The defense of Vick

Discussion in 'Atlanta Falcons' started by Merauder30, Aug 22, 2007.

  1. Iron

    Iron Guru

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    What's with the vitriolic attack ,i'm not talking to you Deus Vult but the moderator of the site.I believe you even reffered to me as an ******* [​IMG] But thats alright.Faceless communication over an electronic community makes it slightly more impersonal and dos'nt raise the hackles as much as if the insult was to my face.Did what i say offend you that much,i've never attacked anyone whilst on this site or put anyone on the offensive,i dont post pick no matter their views and only really post if i feel i have something relative to add.The post i made did'nt offend you that much,i'm inclined to believe you just took it on yourself to play the hard man and start a needless war of words.

    I was'nt defending Vick,dogfighting or denigrating the points made by other posters in this thread,and it was'nt my intention to offend anyone who hunts game,merely just thinking aloud making the type of point that would be made in real conversation about the Vick case.That's what debate is all about is'nt it,weighing up the respective arguments.I did'nt expect the scorn of a hothead.

    As for the garbage points you make in support of the shooting of wild animals for sport.Bringing up the point that the animals will die a natural death because of attack,disease or starvation is ludicrous.The same ridicoulous argument was made by the pro fox hunting brigade who eventually lost their case in Britain.I'm not coming from some liberal,tree hugging lefty perspective of the rank and file members of animal rights organisations but hunting and killing animals for the purpose of entertainment is wrong.But of course the morality of wild hunting and its relationship with man made laws depends largly on culture and location.Deer hunting and other forms of hunting are banned in Britain under the HUNTING ACT 2004.So all your points would'nt wash in a British court or a number of other European country's.The Europeans enacted these laws because the distinction was established between the killing of livestock like sheep and lamb reared on farms for food and nutrition which forms an integral part of the economy for many nations of the world and cruel barbaric bloodsports.

    One of the other cases that was made by the hunting opposition which formed an integral part of their argument to the succesful banning in many country's was the suffering of the respective animals.The shooting of game such as foxes causes hours and in some instances days of agony for these animals, hiding underground having not been killed which counters the nonsense point you made that somehow giving them a quick bullet saves them from some inevitable slow painful death.

    Deer are beautiful,peaceful,non predatorial animals.For me shooting a dear for the sport of it,is no different than shooting a horse.I wonder if you support the systematic hunting of elephants for their tusks and tigers for their fur which has threatened the existance of these animals particularly the latter in recent years.Surely the poachers have a legitimacy from an economic perspective in the deeds they carry out.Why dont you try and play the BIG man and use all your powers as a moderator and ban me after calling me an *******.
     
  2. Jimmy Chitwood

    Jimmy Chitwood Hall of Famer

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    TA, the only place in the USA with a stable, breeding population of wolves islimited toYellowstone National Park, and the number of wolves there is carefully monitored by the Parks and Wildlife folks because of the concerns about wolves hunting domestic livestock.


    the rest of the nation has no wolf population at all, except for the rare wolf that is raised as a pet and released when it matures and people realize it's not a pet.


    also, hunters donate more money to conservation of wildlife and natural land practices and causes than ANY other group in the nation. hunting is not essential to live, of course, but it does serve a necessary and beneficial purpose to all game species.


    it is certainly not on par with dog fightingand the ghetto culture that endorses it.


    edited to add: i don't know much about the natural wildlife in Britain, but if things are as you say, Iron, then they are VASTLY different than in the USA.


    deer breed so rapidly that if their population isn't kept in check by some sort of predation (hunting, natural predators, sterilization, etc.) then they will rapidly become a nuisance animal. much like with feral cats and hares in Australia, the lack of natural predators remaining in the US make it essential to keep the deer population at a stable number.


    licensed hunting not only provides such a service, but it also provides tax revenue to enhance state and national parks, improved conservation practices at existing parks, and the purchase of more acreage to providehabitat for native wildlife.


    additionally, in the USA, every hunter that wants to hunt legally must pass a Hunter's Education Course. so it's not barbaric in the way i am understanding you to think.Edited by: Jimmy Chitwood
     
  3. jared

    jared Mentor

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    While you are certainly entitled to you opinions Iron, I have to disagree with you as well. There's a difference between killing Tigers and killing deer, it's called the endangered species list. You completely neglected to counter the VERY important point that deer don't have any natural predators left in most parts of this country. Overpopulation IS a real problem. Those deer that you would so benevolently spare from hunters (who are pretty tightly regulated) WILL probably at some point end up embedded in your radiator or worse. It's happened to me and I only visit Michigan seasonally.
    I'm not a hunter. If I were I imagine I would take the sport seriously and with respect. I'm sure there are many hunters that do and many casual yokels that don't. I'm sure the former can't stand the latter any more than you can. But I wouldn't villify the entire lot of them for it.
     
  4. Jimmy Chitwood

    Jimmy Chitwood Hall of Famer

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    as an additional aside, the deer population in the USA is at an all-time high. there are more deer living in the USA today than there were when the Pilgrims landed! [​IMG]


    a lot of that has to do with wolves being nearly exterminated, but still the deer are certainly not having to worry about replenishing their numbers. now if we could just get the buffalo to roam again... [​IMG]
     
  5. Bart

    Bart Hall of Famer

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    To put hunting in the same category as dog fighting is silly. It is really not even worthy of debate.It is an argument brought up primarily by blacks in an effort to absolve Vick. Why stop at hunting? What about fishing?Would it be a stretch to compare or equate angling with hunting? Why hasn't that tactic been used? Probably because blacks for the most part don't hunt, but they are known to enjoy fishing.
     
  6. Deus Vult

    Deus Vult Mentor

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    Jimmy, have you been out on the Plains lately? In the Dakotas, buffalo are everywhere. They are nearly as common as cattle in Texas.
     
  7. FieldThrower

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    Since black folks call themselves "dawgs" all the time, I wonder if this can be considered some type of fratricide or self-genocide.

    Seriously, I think this is twisted behavior. I don't really care for dogs, but I won't go out and put them in fights and brutally kill them as a form of "retirement" from their dog fighting career.
     
  8. Jimmy Chitwood

    Jimmy Chitwood Hall of Famer

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    really, Deus Vult? wow! i had no idea that the breeding efforts have been that successful. wow, indeed!


    i have seen several buffalo ranches though, but i have yet to taste a buffalo steak. i hope to remedy that shortly. at least, if it isn't illegal. [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  9. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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  10. Tom Iron

    Tom Iron Mentor

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    Don,

    Sounds reasonable to me. If he's unavailable to play due to non-injury issues, he's in violation of the contract.

    Tom Iron...
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The white post-modern man has spoken and been found wanting for spirit. Absolutely no one within the ranks of hunters condones cruelty and suffering of the game, only in the over active emotive set is this imagined and if the motive is pure it must be true. If someone compares my shot last year of 225 yards on a great mule deer buck with "BadNewsKennels" and what they propigated for years is a complete idiot that owes me an apology. Also some facts were wrong Great Britain still has hunting, and wolves do roam the Northern Midwest.
     
  12. RedBeard

    RedBeard Newbie

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    Here's a different take on the Vick situation, from a cat's point of view... [​IMG]

    http://www.thebrushback.com/cats_full.htm

    Cats Gather Outside Georgia Dome To Show Support For Michael Vick

    ATLANTA--Around 200 cats gathered outside the Georgia Dome on Saturday to voice their support for Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, who is facing jail time for the killing and maiming of dozens of dogs as part of an illegal dog fighting ring. The cats stood for hours in the sweltering heat carrying signs that read "Free Mike Vick," "Vick is a hero," and "The bastards had it coming."

    The protest illustrated the sharp divide between dog lovers and cats when it comes to dog fighting in this country.

    "This is a grave injustice," said 7-year-old Minnie. "Michael Vick is a hero in the cat community. By killing all those bloodthirsty, insane animals, he has saved the lives of hundreds of cats. Do you know what pit bulls do when they come across a stray cat? They eat them. Of course, nobody thinks about that. They just think about how cute and lovable they are. Well they're not so cute and lovable when they're sh*tting out your remains on the front lawn."

    Another cat, a 10-year-old American Shorthair named Butterscotch, blasted PETA and other animal right's groups for their hypocrisy on the matter.

    "PETA claims to be animal rights advocates, but they're very selective about which animals they are protecting," said Butterscotch. "Fact: dogs remain the biggest killers of cats in the world. Fact: dogs consider cats meals. Now, am I asking humans to go around killing dogs? No, I'm simply asking them to be a little more open-minded. Michael Vick is not a monster. He is the real victim in all this. Him and Bobby Petrino. I bet that poor bastard never thought his dream job would be ruined by a bunch of dead dogs."

    When the subject of dog fighting came up, many of the protesters pointed to the fact that pit bulls love to fight and are utterly worthless except as violent gladiators. They also noted that cats, unlike dogs, could not be bred to fight because they are naturally peaceful, Zen-like creatures.

    "Um...let me get this straight. Vick is being punished for making pit bulls fight each other?" asked Raggles, 8. "What exactly would those pit bulls do if they weren't fighting each other? Go to college? Join the Peace Corps? Pit bulls fight. That's just what they do. Cats, on the other hand, rarely fight, and when we do it's for legitimate reasons, not just for bloodlust. But hey, who cares about cats, right? We won't fetch your slippers, so we're worthless."

    To many, it came as a surprise that Vick still had supporters after accepting a plea deal and admitting to the killing of dogs. However, Falcons owner Arthur Blank said he understood where the cats were coming from and admitted to having mixed emotions himself.

    "It is a very complicated matter and I myself have mixed emotions," Blank told the Atlanta Journal Constitution. "Try as I may, I can't look at Michael as a hardened criminal or murderer. He's just a young guy who made a terrible mistake and did something really deplorable. As for the cats, of course they are going to have a different perspective on this than everyone else. To them, dogs are like terrorists and Mike Vick is like the U.S. government, only way, way more successful."

    As for PETA, the group maintains its staunch anti-Mike Vick stance despite the cats' protests, and believes the cats need a "reality check" if they think Vick is a hero.

    "Michael Vick is a deplorable, sick human being," said Ingrid Newkirk, director of PETA. "For these cats to stand there and say that he is a hero is pathetic. I don't care if they don't like dogs. Their petty prejudices are no excuse to stand behind someone who is, essentially, a murderer. Do they really think Michael was killing those dogs in order to save cats? He was killing them because he has no compassion for other living creatures. And believe me, he would have happily bred cats to fight if they weren't such pansies."
     
  13. jaxvid

    jaxvid Hall of Famer

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    I didn't call you an *******, I said don't be "among" the a-holes" that are equating Vick's fighting and breeding of dogs with hunting. However after reading your last post it is apparent you ARE among the a-holes so you can forget my good advice.
     
  14. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    I have eaten Buffalo meat. It tastes healthy. Picture a low fat burger. One of my favourite exotic dishes.
     
  15. ToughJ.Riggins

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    A closer comparison to dog fighting then hunting would be bull fighting. I really dislike Bull fighting, but realize it is a long tradition in Spanish culture.

    Bull fighting is a tradition where a man makes a game out of maneuvering around a bull risking his injury and then kills the Bull for a game. It has nothing to do with giving yourself sustinence, conservation or population control. However, Bullfighting is not illegal where it is done in Spanish tradition in Spain and Mexico etc. as dog fighting is in America where dogs are mans best friend.

    I would also assume that when the Bull fighter kills the defeated Bull with the sword it is quicker then the torturous injuries in fighting these dogs faced and then the drowning and hanging at the hands of Vick when they didn't perform. Bull fighting is also a risk to the Bull fighter as the rare one has died in competition so it is a more acceptable game in my opinion although still very cruel. I don't know for sure about dog fighting still being common in Britain and Germany, but I assume that it is fairly rare and it is not accepted there anymore amongst the civilizedEdited by: ToughJ.Riggins
     
  16. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

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    I wonder why these guys just didn't shoot these dogs instead of electrocuting, drowning, and especially hanging them. It seems to me that instead of just wishing to dispose of the dogs they received some perverse enjoyment from torturing them. I can see them all standing around laughing and pointing, hooting and hollering while the dog thrashes in agony.

    F*** them all.
     
  17. FieldThrower

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  18. Bart

    Bart Hall of Famer

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    I just heard a commentary about the Vick situation by someone named Josh Elliott of ESPN radio. He said that he wished it was a WHITE player involved in the dog fightingscandalinstead of Michael Vick, because of the negative impact on race relations. It's not a racial thing,could have been anybody, he said.Ha ha ha. The spin-meisters never give up. Who does he think he's fooling?
     
  19. RedBeard

    RedBeard Newbie

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    I'm sure this really is Rooney's dream. I really hate these people. It's bad enough that the Rooney's cried and whined until the people of Pittsburgh and the state of Pennsylvania were forced to cough up big bucks to give them a new stadium, a waste of money that gets used a whopping 15 times a year, but now that we have to put up with Dan Rooney's constant self hatred of his race. It's just too much. It really wish they would give away the team and get the f*ck out of this city and this country.

    In more breaking new, the Steelers continued their quest for an all black league today by quickly jettisoning Dan Sheldon. Edited by: RedBeard
     
  20. Gi-15

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    Really good article from jason whitlock here
     
  21. sport historian

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    Many media types pray for a Great White Athlete Defendant.
     
  22. texasheat

    texasheat Newbie

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    That Jason Whitlock has written a LOT of articles that make a ton of sense this past year. Starting w/the NBA All-Star Game & continuing forward he's made a lot of good points. The sad thing is he gets called an Uncle Tom, a sellout, a white man's caddy, etc for not sticking up for the black man no matter what. Fact is he's on target. If more people had the kind of thinking shown in his articles this country would run a lot more smoothly than it does now.
     
  23. Deus Vult

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    Are you near Little Rock? Surely, there are restaurants in Little Rock that serve Bison Burgers. Ruby Tuesday has Bison Burgers on the menu.

    Bison meat is more lean than beef, but not tough or gamey. Good stuff.

    See: http://tenderbison.ndnatural.com/Home.aspx
     
  24. BeyondFedUp

    BeyondFedUp Master

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    White Shogun wrote:
    I wonder why these guys just didn't shoot these dogs instead of electrocuting, drowning, and especially hanging them. It seems to me that instead of just wishing to dispose of the dogs they received some perverse enjoyment from torturing them. I can see them all standing around laughing and pointing, hooting and hollering while the dog thrashes in agony.

    F*** them all.

    Yep, that's my sentiments exactly. Vick and the guys who were and are involved in this criminality are vile criminals. They didn't just "make a MISTAKE". I'd love to hear someone say that garbage in person so I can shove it down their throat, preferably in front of a group of peers. and preferably better yet, in front of blacks. I'd tell them how the cow ate the cabbage. The media will paint a guy like John Rocker as the most evil person in sports for just "speaking" something on his heart. But this scumbucket is getting treatment from (mostly)blacks and idiots, like "i wish him the best...he made a mistake... I'd love to see him play again..."etc. These people and their ilk are truely insane for defending a thug just because he is of their own race.

    "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.."

    ~ George Orwell
     
  25. Thrashen

    Thrashen Hall of Famer

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    "That Jason Whitlock has written a LOT of articles that make a ton of sense this past year"

    This is too true. Jason Whitlock, unlike the cornucopia of young, black, sportswriters that were handed jobs in America, is actually HONEST. American blacks can call this man a "race-traitor" all they want....but they're only angry with the things he writes because they are all truths (and the truth hurts). I've seen Whitlock on ESPN many times, each of which he seems to be completely against the "thug" and "hip-hop" culture in which most of professional sports seem to adamantly pander to. His position on the matter is that the so-called "men" who live this foolishly empty lifestyle should grow the hell up already. I like Jason Whitlock, and think he should be embraced as an ally to CF.us
     

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