west african are faster on avarage

Discussion in 'Track & Field' started by waterbed, Jun 20, 2010.

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blacks are naturally faster on avarage

  1. 00that blacks do beter at 100 meter is not genetic

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  2. blacks are faster on average genetically

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  1. freedom1

    freedom1 Mentor

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    There are differences. We don't JUST have different paint jobs as the nurture/behaviorist types would have us believe.

    This being said, the caste system is real. Its most obvious manifestations are in American football and American sprinting. Running back is the most extreme example. This is pure, 100% racism.

    There is enough evidence from history, e.g., Borzov, to indicate that it is possible for a white man to reach the top in sprinting. There is also enough evidence to show that that top person will usually be black.

    That blacks are slightly faster isn't such a bad thing when you weigh it against all the things that whites are way better at.

    When you talk about the far right end of the bell curve, very slight differences will matter big time in sprinting where hundredths of seconds separate ranks.
     
  2. ToughJ.Riggins

    ToughJ.Riggins Hall of Famer

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    That's kind of how I see it. I believe a lot of arguments presented here. However, when considering the steroid argument- you have to remember that whites like Kenteris who reached the top- also are highly suspected of steroids. Looking back at the history of the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s- I have come up with the hypothesis that about 0.15 seconds separate the top 5 blacks and whites at 100 meters (instead of the current 0.3 or 0.4 second current gap)- when you consider the times/records and all the cultural phenomenon going in the history of sprinting.

    But even if the top blacks are usually slightly faster- a guy like Lemaitre could run a PB 9.83 in the finals in London and get a silver or something (maybe right behind Bolt who may run a high 9.6x). We CAN hold our own here- and when an amazingly talented white sprinter like Lemaitre happens to run his best race in the Olympic finals...He COULD WIN A MEDAL!

    Now getting back to the "superior" talk- if you guys recall the opinions I gave in the "black athlete" thread, I came to the conclusion that whites are the best "all round athletes" in the world. I think about 80% of the MLS should be white, about 70-75% of the NFL should be white (with even WR and Powerback being a 70% white- race neutral- position) and about 55% of the NBA should be white.

    West African blacks, DO NOT have a faster first two steps- which are vitally important for tailbacks, Flanker and slot WRs. West African Blacks ARE NOT faster at 400 meters or 800 meters- whites win medals at these events, including golds in recent history. White speed position players seem to have equal or better 10 yard, short shuttle and 3-cone times at their Pro Days then blacks. So does it really matter so much that blacks may have a slight edge amongst elites at 40 yards and the broad jump?

    Oh yeah, I should mention that most of the top bench and squat max lifts- listed at White Rivals- are from whites. Yes, whites dominate strong man competitions. There should be no question at all that whites are PHENOMENAL athletes and probably the BEST ALL ROUND athletes in the world. Even if blacks have a slight edge to play split end WR, scatback or CB in football, this in no way should make us feel inferior with all the things whites hold an edge at in football (both American and European football!) and also other positions and sporting events we REALLY EXCEL at! Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins
     
  3. Observer

    Observer Mentor

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    In the 40, I would think that a good measure of "football speed" can be gained by simply (a) count the number of strides, and (b) divide by the time. The guys with the highest resultant value are the ones who have their feet on the ground, and are thus able to move, cut, and adjust.
     
  4. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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  5. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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  6. ToughJ.Riggins

    ToughJ.Riggins Hall of Famer

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    This is a good point about the different kinds of speed. This is why guys like Wes Welker, Danny Amendola and Devone Bess (who run the 40 in the low to mid 4.6s), who have short choppy steps, but lose basically ZERO speed when making a quick cut and have a phenomenal first few steps are so good (or freakishly good if you're Welker) in the slot. Another example of football speed would be similar guys- like Brian Westbrook or Dexter McCluster- who have made good receiving tailbacks at the high levels of football- or would make similarly good slot WRs (they have speed in the high 4.5s).

    Matt Jones and Randy Moss are a different kind of long striding speed and make good WRs on the deep routes (Z WRs/split ends), but wouldn't make very good slot WRs or obviously tailbacks.

    Edited to add: Wes Welker would certainly make a great scatback (just as he did in H.S) as well. Another thing to point out is some guys who don't have a very long strider type speed, (but have amazingly fast leg kadance) are also VERY FAST like Sam McGuffie, Danny Woodhead, Jake Sharp, Nate Soelberg, Isaiah Pead, Percy Harvin or Chris Johnson.Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins
     
  7. mastermulti

    mastermulti Mentor

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    "Locomotion is essentially a continual process of falling forward, and mass that falls from a higher altitude, falls faster," Bejan explained



    ........ so the best advice to give to a budding young white sprinter is to learn to run with a brick on his head [​IMG]
     
  8. ToughJ.Riggins

    ToughJ.Riggins Hall of Famer

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    I have this to respond to "not" a BrockFan's boxing theories: My theory is that eastern Euros (Slavs) make the best boxers amongst whites. People of Russia, the Ukraine (although not a former Soviet state), (but there are also some former Soviet states during the Cold War like Belarus, Latvia? etc.) are still poor, but since the fall of communism in the Soviet Union, these peoples have taken up boxing at a very high rate as stronger economies have started to grow. The people have become confident in their opportunities and skill etc. Vatali and Wladimir Klitchko were not raised to believe blacks are superior boxers like whites in America have. Vatali and Wladimir (who are Slavs) have worked their tails off to reach the top (in not just boxing, but science too)...They are NOT afraid and DO NOT feel inferior to black boxers- and have enjoyed the sport of boxing and the better conditions of living in Eastern Europe as more athletes arise out of those lands and get great support from their countrymen!

    Does this mean that western Euros and southern Euros like Celts and Latin Euros can't compete in the upper levels of boxing? No it doesn't mean this, but may be a slight tendency at the furthest end of the bell curve. I think the Eastern Euros- from middle weight up- have shown that they are on equal footing with black boxers.

    If I'd have to estimate, I'd say that whites (Celts, Latins and Slavs) hold a slight edge in the upper weight classes of the UFC, but in boxing Slavs and West Africans are at the top and pretty equal. I believe in small differences amongst different races in athletics. I also think most sports should very closely reflect a nation's racial demographics when you look at the make up of it's upper level sports...So who's the racist here Brock?

    My theories come from studying film of different people in sports while competing and studying their measurables and size. Many Eastern Euro boxers also seem to have stronger chins than Celts and Latin Euros and seems to resist knockout at a similar rate to blacks. Eastern Euros and also Scandinavians seem to be the strongest Euros as well- when you look at strongmen competitions. I simply look at who is at the top in different sports as well.

    Run with bricks falling on his head Mastermulti. I think Vatali could do this! Vatali has an amazing chin!
     
  9. FastEuro

    FastEuro Newbie

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    The Higher center of gravity (long legs in relation to torso ) makes sense in sprinting, but how did Michael Johnson succeed with his short legs and long torso (white type body)?
     
  10. Observer

    Observer Mentor

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    masterm, you beat me to it! At first glance, that is such a stupid statement. So a 7' person automatically runs faster than a 6 footer because his belly button is falling from a greater height? Anyone with a brain would simply say, "Oh, sure, that bigh belly-button idea makes sense because it means a big person's legs are carrying a small person's upper body."

    If I'd lose 40 pounds of my torso, I'd be an Olympian -- and my belly-button height wouldn't have changed a bit. I used to be really fast as a youngster, but didn't get much faster later. Putting 100 pounds mostly on top has a tendency to make the legs work harder.

    But maybe Bejan has a point. There is gravity and the inverse-squared rule. According to Bejan, a person who is twice is tall should thus be about 4x faster. However, it in fact seems to be the case that twice as tall is about 60% faster.Edited by: Observer
     
  11. Observer

    Observer Mentor

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    I think the next revolution in sport will be when people begin to appreciate the torso as the athletic engine. Yes, many people do recognize core strength, but few seem to really comprehend that the larger torso often means better lungs -- and better lungs mean not only more immediate endurance, but also the ability to train harder and recover from that training. Of course, drugs can also help in this process, and thus small-torsoed people can then begin to compete with the training capacity of those with big lungs.

    If Michael Johnson would have been so gracious as to bleach himself white, there would have been many shorter-legged kids emulating him and attaining speeds that were at least the equal of their longer-legged peers.

    No one is truly fast without training. When people judge the potential of a runner by the length of his legs, I think of the millions of simpletons who judge the value of an object simply by its price without reference to quality.

    Now, with all of that said about the importance and value of the torso, I think a large torso can be a detriment in sprinting when this largeness means added weight. In other words, big lungs are helpful for almost everything, but a large mass of muscle on top may not be so helpful in anything longer than a very short sprint.Edited by: Observer
     
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