Against Modern Football!

Discussion in 'Soccer' started by Porthos, May 10, 2012.

  1. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

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    [​IMG]

    The phrase is becoming more and more popular among the Ultras (the most passionate fans). Personally, I'm becoming more and more nostalgic and dissillusioned regarding the state of the game. I wanted to open this thread on how the game is being ruined by our obsession with money and comercialism. Here are some things (in random order) I absolutely hate in today's game:
    - Players with ridiculous tattoos, earrings, hairstyles
    - Large numbers on jerseys (used to be 1-11)
    - Football played every day, all day, at weird times to accomodate TV. Constant games on TV - too much is too much (used to be 1-2 games per week)
    - Foreign club owners (Jewish criminals, Arab Sheiks, Indian Chicken-Farm owners, shifty Asian billionnaires etc.)
    - Marketing peddling to masses in Asia, Arabia, Africa etc., neglecting the local fans.
    - Players of nationalities different from the one of the club
    - Players of different races
    - Constant anti-racism campaigns and relentless politically correct propaganda
    - Players constantly changing clubs, chasing the last penny, no loyalty to the fans, clubs, cities etc.
    - TV cameras everywhere, nothing escapes big brother, even reading lips of players. A minor altercation between players immediately becomes "cause celebre", especially if race is involved
    - False "fair play" when a player falls down (ball is thrown out)
    - "Feminized" game - referees using yellow/red cards too much, players can't take a few hard tackles (used to be a masculine game)
    - All seater soulless, commercial stadiums with crappy atmosphere (standing places - anyone?)
    - Fans undergoing police-state repression
    - Teams selling their identity for cash (Red Bull Salzburg, Wimbledon, Cardiff, Blackburn etc.)
    - Teams playing every year with different yerseys (and often different colors)
    - Ridiculous infantile goal celebrations
    - Hyper-ventilating TV comentators
    - Scandalous betting "industry"
    - Winner takes it all concept - obsession with few big, untouchable clubs, everybody else is a looser
    - Champion's league where non-champions can play if they are rich and big enough
    - Balotelli-type overpaid idiots
    - Outrageously expensive tickets and VIP lounges (used to be cheap, working class, "people's sport")
    - Constant pushing of ridiculously expensive merchandize (jerseys, badges, hats, balls etc.)
    - Robotic players who all run 12.5KM per game, execute in detail all that their coach tells them to do, who are all in bed by 10, eat macrobiotic food and take the psychologist seriously. Where are the old-style football poets and bohemians? Where is a modern George Best?
    - Clubs floated on stock-exchanges (gimme a break!)

    Sorry for this "grumpy old guy" rant...
     
  2. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

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  3. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

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  4. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

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    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  5. Matra2

    Matra2 Master

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    Lots of things on your list to agree and disagree with. I like there being more football to watch, the better camera angles (though they do go a bit overboard at times), and the betting industry side of it has always been around.

    One thing that has changed in my lifetime that annoys me, but apparently nobody else, is the wearing of sponsor names on the front of jerseys. I remember after living away from the UK for a number of years relatives from the Liverpool area sent me the new Liverpool jersey (this was around the early to mid1980s). I'd been living in the South Pacific and North America where we didn't get any football other than international tournaments so the change from "plain" kits with just the shirt maker (ie Umbro) in small writing in the top left to the big sponsor names plastered in the front had taken place whilst I was away from the sport for a few years. I was pretty young at the time and so was actually confused by it at first. Why did it say, in big writing at the front, "Hitachi" (IIRC they were the sponsor)? What does a stereo-maker have to do with football? It looked so cheesy. None of the North American teams did that (still don't!). I felt embarrassed wearing it in public, especially as Hitachi had a reputation for making cheap crap.

    Look at the Getafe shirt in the above post sponsored by Burger King. How embarrassing! But this has been going on so long now people take it for granted.

    Of course it could be worse:

    kim-car.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  6. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    not everywhere
    in my country betting was illegal until 2 years ago
    it's very new to us

    in 2010 when lyon played a champions league match against real madrid, both teams were forced to play with sponsor-free jerseys because both teams were sposored by a betting website (which was forbidden at the time):



    [​IMG]

    and most are total hypocrites
    look at benzema kissing the emblem of his new club:
    [​IMG]

    while he knows nothing about the club, can't speak spanish, and it was his first day as a real madrid player!
    that's like marrying a girl after a first date

    you don't need to pretend loving the club
    you don't see lugano for example kissing the emblem of his club
    he is a professional, fights on the pitch for his team, he doesn't pretend to love the club

    benzema also said that he always dreamed about playing for real madrid, that's something the fans love to hear
    but when asked about a possible transfert to barcelona when he was still playing in france, he said the same about barcelona

    forlan stated that he would never kiss another emblem than the ones of uruguay and penarol


    you're not the only one to think so
    recently i wanted to buy an ac milan jersey because maxi lopez plays there and i also like the club, but there is no way i buy and wear a jersey with "fly emirates" written on it
    i'm young, but still i have seen some big teams play without sponsor
    like barcelona for example (i still have this jersey without any sponsor, a familiar offered it to me then, while i was a real madrid fan :nono:):

    [​IMG]


    every match i watch, i can't believe what i see
    everybody has the same haircut
    at some point there was a trend especially amongst south american players: tattoos on the arms
    but now, these haircuts are getting ridiculous
    in french ligue 1, almost half of the players have the same haircut
    even giroud and maxi lopez :grin:

    i think neymar started this trend
    [​IMG]

    look at jeremy menez, it looks like he has a dead squirrel on the top of his head:
    [​IMG]

    montpellier club owner said that he would cut his hair like menez if his club wins the french ligue 1 this year, and montpellier are still ahead of PSG....


    somebody (i think it was europe) posted a good example of that - the video where puyol ends dani alves and alcantara's ridiculous goal celebration

    i come from a family where rugby was more popular than soccer
    my grand-father never understood why these soccer players were so theatrical
    just congratulate the other players, and thank the suporters


    here is one of the most ridiculous goal celebrations i ever saw, by neymar:

    [video=youtube_share;sAzKv1F907M]http://youtu.be/sAzKv1F907M[/video]

    he got a red card for this :thumbsup:
     
  7. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

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    And now the latest fashion - football masks. Most players still ware them for medical or protection reasons, but it's obvious that they are becomming a fashion item. How "gay" is that?

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    Corporate logos and sponsorships will appear next on the uniforms of NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB players. Golfers and NASCAR drivers are already plastered with them, and just about every square inch of arenas and stadiums is covered in advertising. Golf tournaments, college football bowls, and stadiums are all named after corporations; team uniforms are the last barrier not yet penetrated by the corporate/cultural marxist takeover of sports (and everything else) in the U.S.
     
  9. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

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    Extensive usage of hollywood-type special effects before, during and after the game. In the American MLS league they now have "exploding confetti" behind the goal every time the home team scores. Appearently, the excitement of your team scoring a goal is not enough. With our attention span damaged by constant channel-surfing on TV and single shooter video games, we need constant stimulation...

    England's sobrious celebration of the 1966 World Cup victory:
    [​IMG]


    Inter's over the top hoolywoodesque celebration of the Italian Cup victory in 2010 - couldn't they detonate a termonuclear device just to make it a tad more exciting?
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  10. Porthos

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    Idiotic, puerile mascottes. Here's Everton's... With the sponsor, Asian Chang Beer, well in display...

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Europe

    Europe Mentor

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    I like that there are more cameras so we can see the play from different angles, but I don't like all the closeups of the players.

    One thing about soccer is that they don't show the fans too much because the game rarely stops. American football constantly shows the fans and cheerleaders because there are so many breaks. I don't want to see some guy with a painted face in the stands or some player's mother or wife. CBS' coverage of college sports is the worst. It's constant shots of the stands or cheerleaders. It's the worst coverage in history.


    It's funny how much the surroundings of soccer have changed, but the one thing that could make the game better they don't change. That is the use of goal technology. There is no reason not to use replay or other means.

    They could also use more officials. It's impossible to see everything that goes on. They had an extra official in the Champions League last year or this, but I lost track what happened with that.

    The best way to see off-sides is with a camera, but they refuse to use it. It's almost impossible to call some of those off-sides because the play happens so fast.

    Some of the new stadiums look nice. Emirates and Wembley look better than the old ones. They have some standing areas in the new German Stadiums. I think Bayern's new stadium is much nicer than the Olympic Stadium.

    Burger King on the jersey. What else needs to be said. Sponsors on the jersey ruin it, but I do like the changing styles every year, even colors. I think the same uniform gets boring. Arsenal's O2 jersey actually was one of the better ones with a sponsor on it. Their Fly Emirates one isn't bad, but it would be better without it.
     
  12. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    after the incredible match between manchester city and QPR, djibril cissé celebrated with the manchester city players:

    [​IMG]

    while is team was officially relegated
    this is a prime example of a mercenary who desn't care at all about his club
     
  13. Colonel_Reb

    Colonel_Reb Hall of Famer

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  14. Matra2

    Matra2 Master

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    QPR were not relegated. Though your point still stands.

    I agree with Europe about goal line technology and even limited use of replays. But an astonishing number of soccer fans repeat like muppets "we have to keep the human element" which they hear from pundits on TV and radio. A lot of soccer fans only follow one sport so they often aren't aware that technology has improved other sports.

    What actually bothers me the most about the officiating is the constant mistakes made by linesmen (known in modern football as "assistant referees":icon_rolleyes:) on off-sides. There is a mistake in pretty much every match. I wonder if technology could be used for off-sides without being too intrusive?

    Chang beer is sold at my local shop. It's dirt cheap but I've never even considered purchasing it because I thought it was from China and thus possibly as dangerous as all that tainted pet food they sold the West a few years ago. I'm not sure I'd buy any beer from Thailand either as they don't have a beer culture. I assume it is watery lager like the other non-Japanese Asian beers I've tried.
     
  15. Europe

    Europe Mentor

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    Yes, they should use it. Offside is almost impossible to call because the plays happen so fast and many times the linesman can't even be in position to call it. The best view of if is from a high camera. They also have to decide what is off sides. It is not called consistently. If a guy is a foot in front it should be on side. If you drew a line across the field and any part of the defenders and offensive players body or foot is touching the line, then it should be on side. You can do that easily with the technology we have.

    It won't come into play that often. They could just put the flag up but the players can play out the play and see what happens. Most of the time the play continues anyway because they don't realize an offside call has been made. You would then review the offside only if a goal has been scored if there is any doubt if the player was on or off side.You can wait for any rebounds and let that play out before you stop play.

    They could change it so that once the ball comes over say 30-35 yards out from goal there is no offside. I don't know if that will work or if that is too big a change. I think they used to have if that you had to have defenders between the ball and player when it was kicked and now it is only 1. I'll have to look that up.
     
  16. Europe

    Europe Mentor

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    Look at how incredible modern Europe is. Here we have 2 "French" guys on 2 opposing teams, who aren't even of European ancestry let alone French, celebrating a victory in the English League of a team that is composed of mostly foreign players, owned by Arabs, coached by an Italian and guarded by a black "English" security guard.

    It's one thing congratulating your friend, but celebrating on the field like you won the league is ridiculous.
     
  17. Matra2

    Matra2 Master

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    At the high pro-level I don't see why they can't have some automatic electronically-delivered signal to the referee from a central location in the stadium but that may be too high tech to go to out of the blue.

    Yes, an ice hockey blue line. I remember suggesting that to relatives back during the USA 1994 World Cup - they were horrified by the suggestion! But the same people didn't like the American suggestion at the time of notifying the fans how much time added there would be. The US media constantly complained about this and ridiculed the secrecy of how much injury time there'd be. I think that really sped up the decision to do something about it. The EPL didn't adopt the system until 3 or 4 years after Serie A. There was even resistance from "traditionalists" to doing that! So anything more radical will be difficult. Wales and Northern Ireland* along with Michel Platini have objected to goal-line technology which to me is the next obvious change to make. Though they recently agreed to test technology so they may eventually accept it. Sept Blatter seems confident.

    * The four British home nations have a disproportionate say on rule changes as they are members of IFAB and each has a vote along with four other FIFA members. I think six of the eight members have to vote for a change to be made but England and Scotland won't go against Wales (who don't even have a league) and Northern Ireland.
     
  18. Europe

    Europe Mentor

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    I didn't know that they didn't tell the fans the injury time.

    Why won't England disagree with Wales or NI?
     
  19. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    you can also add the sponsors to the list: on the picture we can see manchester city's sponsor etihad airlines (from united arab emirates) and i think that QPR's sponsor is malaysia airlines

    also cisse shows a good example of that ridiculous haircut that most players have nowadays
    how long before nasri has the same haircut too?

    the same technology than goal line technology could be used
     
  20. Matra2

    Matra2 Master

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    Europe,

    I think it's just a case of England and scotland looking out for the smaller, poorer British Football Associations. I believe NI's opposition was due to cost and that poorer countries asked NI and Wales to vote against anything that raised the cost of the game but I can't recall where I heard that. Another possible reason for NI and Wales opposing it is that in the past the all-powerful Sept Blatter did not want any changes made - something that probably helped his popularity with African (ie poorer members of FIFA) whose votes he needed for re-election. Now that Blatter has changed his mind - he already won re-election, got his African World Cup, and then saw what happened in the now infamous Lampard "goal" against Germany - NI and Wales have backed down.

    I suspect NI and Wales are conscious of their privileged (possibly archaic) position in world football, a legacy of the sport being invented in the UK, and don't want to be seen obstructing what the more powerful countries want.

    Frederic,

    Yes, I thought the same technology could be used without too much adjustment for offsides. But in the past I've heard the authorities refer to a sensor in the ball that could determine if it crossed the line. That would be more difficult for offsides as the censor would have to be able to distinguish between forwards and defenders. See Wikipedia article:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goal-line_technology

    According to the above article FIFA has approved Goalref (the magnetic sensor) and Hawkeye (from tennis) for a second phase of testing. So it will be one of those that is eventually chosen for goal-lines. So at a future date they might also use them for offsides as well.
     
  21. Matra2

    Matra2 Master

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    More on Goalref:

    It goes on to say:
    http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/en/pr/presse/2012/Maerz/goalref.jsp

    It sounds as if adjusting the goal-line technology to also track offsides could be done quite easily.

    Next up: Was it a penalty or not? :smile:

    [video=youtube;LdgRIIN-6I0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdgRIIN-6I0[/video]
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2012
  22. Europe

    Europe Mentor

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    It's stupid to make all the leagues use it if they want to implement it. The BPL can use it. The don't have to male NI use it. It's so crazy. They are saying that we can't approve technology because Africa can't use it. Really dumb.
     
  23. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

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    Goal line technology could be OK. Instant replay is much harder. It works well only in sports where action is constantly interrupted like american football or tennis. European football is much more fluid (the game can go on for many minutes without interruption) and introducing this kind of technology could be disruptive and kill the fluidity. It might be done only in certain well defined scenarios:
    - Goal allowed (but was wrong)
    - Goal dissalowed (but was good)
    - Penalty allowed
    Red card showed is more difficult. It can involve verbal insults for which replay doesn't really work. Red card not showed and penalty not allowed even more difficult, because it would involve stopping the game for uncertain reasons. Also, the number of contested calls per team/game should be limited (2 or 3).
    In any case, I believe that in a "healthy" competition (the German Bundesliga, for example), referee errors even out as the number of games increases (law of big numbers). Also, I have the impression that all this talk about introducing technology everywhere has more to do with moneybags (who run the show in today's football) wanting to "protect their investment", than with genuine concern about the honesty of the game. If honesty was a serious concern, they would start by immediately make betting "verboten"...Most of the rot in recent years came exactly from there. Instead, betting companies are some of the largest team sponsors!
    Besides, referee errors make for absolutely fascinating conversation topics including interesting conspiracy theories :biggrin:
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2012
  24. Matra2

    Matra2 Master

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    They could probably ban betting companies from advertising at matches and club sponsorship* but betting is a legal issue beyond their control. In a lot of European countries bookies are normal storefront businesses like restaurants and banks. In Britain and Ireland the authorities in each sport will punish any athlete who is caught betting on an event that he is participating in - that's not the case in Spain - and they will work with betting agencies to try to enforce such rules. An outright ban is unimaginable.

    * Even that might not be permitted under current laws. Betting companies could claim discrimination and unfair commercial practices as betting is a perfectly legal commercial activity. It would have to go the way of the decades long legal issues regarding tobacco sponsorship.
     
  25. Matra2

    Matra2 Master

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    As to the issue of the flow of the game it's true that too much technology could disrupt it. That's why I think tech should only come into it if it is a goal scoring opportunity. You could also go the NFL route and have, say, one 'replay challenge' per team per match of a referee's decision. In the latter case there's no way they'll challenge a common foul or yellow card knowing that they may need to save their 'replay challenge' for a late penalty call.

    I fully expect that once goal line technology comes into use, and is shown to be fine, FIFA will then utilise technology in other areas of the game. I also fully expect FIFA (given its track record) to constantly make the wrong decisions on which areas of the game they target.:icon_rolleyes:
     

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