Is bolt on drugs

Discussion in 'Track & Field' started by jayo1980, Aug 21, 2008.

  1. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    More grist for the mill. Here is a Bloomberg story..... BusinessWeek Logo
    Monday May 3, 2010










    Bloomberg
    Growth Hormone Makes Sprinters Faster in First Athlete Study
    May 03, 2010, 9:03 PM EDT
    More From Businessweek



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    By Jason Gale

    May 4 (Bloomberg) -- Growth hormone injected daily for eight weeks may cut 0.4 of a second off a sprinter's time over 100 meters, according to the first study to measure the effect on athletes of a drug used to boost competitiveness.

    Athletes taking human growth hormone, or hGH, improved sprint capacity by 4 percent to 5 percent, researchers at the Garvan Institute in Sydney found. The World Anti-Doping Agency funded the study, which appeared yesterday in the Annals of Internal Medicine.

    The finding gives the first scientific evidence supporting the agency's ban on hGH, which can cause deformities and increase the risk of heart disease. The performance-enhancing effect of hGH -- produced in the pituitary gland and given to children with a height-restricting deficiency -- is limited to sprinting and almost doubles in men when combined with testosterone, the authors said.

    "We found the enhancement in sprint capacity would correlate to a 0.4 second improvement over 10 seconds in a 100- meter dash,"Â￾ said Ken Ho, Garvan's head of pituitary research and a co-author of the study, in a statement. "This improvement could turn the last-place finisher in the Olympic finals into a gold medal winner."Â￾

    Jamaica's Usain Bolt won the 100-meter sprint at the 2008 Beijing Olympics in a world-record breaking time of 9.69 seconds. Darvis Patton of the U.S. finished last with a time of 10.03 seconds.

    Novo Nordisk

    More than 100 recreational athletes ages 18 to 40 were recruited in the Garvan study. Participants were randomly selected to receive a daily shot of recombinant hGH made by Bagsvaerd, Denmark-based Novo Nordisk A/S or a saline placebo. A subset of the 68 men enrolled in the study also received a weekly testosterone injection.

    The growth-hormone doses were below what athletes are reported to use, and for a shorter time, the researchers said. The anti-doping agency prohibits the use of growth hormone by competitive athletes.

    "The drug's effects on performance might be greater than shown in this study, and its side effects might be more serious,"Â￾ Ho said.

    An excess of growth hormone may lead to a syndrome known as acromegaly that can cause disfigurement of the face, enlargement of the heart and joints, and premature death. Long-term hGH abuse may also cause diabetes, Ho said in a telephone interview.

    Physical performance over a series of endurance and power exercises was analyzed for each participant before and at the completion of an eight-week regimen, and six weeks post- treatment. Hormone levels, body composition and adverse reactions were also recorded.

    Swelling and Pain

    Growth hormone didn't improve recipients' strength, power or endurance, nor increase muscle mass, the researchers found. The improvement in sprint performance wasn't observed six weeks after treatment ceased and was associated with body fluid retention, swelling and joint pain.

    "It's a really exciting finding,"Â￾ Ho said in the interview. "It justifies the banning of growth hormone."Â￾

    A blood test for hGH was introduced at the 2004 Olympics in Athens and English rugby league player Terry Newton became the first athlete sanctioned for its use last February.

    --Editors: Phil Serafino, Kristen Hallam

    To contact the reporter on this story: Jason Gale at j.gale@bloomberg.net

    To contact the editor responsible for this story: Reg Gale at rgale5@bloomberg.net
     
  2. Observer

    Observer Mentor

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    Wow, that is some amazing stuff. I would not have dared guess it had that kind of effect. In other words, just about every one of the nation's couple hundred 11 second 100 meter white high school sprinters could -- with a couple years of "advanced training methods" -- drop a second and enter the elite category, if they so wished to do so.

    But if it doesn't improve strength, power, or endurance... how does it work? Does it increase suppleness? Act on the nervous system? What's it do to a 400 meter runner? Whether it does any good at that distance or not, there does appear to be a couple 400 runners with jaw and skull enlargement.
     
  3. j41181

    j41181 Master

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    It's amazing how genetics can play a significant role in the evolution of sprinting. Such methods should benefit EVERYONE.
     
  4. JReb1

    JReb1 Mentor

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    HGH must be mostly effecting the fast twitch muscle fibers by making more of them and/or making them even faster twitched. I'm not a chemist so I don't know how exactly, just a theory.
     
  5. mastermulti

    mastermulti Mentor

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    it is an amazing study. It was run on Syneysiders aged 18 to 40. I saw it on a current affairs show tonight.

    The thing that really stunned me was that the daily dose was counted as the minimum for performance boost and it was only for 8 weeks duration yet yielded 0.4 sec improvement.
    Professor Ho stated on television that it's quite reasonable to expect some different and bigger effects for those using large doses for an indefinite time period

    Here's another account for those interested

    studyEdited by: mastermulti
     
  6. StarWars

    StarWars Mentor

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    Actually most pro sprinters were about 11 in high school. Even white ones that ran 10.03 like Nic Mac or Allen Wells. Most people don't realize that speed is the easiest aspect of athleticism to improve besides strength (most people on this site that can get under 200 lbs and have descent strength can break 11 with proper training). Coordination is by far the hardest thing to obtain, and most of it is always natural.
    However, I do agree that the majority of black sprinters making sudden and vast improvements are guilty of PEDs. Merritt, Michael Johnson, Bolt, etc are all dirty. Ignore them.
    Wariner is one of the few clean sprinters of today. Same with Lemaitre. Just like it is easy to say "whites are just as fast and blacks are just as smart," the truth is whites are leagues closer to blacks in speed than blacks are to whites in intelligience. I wish that I could say that whites cheat at the same % as blacks, but it's not that simple.
    But yes, give me five 11 flat whites and 500 bucks each for winny or anavar and I can make a sub 40 4x100 meter relay team.
     
  7. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    Starwars how much did you improve your 100 meter time, from training.
    I was pretty fast but did get crazy thing with my legs so I stopped.
     
  8. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    the most crazy improvements are made by Fraser Shelly-Ann , she improved around a full second from 06 to 08 the three years before her best times where in the 11.5 to 11.7 rance and she could not really improve!
     
  9. StarWars

    StarWars Mentor

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    One second.Edited by: StarWars
     
  10. j41181

    j41181 Master

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  11. trackster

    trackster Mentor

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    Okay, not to start an argument, but, seeing as it's been posted twice, I feel obligated to point out just how off-base the above statement is. Frankly, it's pure fantasy. People can make anonymous claims about their speed on message boards as much as they like, but, no, "most people" can't break 11 in a 100m sprint, no matter how hard they work at it. Not even close. I see a lot of high school meets, and I've yet to see anyone even break 11.5. Most high school sprinters run in the 12's and, if they're not particularly good, the 13's. And they're training every day. Even if you look at statewide invitational meets, you generally won't find many runners below 11 in most states, and you'll still find plenty in the 12's.

    As for collegiate runners, check out the results for meets other than the NCAA's, and you'll find that the times always tail off into the 11's. This is even more true with the DII and DIII colleges; in which case the winner is often in the 11s. And remember, all those sprinters running in the 11's are busting their butts to be as fast as they can.

    As for non-runners, take a stopwatch out to a local track, and you'll find that the average guy, even if he works out in the gym and is in shape, and even if he's fairly young, is lucky to do better than 13 or 14. If you're even a little out of shape, don't be shocked if you run in the 15's or slower.

    Running below 11 is elite for any race or nationality.
     
  12. Observer

    Observer Mentor

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    Where do you live, Alaska?
    I agree that 11.5 is very fast for a normal human being; but even here in cold rural Minnesota, 11.5 is something that is occasionally seen (hand-timed winners at 11.4 are not uncommon even in small meets).
    I would like to hear what StarWars has to say about this, because maybe he knows something about sprint training (plyometrics?) that my coach certainly did not know. I started the season as a mid-11 guy and got slower as the season progressed. But boy, I was a killer at fartleks and in the weight room! I think that there is much headway that could be made in training white sprinters, because they tend to respond well to conditioning -- but in the process turn into middle distance runners.

    I know, I know, that's where you'd like to see them anyway! [​IMG]
     
  13. Observer

    Observer Mentor

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    Edited to addd...
    Here's results from a local meet of a couple days ago:
    100m Tessmer MVL 11:17, Guggisburg NU 11:39, Anderson CMCS 11:43, Bergemann MVL 11:64, Wenzel NU 12:21

    200m Guggisberg NU 23.25, Dyslin BEA 23.84, Tessmer MVL 24.11, Bergemann MVL 24.38, Zebedee BEA 24.45

    400m Carr BEA 51.36, Tessmer MVL 52.17, Hillesheim NU 52.80, Olson BEA 55.27, Soukup NU 58.21
    NU boys win Invite
     
  14. trackster

    trackster Mentor

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    You're proving my point for me. You posted the top finishers of an invitational meet (which means that only athletes that can meet a high standard are allowed in) and not one of them cracked 11 and only four runners even cracked 12. I don't know the meet, but typically you would have 30 or 40 other 100m runners, and that would mean 30 or so didn't even break 12 and only four did. Even in an invitational meet, you'll find many runners in the thirteens, if you posted the rest of the results. This is supposed to rebut my argument how?

    If Star Wars could really train the average fit individual to run under 11 seconds, he would be the greatest most revolutionary track coach in the history of the world. He would be a legend.
     
  15. Observer

    Observer Mentor

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    I'm not trying to disprove your point, but I was curious as to what part of the country you hale in that you have never seen anyone crack 11.5. It is cold and population is low where I live, and that was simply the easiest recent track results I could find in my area. And no, I don't think there will be many in the results listing as slow as 13 seconds, simply because those slower kids will find other events (or sports) in which to compete.

    It is true that some guys drop a second or more after high school age. Asafa Powell's best time was 10.8 at 18, and I think that may have been hand-timed. I don't understand how they do it, but they do do it. Physical maturation alone doesn't seem likely to explain it, especially so since maturation on those southern islands is pretty early So, there must be some other reasons, part of which might be training technique. I'm waiting to hear StarWars' ideas on this; could be quite interesting.

    I myself barely got any faster after I was 11 or 12, and then got slower the more I trained. But I could have beaten just about anyone carrying a 200 lb. load for a half mile. These anecdotes, as well as some more formalized research, make me wonder if there are not some better training techniques available that would optimize sprinting ability, as StarWars seems to indicate.

    StarWars, the podium is now yours...
     
  16. Van_Slyke_CF

    Van_Slyke_CF Mentor

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    Is Usain Bolt on drugs?

    YES

    DOUBLE YES

    TRIPLE YES
     
  17. mastermulti

    mastermulti Mentor

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    Hmmm! interesting. Here's some of my observations.

    even in a city the size of Sydney (4.5 million) where I live there aren't too many sub 11s till it gets close to state champs time (mind you, the number of people doing track now is smaller than 30 years ago).

    The fast guys who aren't quite fast enough to "represent" but who train consistently for years tend to have one or two mid-10 seasons then settle around 10.70-10.80e until they quit the sport.
    These guys however looked to have lots of potential at high school because they would have all broken 11 before 17 years of age which led them into training in hope for many years to become elite.

    Those who break into the 10.40s seem to come on and get into 10.20s for one or two meets for a season or two.

    In a country of 22 million only Shirvington, Johnson and Joshua Ross and to a lesser degree Damien Marsh have been able to go sub 10.20 on a semi regular basis over a longish period of time.

    I ran 12.6 at 50 which equates back to low 11s age-graded time. But since I didn't start track till 46-47 years old that tells me there are lots of guys, maybe 5% anyway, who could run low 11s at their peak IF, and it's a big IF,they had wanted to train hard for the event. I didn't have the desire then and I think most 17/18 year olds want the social aspect of team sports. Many of them are very quick over short bursts but don't give a fig about having to run over a preset distance.

    To sum up, simply for convenience sake I'd say perhaps....

    5% of males could run low 11s given enough incentive and training.

    anyone breaking 11 (because phsychologically the number 10 is magic for sprinters)will consider racheting up to the next level by running state champ meets,getting a coach etc for a few seasons to see how it goes.

    10.50s and an institute of sport grabs you and helps out with financial assistance, coaches and medicos. At this point how they respond physically determines their future as international athletes.

    Edited by: mastermulti
     
  18. StarWars

    StarWars Mentor

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    Just got a look. Look, I don't want to insult a 13 or 14 second 100 meter sprinter, but that is not the average speed of a fit male (18-30) at all. Especially when they start training.

    An 11.5 is about as slow as you can get but still be considered fast by someone watching you run (unless your speed endurance sucks). A sub-11 is rare mainly because few people know how to train for the 100 meter dash, or even know how to sprint in general. If you read some books, maybe join an internet forum for sprinters, and ESPECIALLY get 8 hours of sleep a night and eat well, you should break 11. You just have to continually put in the work, intelligiently.

    I am aware there is a stigma against people who talk so openly about track times but I'm not that cocky type of person that just throws numbers out there. Hand-times are usually .2 to .3 better than actual times.

    Yes, though. A fit person with fast twitch muscles trying their ass off usually is high 11s to high 12s. But that's without the training.
     
  19. FastEuro

    FastEuro Newbie

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    Everyone develops differently. I was never a fast kid. I got fast in my late teen years, as a senior in high school. I recall running the 50 yard dash in 6.8 as a freshman and as senior running in 5.6. My body just got stronger naturally and with strength training (late bloomer). I ran the 40 yard dash in 4.4 while playing Div 3 ball as a walk-on. Not a good player though - playing ability and speed are two different skills. Fastest guy is not always the most talented.<div>
    </div><div>When it comes down to it, some people are born fast right out of the womb and always are; some have a talent that needs to be stimulated - training etc...If you know your body and understand how it works, you can make amazing progress. It takes hard work. Star Wars is not far off. It can be done.</div>
    Edited by: FastEuro
     
  20. StarWars

    StarWars Mentor

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    Speed is not something like IQ that you have for your whole life. I'm not saying many males can break 11. However, if they are a good weight and height, train smart, eat smart, and stay with it, I highly doubt that 11 seconds will be much of a barrier to break for an adult male.
     
  21. FastEuro

    FastEuro Newbie

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    strength to body weight ratio is the key.
     
  22. mastermulti

    mastermulti Mentor

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    "strength to body weight ratio is the key"

    yep, and working on flexibility is important too.

    Also the technical aspects of running efficiently. One example.... landing with the foot dorsiflexed but under the centre of gravity.
    I always had trouble with my foot landing a little forward and causing a braking movement. Others land too far behind their COG causing their legs to flick back too far and slowing recovery for the next stride.

    I guess this is where you want a good coach
     
  23. jayo1980

    jayo1980 Newbie

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    just referring back to article on the hgh , makes alot of sense

    first you could put insulin growth factor type 1 into same

    bracket as alot of effects of hgh are due to hgh being broken down

    in liver to igf type 1 , and most if not all effects on muscles
    comes from the igf type growth hormones. so could just take the igf

    instead of hgh , hgh is involved in many other processes that igf isnt

    like with imune system and so on.

    in theory i guess the test results would be same with igf or even

    better but who knowes








    all my knowledge on subject matter comes from bodybuiding forums and
    how it relates to that , so great to see its effects from a
    sprinting background







    i know the replacement dose is like 1 to 2 iu,s (international units)
    if a person is lacking naturally in growth hormone from old
    age or when young .like lionel messi the soccer player is
    what some say one of first legally enhanced pro athletes as
    he was given hgh all threw teens for deficiency of it , as wasnt
    getting any taller , so club sponsored his drug programme
    alot of middle aged actors mite be on such a dose
    for the so called health and energy and youth benefits of hgh


    as said in article there is side effects
    on this dosage the sides are minimum when get up to dosage that some
    professional bodybuilders take like 8, or even 10 iued .
    the side can become bad , water retention and bad carpal tunnel problems etc , so again in article never mentioned the dosage
    so assuming that it says alot of participants got alot of these sides
    have to guess they were getting at very least 2iu ed and say
    more like more to get these sides


    also sides of etc bone growth on skull or jaw or hands is
    over stated and not that common on lower dose and only if sensitive in that way but not that common from what hear
    also added side on igf-1 is increased pumps



    alot of professional bodybuilders might take igf-1 instead of the hgh
    as alot more fast acting , or take both at same time with
    all other peds that are nessary to reach the bloated size of the likes of
    jay cutler nd other b.b's of 2000s whichis not possible without insulin or hgh /igf-1 in
    my and many others opinion .












    also hgh is not for everyone , not least wealthy o.a.p looking to get
    some health benefit from a maintaince dose of hgh

    if you have any problems with pre / diabetes or glucose metabolism
    stay far away from hgh /igf as they downregulate the insulin recetor
    causing insulin resistance .
    so whilst taking it and for many weeks or when stop will have severe
    problems with blood sugar if you have such biochemistry that sensitive to this or an underlining problem or beginning of one , but if a healthy
    individual like young athlete should be ,then this most likely should not
    be a problem .





    and as for a test for hgh ,the story on first positive of that rugby
    league player in uk at start of year was on alot of forums but still

    many dont think
    a decent test for hgh exsists due to its very short half life out
    of body within 30 minutes or so.
    OR is the test on some physiological change or metabolite due to it
    but suspect that dont have one, as nobody else caught and think
    that rubgy league player was very unlucky (took it very close to test)
    or stupid or just put out there as example to scare monger, a small sacrifice to make wada look like they are doing job etc,.
    and put others off ,
    but far from a test for hgh /igf in my many peoples opinion
    until more get caught and exact details of test are released until
    such dont think hav one .
     
  24. Jimmy Chitwood

    Jimmy Chitwood Hall of Famer

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    lots of good posts in this thread.

    i'm certainly not a track expert by any stretch of the imagination, but i do pay attention to things when i see them, so i wantedto comment onthe 11-second standard that's been mentioned ...

    there are a LOT of sprinters at US universities who have personal bests that don't break 11-seconds-flat. many of them aren't 100-meter specialists, but they still earn their scholarship money by being fast.

    i daresay that a large percentage (possibly even most) of collegiate sprinterscan't break 11.
     
  25. jayo1980

    jayo1980 Newbie

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    11 second stantard , i would agree that not many could brake
    it if they are not very athletically inclined by choice or disposition

    we all know your average joe soap , would struggle to brake 14, 15 seconds





    but if as others said ,if a good height , build , strength ,young
    athletic, basically a biochemistry for sprinting know how to train for it (being most important)and stick with
    it for long enough as in at least afew years , gains in speed obviuosly
    are slow once have technique pretty honed.




    then in my opinion 11 seconds is still a barrier
    but should be on ,under or just above it at very least
    if anyway serious about it.





    basically look at 100 metre national champianship results from any european
    country from past 30-40 years .
    and subtract any of the world class sprinters from field
    so depending on country usually only a hand full of athletes.
    then rest of sprinter will be hovering around the 11 seconds
    from 10.80 up

    so breaking 11 seconds still not easy






    OR
    look at 100 metertimes for decathletes as a reference range




    OR just a thought
    they say if take world class olympic lifter ,
    so you know they have nessary power to compete with any
    sprinter

    and they wud give any top class sprinter run for money over
    first 30 , 40 meters
    then how they do from there guess depends on how can
    translate the power with decent enough technique
    and proper mechanics but obviuosly lack finishing endurance.
     

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