waterbed, thanks for an interesting thread. Two things: 1) On that boxing side-track: I can understand that as the Italians and Irish migrated out of boxing here in America, they left behind a great American boxing tradition -- into which hungry Blacks entered, and then later the Hispanics. And also that when the Iron Curtain crashed, there were thousands of physically and mentally tough young Slavic men eager for the new opportunities afforded to them in the post-Communist environment. But what is behind the strong tradition in Cuban boxing? I know that their "amateurs" are really "pros"; but even so, these skills are not acquired easily. What is the history behind why Cubans are so competitive in boxing? 2) On that bit about the 40 yard times: quickness & speed are almost inversely proportional. Obviously, long legs often do not make for quickness or agility. Quarterhorses vs. thoroughbreds. I remember a cousin of mine -- very long, loping strides -- almost worthless in a sport like football. But from about 1/8th to 1/2 mile he was something to behold. But I'm surprised that a little squirt like Trindon Holliday doesn't scorch the other 40-yard guys. A true high-end sprinter like Justin Gatlin wouldn't even have made that 40-yard listing (he timed in the 4.4's, although perhaps slightly injured) -- but most of those on the list would not have been within 10 meters of him (about 0.8 seconds) in a 100m sprint. And as far as football siphoning speed away from the track -- I think it's just the opposite. My reasoning is that football CREATES tracksters as a by-product of large-scale PED use. Football requires speed and bulk, and PED's do this. Now, as a byproduct of this, there is a huge pool of people who have the build needed for short-sprint talent. If the only goal were to use PED's for speed on the track, then if you get caught or not quite good enough -- you're done, no Plan B. But if for some reason your football hopes are dashed -- well, you have already built yourself into a viable short sprinter with the help of PED.