supposed burners" was a bit slower and also the RB class was "significantly" slower this year.

People on other boards were talking about a slower surface b/c they changed locations in Indy or something this year. I thought it was definitely an excuse at first, for a let down of the DWFs precious athletes, b/c I thought it is exactly the same field turf used, but these times do seem significantly slower than last yr.

Considering the training put specifically into the Combine you would think the average times would be a bit better than this.

Maybe it's just the real slow guys slowing the field down and a lack of Chris Johnson level burners this year. I'd have to look into this. I'd like to believe that these times are on the exact same surface as last year to help our argument that there can be a year where "most" of the top RBs are slow, but don't know for sure.

Still though my argument holds true that the median NFL starting WR and 1st and 2nd string RBs run around a 4.5 to low 4.5 flat when I was comparing times last year. It was definitely over a third of the guys "drafted" since 2000 at RB and WR who ran 4.55 or slower when I checked last year; CB was a little faster. And I can name long lists of Big name stars that run 4.55 or slower.

Yeah, from that site that was provided i added all the ones that participated up and devided by 36 (the number who ran at WR) someone can double check it to make sure i didnt miscount something, but i did it several times and got the same thing.
Actually about the field turf, from the stuff i heard the announcers talking about pre combine, this was supposed to be a faster track because there were talks about athletes afraid to run in Indy because of slower results at the combine, so they installed a "fast" track. So the times should technically be faster which would help our argument even more, unless I misheard.

 

[dwid]

Brannan Southerland is looking pretty athletic for a guy his size 6'0 243 pounds, 4.7 40 yard dash, 38 inch vertical, 10 inch broad jump. Im thinking if this guy cut weight he could be a nice powerback.

That's a possibility for sure. He also Squats 650 lbs. or something ridiculous like that, but he barely ran the ball at all in college with Moreno on the team. He did have the rare Goal-line and short yardage carry. I think he even had double digit TDs one year.

But I don't know enough about his vision, burst, cutback ability etc. to think he could be another Bolen. He seems pretty explosive on paper though that's for sure!

yeah i was going by what he looked like in the combine and on paper, havent seen him run in a game. I wonder if he was a running back in high school at all.Edited by: dwid

 

[dwid]

I just think there were less burners in this class, I mean Percy Harvin was supposed to be fast as hell and ran a 4.4. I think coaches are realizing that the fastest guy doesnt always equal the best guy, either that or the combine is getting more accurate in its testing of speed. Unfortunately they seem to still be discriminating against Whites when it comes to speed saying they do not possess it and that their talent wont translate to the next level. It seems like they have to be a freak of nature to get drafted high, you know like Matt Jones who is 6'6 and ran a 4.3. Kevin Curtis ran a 4.3 and had very good hands and went in the 3rd round.
I mean I know Michael Crabtree didnt run, but he is considered the best receiver in this draft, and i beleive he is going to run in the high 4.5's or low 4.6's He is certainly going to benefit from homefield advantage at Pro day, so who knows what his time will be. I think he is a 4.6 guy, but its still plenty fast to play receiver at the next level. I am tired of the 40 yard dash being a make or break thing for people whether it be scholarships or going pro. It seems to affect White kids the most if they dont run well. Blacks who run 4.5 or 4.6 they say he "has game speed" If you think about it, the combine is kind of silly, espescially the 40 yard dash. When do those players ever line up in that stance, run for 40 yards in a straight line in shorts with no padding whatsoever?

 

[dwid]

Sam Mcguffie transfered from Michigan to be closer to home because a death in the family and you don't know sh*t about his home life so don't even act like you are right on that one.Edited by: dwid

 

[dwid]

If you think Moreno and Wells wont be drafted high you are crazy.

 

[dwid]

speedbacks eh? like Reggie Bush, yeah hes been a good runningback with his 3.2 ypc or something close to that. He is a good receiver out of the backfield and that is it, way too much money paid for that. Good runningbacks are more power oriented.

 

[dwid]

What are you so angry about? Because Whites have proven to be as equally athletic as blacks?
If Eric Peterman had run in the combine he wouldve been in the 4.4's which ranks up there with the "speedster" Percy Harvin.