Need debate help

[Kaptain]

I'm debating a school teacher in his own classroom on the topic of illegal immigration next week. My opponent believes that they are necessary to the economy and that America has always relied on illegal immigrants. I'm sure everyone knows my view.

Although I have researched the topic in detail, I haven't saved any of my good sources. I'm calling on the most intelligent discussion board on the internet - caste football. What I want is links to the best source you can find on the topic. I can't use anything from a "fringe" source as it will just be looked at as racist no matter how truthful. I need sources that site facts and statistics or that look at the issue from an historical perspective - the class is a history class. Thanks in advance to all of those that help.

 

[Freedom]

You can use some of this passage.

The problem today is not the immigrants from Mexico,
Brazil, Vietnam, etc, but rather the reasons they are allowed to
immigrate.
This immigration is not about giving Democracy to people but rather
about wealthy elites strengthening their domination over the American
people and converting America into a stronger class society. The Bush
administration is allowing immigrants from Mexico in because it wants
to lower Americans wages for the benefit of the few. They have
taken a very mild stance towards immigrant gangs and mafias as they
see them as beneficial to the well to do as history shows(note the behavior of J Edgar Hoover regarding the Mafia).
The fact is that GOPs pro immigration policies are part of a larger
ideology that sells out America to the whims of various nations and
parties be it Mexico or a totalitarian, oppressive China(in
manufacturing mostly)"

 

[White Shogun]

How about an article from the National Review:

Mark Krikorian

Or: Americans for Legal Immigration

Or: Carrying Capacity Network

Or: Numbers USA

Or: Project USA

In my opinion, Numbers USA is the most mainstream and most viable as an organization. They have a setup where you can contact your congressmen by fax for free, and have already had an impact on influencing pending legislation in Congress.

Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[White Shogun]

You can use some of this passage.

The problem today is not the immigrants from Mexico,
Brazil, Vietnam, etc, but rather the reasons they are allowed to
immigrate.
This immigration is not about giving Democracy to people but rather
about wealthy elites strengthening their domination over the American
people and converting America into a stronger class society. The Bush
administration is allowing immigrants from Mexico in because it wants
to lower Americans wages for the benefit of the few. They have
taken a very mild stance towards immigrant gangs and mafias as they
see them as beneficial to the well to do as history shows(note the behavior of J Edgar Hoover regarding the Mafia).
The fact is that GOPs pro immigration policies are part of a larger
ideology that sells out America to the whims of various nations and
parties be it Mexico or a totalitarian, oppressive China(in
manufacturing mostly)"

Give Poop the source for this quote, maybe there is other material there he can use.

 

[Freedom]

It is on an anti immigration message board.
Here is the link.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Anti-ImmigrationDebate/

 

[Quiet Speed]

Center For Immigration Studies:
http://www.cis.org/index.cgi

Wages and Poverty:
http://www.cis.org/topics/wagesandpoverty.html

 

[White Shogun]

I forgot about FAIR.

 

[Bear-Arms]

Tom Tancredo's book "In Mortal Danger: The Battle for America's Border and Security" should be a good source.

 

[Bronk]

Go here: http://www.lewrockwell.com/
then go to the bottom and type in immigration, or what ever suits your fancy, LOTS of good articles.

Also here:http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/
Do the same thing.

 

[KG2422]

[url]http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003133398_w ebgregoire17.html?syndication=rss [/url]

Here's an article about the governor of Washington sending the federal govt. a $50 million bill to cover cost of illegals in prison in her state. There are links to more like it along with some interesting commentary that might be useful in your debate at Amren.com. Also, Lou Dobb's website I'm sure has some useful info. And I'll bet you already know this, but bring some note cards. Have plenty of ammunition in case you can't remember everything under fire. I like to take notes while the other person is talking, so I can quote them in my rebuttal. It's pretty efective if you have contradictory evidence. It makes them look foolish. Good luck!

Edited by: KG2422

 

[JD074]

I really like Mac Johnson's articles about immigration. Here's his archive at Humaneventsonline.com. They have other articles about immigration that you can check out, as well.

You've probably already read Alien Nation by Peter Brimelow; if you haven't yet, you might be able to find it at a library.

 

[Poacher]

This is the problem with the debate surrounding immigration; the open-borders people are always framing the debate. We (whites) are only allowed to debate immigration in terms of economics. The question is not whether immigration is good for our economy but rather whether it is good for America in general. Notice I didn't use the term "illegal," that is because the issue of legality is a side issue. We have around 300 million people in this country as it is...how many more do we need legal or otherwise? Of course the fact that 90% of these immigrants are coming from failed third world countries is one of those things that we as whites are not allowed to talk about openly. But it is a fact nonetheless. We are on the fast track to becoming Brazil. Where the country is run by a handful of white elites living in gated communities with armed guards while the rest of the people just fend for themselves with no shared vision or culture to help hold them together.

This whole open borders non-sense is all predicated on the idea that America is a "proposition nation," an IDEA and NOT a nation of blood and soil formed by a common people from a common civilization with commonly held beliefs. This "America is just an idea" crap has been pushed on us for a good forty years by a certain ethnic group who, from the time they got off the boat scarcely 100 years ago, have been denouncing the founding stock of America as racist, hypocritical, brutes who don't know how to interpret the documents that created their country. This self-righteous tribe of parasites is always telling the majority people of America what the Constitution and Declaration of Independence REALLY mean while ignoring the strongly held personal beliefs of the founding fathers.

In short, as long as we let this inner party band of rogues (along with their outer-party co-conspirators)dictate the terms of our existence to us we will continue our long slow march off the stage of human history.

 

[JD074]

Poacher, I agree. It shouldn't be about illegal immigration per se (this is where I'll part ways with mainstream anti-illegal immigration advocates like Lou Dobbs, who's for more legal immigration.) Legal immigrants from India and China can depress our wages and use up our social services just as easily as illegal immigrants from Mexico and El Salvador. In fact, being legal entitles them to more hand-outs. Immigration- legal and illegal- is essentially welfare to business and foreigners.

At the very least, we should have a preference for First World immigration regardless of race (not perfect, but nothing is.) We should also have higher fees to ensure that people who come here can pay their own way, rather than becoming a burden on taxpayers. A 10-20,000 dollar price tag on all green cards, visas, etc., should do the trick. And it would drastically reduce the total amount of immigration as well. Increase the quality, reduce the quantity.


P.S. Here's an interesting theory (or perhaps speculation) from Edgar J. Steele:

All modern immigration since passage of the 1965 Immigration Act likely has been designed from the beginning to provide American cannon fodder for World War III.

http://www.conspiracypenpal.com/columns/whine.htmEdited by: JD074

 

[Kaptain]

I will be framing the arguement against both illegal and mass legal immigration (anything above replacement level). I have been busy reading the sources you people have sent me and it has been very helpful. I'll let you know how it went at the end of this week. Keep sending. Thanks.

 

[Deus Vult]

If you don't aready have one, pick up a copy of Peter Brimelow's 1995 book, "Alien Nation." It is loaded with facts and figures, all sources cited.

 

[Realgeorge]

Here's some advice from a Nationlist Times Sage, a good friend of superior understanding (hope it's not too late for the debate)

"How many is enough? (Point out that the fedgov works around the clock to TOTALLY ERADICATE OUR BORDERS.)

How many is too many? (Point out that the entire third world is slowly moving here and that our population is quickly heading for 500,000,000)

What country has ever flooded itself with foreigners and retained its social or economic stability -- especially foreigners of radiacally different racial, religious and economic backgrounds?

What's to stop America from becoming another becoming another Mexico, India or Somalia as it continues to let unchecked numbers of people from such places?

Where is he planning to live when whites are a small minority in his neighborhood?

(He will next scoff that this will never happen. Ask him what's to stop it.)

(He will next scoff that it will never happen in his lifetime. Ask why he cares so little for future generations.)

Erasing of borders is a classic communist goal for the countries of the world. A huge majority of Americans hate what's happening as the classic communist goal of borderlessness is forced upon her. Why should that have to put up with it?

On taking office, Resident Bush immediately ran to Mexico and declared that the our border with that country need not separate our two countries ,but could in fact unite them. Where does the Constitution allow a president to go around merging the country into globalist mega-economic zones?"

 

[Deacon]

I'm debating a school teacher in his own classroom on the topic of illegal immigration next week. My opponent believes that they are necessary to the economy and that America has always relied on illegal immigrants.

Good god, how can anyone think that illegal immigration is good for the economy?! Your opponent is a brainless idiot with an IQ of a bean sprout!



link

Illegal Immigration Costs California $10.5 Billion a Year, Report Says

link

Illegal Immigration Costs Florida $4.3 Billion a Year, Report SaysEdited by: Deacon

 

[screamingeagle]

Check the VDARE.Com sight. Lots of good information