first American Pride
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White Shogun
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A few observations about the Pride event in Las Vegas:
The Fedor-Coleman fight was billed as the USA vs Russia. They spent several minutes of film showing Coleman with his kids, close ups of him talking about his family, etc. All of Fedor's clips showed him swinging sledge hammers, pulling tubes on a playground gym, and working calisthenics in a mat room. The announcers referenced the Cold War at least a dozen times. I was getting a little annoyed by this, because I felt like it was a disservice to Fedor, who is a quiet family man himself. But the fight started, and it was soon forgotten.
Coleman showed a lot of heart, but Fedor.. well, what can you say? Dispassionate, machine-like.. they all fit. He manhandled Coleman like a child. Defeated Coleman's sprawl, landed viscious punches.. and the one time Coleman managed to take him to the ground, Fedor submitted him in less than a minute by arm bar.
The events of the post-fight were almost enough to make a grown man cry. Coleman appeared to have taken this loss very hard. Tears in his eyes. He called to his children in the audience, two small girls about 6 and 8 years old, told them he loved them and that he was okay. (I know, why were his kids watching him fight? But anyway..) It was one big mushy hug fest - and then Coleman picked them both up and carried them over to Fedor.
Coleman told his daughters to say hi to Fedor, "He's a nice man. He's a NICE MAN. Say hi to him!" The girls waved timidly at Fedor. He smiled and then appeared to be apologizing to them, but Coleman cut him off and said, "No, it's okay! No!" while shaking his head. They joked around for a moment, after which Coleman left the ring.
It was a great, GREAT, display of class and sportsmanship by these two men. Great fighters, with lots of heart.
Awesome.
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In the first event of the night, Robbie Lawler destroyed an unbeaten Hispanic fighter from New Mexico. He landed one punch to the face that rocked the Mexican, then a flying knee that put the Mexican on his back. A few punches to the face and it was all over.
The Mexican, Villesenor, known as the Mexican assassin, was asked in the pre-fight show why he fights. He said that he fights for his people, for his heritage, and for Mexicans. He said he fights for his culture, to represent his people.
wtf? Well, everyone on this board knows my thoughts on his comments. When will a white man ever be able to get into the ring and say he fights for HIS people? This Villesenor is an AMERICAN, born in NEW MEXICO, but he fights for HIS PEOPLE, who are MEXICANS.
What's left to be said? Double-standard at it's best.
_______________________________________________________
Kevin Randleman was advertised as the 'most explosive,' and 'most athletic' fighter in Pride. The announcers continuously bragged about his athletic prowess, and went through a litany of Randleman's wrestling accomplishments, from high school through college. The blipped over his record in Pride though; 4-6.
Shogun Rua was 9-1 going into this fight. He has been billed as an up and comer in Pride, and one of their most exciting fighters.
Guess who went into the ring last, guess who got the longest ring time, guess who got the most camera time between the two? Of course: Randleman.
At the bell, Randleman literally rushed across the ring and slammed Shogun to the ground. Almost immediately, Shogun had him in an ankle lock. The only thing that saved Randleman was holding on to the ropes. The referee and the Japanese ring handlers kept slapping at his hand, and even tried to pry it off the ropes, but Randleman held on for dear life. The ref was in his face, warning him, yelling at him to let go of the rope.
Once they got his hand free, Shogun lost the ankle lock and went for a knee bar. It looked excruciatingly painful when he straightened the leg, and Randleman tapped.
The pre-fight hype was ridiculously in Randleman's favor. The guy has a losing record but continues to get close to top-billing in these events. His fight was the next to last fight before Fedors; but Dan Henderson, the current Pride Middleweight Champion, and Josh Barnett, runner-up at the Pride OWGP, both had matches before his. Henderson's match didn't even make the post-halftime lineup.
Needless to say, it was thrilling to watch him lose in such convincing fashion.
_______________________________________________________
The difference between the Pride and UFC shows is quite noticeable. Pride telecasts all of the fights on the card, whereas the UFC charges more for the event but shows only the top 4 fights, unless those end earlier.
The fighters making Pride events appear to be almost head and shoulders in caliber above those who fight in the UFC, especially on the use of submissions. Pride encourages this because the 'lay 'n pray' technique that wins decisions in the UFC will get you a warning and may cost you 10% of your purse.
There were no elbows in this event, just like in Japan's Pride events, but to receive sanctioning in the US they had to discontinue use of kicks and knees to downed opponents. Nevertheless, the matches were exciting and moved at a quick pace.
If you can catch one of the replays, I highly recommend it.
The Fedor-Coleman fight was billed as the USA vs Russia. They spent several minutes of film showing Coleman with his kids, close ups of him talking about his family, etc. All of Fedor's clips showed him swinging sledge hammers, pulling tubes on a playground gym, and working calisthenics in a mat room. The announcers referenced the Cold War at least a dozen times. I was getting a little annoyed by this, because I felt like it was a disservice to Fedor, who is a quiet family man himself. But the fight started, and it was soon forgotten.
Coleman showed a lot of heart, but Fedor.. well, what can you say? Dispassionate, machine-like.. they all fit. He manhandled Coleman like a child. Defeated Coleman's sprawl, landed viscious punches.. and the one time Coleman managed to take him to the ground, Fedor submitted him in less than a minute by arm bar.
The events of the post-fight were almost enough to make a grown man cry. Coleman appeared to have taken this loss very hard. Tears in his eyes. He called to his children in the audience, two small girls about 6 and 8 years old, told them he loved them and that he was okay. (I know, why were his kids watching him fight? But anyway..) It was one big mushy hug fest - and then Coleman picked them both up and carried them over to Fedor.
Coleman told his daughters to say hi to Fedor, "He's a nice man. He's a NICE MAN. Say hi to him!" The girls waved timidly at Fedor. He smiled and then appeared to be apologizing to them, but Coleman cut him off and said, "No, it's okay! No!" while shaking his head. They joked around for a moment, after which Coleman left the ring.
It was a great, GREAT, display of class and sportsmanship by these two men. Great fighters, with lots of heart.
Awesome.
--------------------------------------------------------
In the first event of the night, Robbie Lawler destroyed an unbeaten Hispanic fighter from New Mexico. He landed one punch to the face that rocked the Mexican, then a flying knee that put the Mexican on his back. A few punches to the face and it was all over.
The Mexican, Villesenor, known as the Mexican assassin, was asked in the pre-fight show why he fights. He said that he fights for his people, for his heritage, and for Mexicans. He said he fights for his culture, to represent his people.
wtf? Well, everyone on this board knows my thoughts on his comments. When will a white man ever be able to get into the ring and say he fights for HIS people? This Villesenor is an AMERICAN, born in NEW MEXICO, but he fights for HIS PEOPLE, who are MEXICANS.
What's left to be said? Double-standard at it's best.
_______________________________________________________
Kevin Randleman was advertised as the 'most explosive,' and 'most athletic' fighter in Pride. The announcers continuously bragged about his athletic prowess, and went through a litany of Randleman's wrestling accomplishments, from high school through college. The blipped over his record in Pride though; 4-6.
Shogun Rua was 9-1 going into this fight. He has been billed as an up and comer in Pride, and one of their most exciting fighters.
Guess who went into the ring last, guess who got the longest ring time, guess who got the most camera time between the two? Of course: Randleman.
At the bell, Randleman literally rushed across the ring and slammed Shogun to the ground. Almost immediately, Shogun had him in an ankle lock. The only thing that saved Randleman was holding on to the ropes. The referee and the Japanese ring handlers kept slapping at his hand, and even tried to pry it off the ropes, but Randleman held on for dear life. The ref was in his face, warning him, yelling at him to let go of the rope.
Once they got his hand free, Shogun lost the ankle lock and went for a knee bar. It looked excruciatingly painful when he straightened the leg, and Randleman tapped.
The pre-fight hype was ridiculously in Randleman's favor. The guy has a losing record but continues to get close to top-billing in these events. His fight was the next to last fight before Fedors; but Dan Henderson, the current Pride Middleweight Champion, and Josh Barnett, runner-up at the Pride OWGP, both had matches before his. Henderson's match didn't even make the post-halftime lineup.
Needless to say, it was thrilling to watch him lose in such convincing fashion.
_______________________________________________________
The difference between the Pride and UFC shows is quite noticeable. Pride telecasts all of the fights on the card, whereas the UFC charges more for the event but shows only the top 4 fights, unless those end earlier.
The fighters making Pride events appear to be almost head and shoulders in caliber above those who fight in the UFC, especially on the use of submissions. Pride encourages this because the 'lay 'n pray' technique that wins decisions in the UFC will get you a warning and may cost you 10% of your purse.
There were no elbows in this event, just like in Japan's Pride events, but to receive sanctioning in the US they had to discontinue use of kicks and knees to downed opponents. Nevertheless, the matches were exciting and moved at a quick pace.
If you can catch one of the replays, I highly recommend it.
Good recap WS.
I also got the PPV and thought it was great.
Regarding Fedor/ Coleman: I was a little worried about Fedor fighting in the US for the first time. I thought that all of the attention would go to his head and he would get careless. Silly me. As soon as I saw Fedor walk out to the ring with his characteristic poker face I knew he would win. All business. Coleman is a good guy and I respect what he's been able to do but it might be time to move on. His little girls were scared sh*tless up there. Fedor wasn't even breathing heavy and looked good throughout the fight. He looks like he may have dropped about ten lbs also.
As far as a future opponent for Fedor is concerned I think it is time for Josh Barnett to get a shot...provided of course Fedor can defeat Cro-Cop if/when they have a rematch.
All they talked about was Coleman being a "family man" and I kept saying to the TV "Fedor's a family man too dammit!!"
Regarding Randleman/ Shogun: For all of his affleticism Randleman is, well...a dumb fighter. He rushed in like the proverbial bull in a china shop and got subbed. Over at Sherdog the article they have calls Randleman's record "misleading." PFFFT. Didn't look misleading to me.
Barnett took some shots but came out on top with a nice ankle lock.
And don't forget Butterbean. He's become a folk hero of sorts here in Amerikwa.
All in all a good night of fights. Our guys did well.
Anderson who?
I also got the PPV and thought it was great.
Regarding Fedor/ Coleman: I was a little worried about Fedor fighting in the US for the first time. I thought that all of the attention would go to his head and he would get careless. Silly me. As soon as I saw Fedor walk out to the ring with his characteristic poker face I knew he would win. All business. Coleman is a good guy and I respect what he's been able to do but it might be time to move on. His little girls were scared sh*tless up there. Fedor wasn't even breathing heavy and looked good throughout the fight. He looks like he may have dropped about ten lbs also.
As far as a future opponent for Fedor is concerned I think it is time for Josh Barnett to get a shot...provided of course Fedor can defeat Cro-Cop if/when they have a rematch.
All they talked about was Coleman being a "family man" and I kept saying to the TV "Fedor's a family man too dammit!!"
Regarding Randleman/ Shogun: For all of his affleticism Randleman is, well...a dumb fighter. He rushed in like the proverbial bull in a china shop and got subbed. Over at Sherdog the article they have calls Randleman's record "misleading." PFFFT. Didn't look misleading to me.
Barnett took some shots but came out on top with a nice ankle lock.
And don't forget Butterbean. He's become a folk hero of sorts here in Amerikwa.
All in all a good night of fights. Our guys did well.
Anderson who?
White Shogun
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Poacher, did they say Butterbean was scheduled to fight Mark Hunt?
The only reason I don't give Esch more respect is he never seems to fight anybody that is any good. The guy he fought last night was 1-1 and making his Pride debut!
The only reason I don't give Esch more respect is he never seems to fight anybody that is any good. The guy he fought last night was 1-1 and making his Pride debut!
White Shogun said:
Yeah he was supposed to fight Hunt. That would have been great. Instead he fought a rather large newcomer named Sean O'Haire.
I would just make BB chase me around the ring until he had a heart attack.
Also, I think Wanderlei Silva has a serious fixation with Chuck. Man-love perhaps?Edited by: Poacher
White Shogun
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Poacher said:
Well, didn't he say he wanted to 'fack Chack.. I mean, fight Chuck?' lol
I'm not sure what the deal is. Dana White wants to make it seem like Pride is the one backing out of negotiations; but then Pride has Silva come out and call out Chuck, live.
I think the UFC should have Tito and Silva fight a rematch. Tito won the first one; the UFC is fond of rematches; and they don't have to risk their champion losing to a Pride fighter.
white is right
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Silva takes a serious dose of PED's he took so much over the years that he has an ape like face now. He actually took so much HGH that I thought he was partially black until I saw photos of him in his army uniform.......Poacher said:
I saw the Butterbean fight on youtube. Wasn't his opponent the same Sean O'Haire of WCW and WWE fame?
The Pride fights I've seen so far don't look vastly superior to UFC. There's a lot of turnover between the organizations. Silva, Randleman, and Barnett definitely didn't dominate during their stays in UFC.
The Pride fights I've seen so far don't look vastly superior to UFC. There's a lot of turnover between the organizations. Silva, Randleman, and Barnett definitely didn't dominate during their stays in UFC.
White Shogun
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The best guys on the UFC shows are fighting on the undercards, IMO. Guys like Jason MacDonald and Clay Guida.
A chief criticism of the UFC is that too many of their fighters are able to achieve a decision victory by takedown and lay 'n pray on their opponents.
By comparison, you rarely see a Pride fight end with such a lackluster performance. The only one that ended that way on last night's card was Dan Henderson's victory of Vitor Belfort, which was still a good and entertaining fight.
A chief criticism of the UFC is that too many of their fighters are able to achieve a decision victory by takedown and lay 'n pray on their opponents.
By comparison, you rarely see a Pride fight end with such a lackluster performance. The only one that ended that way on last night's card was Dan Henderson's victory of Vitor Belfort, which was still a good and entertaining fight.
Did Coleman look smaller to you guys? I wondered what would happen with some of these fighters when they ventured over here to the States. Good thing that Barnett got his license back! I'm sure he had to take urine tests before and after the fight!
We know that the UFC MW and HW divisions are a joke. So how would Hughes, Liddell, and Sherk fare in Pride?
Lay 'n pray, does that mean takedown, stay in the guard, hit him every now and then, etc?
Interesting. I didn't know elbows weren't allowed in Pride. Is that meant to reduce cuts?
Edited by: JD074
White Shogun said:
We know that the UFC MW and HW divisions are a joke. So how would Hughes, Liddell, and Sherk fare in Pride?
Lay 'n pray, does that mean takedown, stay in the guard, hit him every now and then, etc?
Interesting. I didn't know elbows weren't allowed in Pride. Is that meant to reduce cuts?
Edited by: JD074
White Shogun
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JD,
Yeah, that's the extent of lay 'n pray: score the takedown and keep the guy pinned under you while you try to remain 'active' in the guard. Although Tito brutalized Ken while in Shammy's guard, Tito is known for lay 'n pray. Another fighter who is picking up a reputation for that is *gasp* Rashad Evans.
I'm not sure of the rational behind the ban on elbows. But it does cut down on cuts and you can still KO someone from the mount with your fists, e.g. Fedor Emilianenko.
I think Hughes would do fine. Sherk and Liddell would have some competition in their divisions.
Yeah, that's the extent of lay 'n pray: score the takedown and keep the guy pinned under you while you try to remain 'active' in the guard. Although Tito brutalized Ken while in Shammy's guard, Tito is known for lay 'n pray. Another fighter who is picking up a reputation for that is *gasp* Rashad Evans.
I'm not sure of the rational behind the ban on elbows. But it does cut down on cuts and you can still KO someone from the mount with your fists, e.g. Fedor Emilianenko.
I think Hughes would do fine. Sherk and Liddell would have some competition in their divisions.
Pride versus UFC: It's fun to speculate, but you have no idea how they would turn out until they get in the ring. Case in point: Liddell destroys Ortiz; Ortiz manhandles Wanderlei; Wanderlei KTFO's Rampage Jackson twice; Jackson beats Liddell badly. Some fighters and some styles just go well with others.
Cro-Cop and Fedor are the two top commodities in Pride. But Randelman owns a knockout victory over Mirko in a few seconds (yes, he lost the rematch) and nearly broke Fedor's neck in a slam (yes, he tapped out seconds later). But Liddell knocked out Randelman with a left hand.
Yes, it's fun to speculate. But I have no idea how the two UFC Silva champions would do against their pride counterparts.
Cro-Cop and Fedor are the two top commodities in Pride. But Randelman owns a knockout victory over Mirko in a few seconds (yes, he lost the rematch) and nearly broke Fedor's neck in a slam (yes, he tapped out seconds later). But Liddell knocked out Randelman with a left hand.
Yes, it's fun to speculate. But I have no idea how the two UFC Silva champions would do against their pride counterparts.
White Shogun
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Who are the two UFC Silvas? Anderson and Tim Sylvia?
White Shogun said:
Yes, Silva and Sylv(i)a.
Below are the disclosed Pride Salaries for their American debut. There were only 8079 paid fans at the event with another 4042 fans given free tickets. They usually draw 35000+ in Japan.
MMA Weekly said:
Despite Randleman's mediocre record he still draws top dollar. O'Haire got 15 grand to go a few seconds with Butterbean.
white is right
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Damn those purses are low. They should have stayed in Japan. In Japan they could have made double that. Then again there is no way the shot Coleman would have got a titleshot against Fedor in Japan. Coleman is the MMA version of Holyfield....
White Shogun said:
Yeah, he's the one I was thinking of (maybe you already knew that
I can go either way on that, but it's not a bad idea.
Who's the WW champ in Pride? Actually, I'm not totally sure of the other champs: Gomi, Henderson, and Silva? (And of course, Fedor. I definitely know that one!) Henderson lost somewhat recently, but I guess his belt wasn't on the line.
Good points, Triad. Although I don't think it's going out on a limb to say that Fedor would beat Sylvia. I'm sure he could beat a lot of Pride HW's though. But other than that match up, you're right, it's hard to say. There are some fighters who have "defected" to Pride after struggling in the UFC (Baroni and Frank Trigg come to mind.) On the other hand, maybe others left because of more money there.
Edited by: JD074
Another PRIDE fighter is having trouble with the American drug testing.
Randleman provided fake urine
Randleman provided fake urine