No love for Valuev!

[white is right]

Big farce
Comparing massive Valuev to Marciano is a joke



Nikolay Valuev has a questionable 44-0 record.






NEW YORK -- The circus was in town Wednesday, when WBA heavyweight champion Nikolay Valuev made the first stop of his whirlwind U.S. tour inside a tiny room in the Russian Firebird Restaurant in midtown Manhattan. Small by design, perhaps; the size of the room only made the giant Russian look that much bigger. Accompanying Valuev (besides a hoard of Russian media) were the usual theatrics that come with any Don King promotion, including a WWE-esque smoke entrance and a made-to-scale replica of the Empire State Building.

For most of the assembled masses, it was their first look (and one they waited an extra hour for while King apparently had Valuev brokering peace deals at the United Nations) at the 7-foot-2, 335-pound Valuev, who at age 33 has strung together a sterling 44-0 record by knocking out relative unknowns and robbing legitimate fighters.

Am I being too harsh?

John Ruiz doesn't think so. It was Ruiz who first put Valuev on the boxing map when he agreed to face him in Germany last December for his WBA title. For 12 rounds the methodical Ruiz -- giving away 11 inches and nearly 100 pounds -- battered the Russian only to have the decision taken away from him by a trio of judges, any one of whom would make Henry Hill look like an honest man. Afterward the crowd of 10,000, which had been pro-Valuev before the fight, roundly booed the new champion, voicing their disgust for, as Ruiz put it, "their own guy." Later, Valuev's exiled former promoter would say that he believed the WBA had been blinded by Valuev's massive physique and that, in his opinion, "Valuev lost every round of that fight."

King doesn't think so, but then again, King thinks he's promoting the next Rocky Marciano. While being careful not to compare the two directly, King made several references Wednesday to Valuev's approach of Marciano's 49-fight winning streak.

But Valuev's inflated win total has come against a host of has-beens headlined by Ruiz (who had unofficially retired before the Valuev fight, only to return when the WBA stripped James Toney of the belt after he tested positive for steroids) and Larry Donald. In his last fight Valuev battered journeyman Owen Beck, who afterward claimed to be relieved that he "didn't go home in an ambulance." I don't think Jersey Joe Wolcott ever said anything like that. After getting his first look at Valuev, Clifford Etienne (remember him?), who Valuev knocked out in 2004, reportedly got drunk and booked a flight home before being talked into staying by his manager.

Marciano, on the other hand, was a beast, a power-punching heavyweight with a flair for the dramatic. Besides Wolcott (whom Marciano knocked out in 1952 with what is widely believed to be the hardest punch ever thrown in boxing), the Brockton Blockbuster defeated superior talents Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore. Louis, Charles and Moore -- slightly more formidable than Ruiz, Donald and Beck.


At Wednesday's press conference a reporter had the audacity to question Valuev's previous competition, a query that prompted this exchange.

"He beat Ruiz," said a perplexed King.

"Did he?" replied the reporter.

"Do you know anything about who I have fought?" asked Valuev.

"Not enough," the reporter replied.

"Then why are you questioning who I have fought?" he answered.

Because, Nikolay, when your chosen handlers are evoking Marciano's name, your record not only should be questioned, it should be closely scrutinized. Marciano earned his accolades by dominating a heavyweight division when it was actually worth dominating. Should Valuev top Marciano's total, it would be the biggest sports injustice since Barry Bonds' home run record.

When I went to California to observe Hasim Rahman train, I asked Rahman, then the WBC champion, who else in the division he was interested in fighting. "[Wladimir] Klitschko," he said matter-of-factly. What about Valuev? "Not interested," he replied. "Klitschko is the only other real champion."

By all counts, Valuev is a wonderful, educated guy who can deliver platitudes with the best of them. Perhaps it's a touch of cynicism creeping in after years of witnessing heavyweights fail to live up to expectations. Whatever the reason, I believe fans should think twice before hitching their wagons to another heavyweight, no matter how big he is. If you want to see the circus, call Barnum and Bailey; if you want good boxing, I suggest you find another division... Well this reporter has obviously watched alot of his fights, like all of zero..........

I guess the hackneyed cliques will continue.....

 

[JD074]

I haven't seen enough of Valuev to really say how good he is. All I've seen is Youtube videos of him beating down Beck and Tisdale. I will say that he didn't start boxing until he was 20! He seems to be improving late in his career.

What do you guys think of the Ruiz fight? Did he really lose every single round??

Rahman saying that Wlad is the only other real HW champ is hilarious. Oops Rahman, it looks like YOU are not a real champion anymore! And you probably don't even know who Liakhovich is. How do you think you would've fared against Brewster, hmm?

 

[White Shogun]

For all the black afflete nuthuggers we've had on the board recently, I'll say this - Brewster would have KO'd Rahman, too, and of all the black heavyweights that have uh, 'graced' the division in the past few years, Brewster seems like a decent enough guy. He's much more preferable than Toney, Rahman, Peter, et al.

Like JD said, I haven't seen enough of Valuev's fights to have an opinion of how good a fighter he is. It is interesting to read what the article had to say though, that Beck was glad he didn't go home in an ambulance, and Etienne did not want to fight him in the first place.

As for Johnny 'Huggy Bear' Ruiz, he is the last guy who should be complaining about being ripped off by the judges. And if the refs called his fights the way they have Wlad's and Maskaev's, Ruiz would have been disqualifed in practically every fight he's been in anyway.

 

[white is right]

I have seen most of Valuev's recent fights and it's hard to tell how good he is. He is a real fighter not a manufactured contender. The two fights everyone complains about were real close fights on his turf so he got the benefit of the doubt. I thought he beat Donald but Ruiz out worked him late to eke it out. But does anybody care if Ruiz is forced to work in gay porn movies now? I dont.....

 

[JD074]

Here's a "contrarian" viewpoint about Valuev:

Since signing up with Sauerland, Valuev has been put in against tougher competition than any other contender on his way to a title shot. To give you an idea of how good Valuev's competition actually was I will compare the records of his competition and that of top contenders Sam Peter and Calvin Brock. The record of Valuev's last six opponents before he received his title shot was 157-9-5 (109), compared to 137-21-5 (77) for the six men Peter fought before he received his first title shot and 162-40-11 (89) for Brock's last six. While numbers cannot tell you everything about a fighter, these particular numbers do suggest that Valuev's recent competition has been vastly underrated and the way he has easily defeated most of these men should tell us that Valuev has a fighter is also vastly underrated.

He also mentions how much Valuev has improved recently.

Nikolai Valuev: The Most Underrated Man in Boxing
Edited by: JD074

 

[White Shogun]

JD,
I haven't seen the Valuev-Ruiz fight, but most say Ruiz won the fight and was robbed in the decision. Have you seen it, and do you think that fight tells us more than perhaps the records of their previous six opponents? Although Ruiz's style is difficult, especially when you have a referree who will not chasten Ruiz for his incessant holding.

 

[JD074]

I didn't see the fight unfortunately; almost everyone says that it was a close fight, with some giving the fight to Valuev and some to Ruiz. That's why it was so surprising that someone said that Ruiz won every round.

As for his previous six opponents compared to Brock and Peter, I don't know that either. We all know that win-loss records in boxing can be very deceiving; 157-9-5 looks great on paper, but so did the undefeated records of Lacy and Peter.

Perhaps the better point is not that Valuev's competition was underrated, but that Peter and Brock shouldn't have been (prematurely) anointed the "future of the division" given opposition that was, in all probability, even weaker than what Valuev faced.And given that underestimating a fighter's opposition is a great way to underestimate him, the fact that people want to rip his opposition, but not that of Brock and Peter, is pretty telling.

It's all academic at this point. Only time will tell. But I like him and it was nice to read an article that didn't totally rip the guy.
Edited by: JD074

 

[White Shogun]

I agree, JD, I like him, too. He comports himself well, as do all of our white champions, and seems very likeable. I hope he retains his belt for sometime.

I know that the four will eventually have to fight one another to unite the belts, or one may lose to a black fighter sooner or (let's hope) much later, but for right now its a great time to be a white boxing fan.

 

[white is right]

Another Valuev story, and another stereotype...
Boxing: Valuev can tame the beast that lurks within
By Ron Lewis
Our correspondent on the scariest man in the ring, who wants to show his softer side
THERE is never any difficulty spotting Nikolay Valuev when he is in the room, but only now is he starting to take some satisfaction from being stared at.

At 7ft and 23½st, Valuev is used to being seen as a monster. But that was old Valuev. The new, smiling version is a warm, cuddly person who loves nothing more than reading a good book and who wooed his wife with poetry.

The softening-up of Valuev has begun; after all, there is only limited gain to be made from being the tallest and heaviest world heavyweight champion in history if everyone hates you. Valuev, too, has grown tired of playing the bad guy.

Mike Tyson made a fortune from his menacing persona and big punch. Valuev, though, has struggled to get beyond the image of just being a big bully.

"Crowds would always boo him," Wilfried Sauerland, his German promoter who converted him from freak show to world champion, said. "They feel sorry for the other guy."

Here in Chicago on Saturday, Valuev, 33, will defend his WBA heavyweight title against Monte Barrett, of the United States, and he has been on a charm offensive with Don King across the US. Not that easy for someone who speaks only a few words of English.

Gone, at Valuev's request, is his long-time nickname, "The Beast from the East", and in its place is the far less catchy "Russian Giant". The scowls have been replaced by smiles and gone, too, are the scruffy XXXXL tracksuits. These days he is more than likely to be dressed in a smart suit, which, like all his clothes, is tailor-made.

With a pronounced eyebrow ridge and a mass of body hair, Valuev looks frightening. In his hands, soft-drink cans look fun-sized and there cannot be many sportsmen with a 48in waist.

One of the most remarkable facts about Valuev is that both his parents are 5ft 5in. His grandmother tells a story of an Asiatic tribe called the Tartars, who once conquered Russia and spread terror across Eastern Europe. Her grandfather, she told Valuev, was "a giant man called Vasily", whom she claimed was a direct descendant of this warrior race.

At the age of 12, Valuev was 11in taller than his parents. At 13, he was whisked off to a boarding school in his home city of St Petersburg (called Leningrad at the time) that specialised in sports. Unsurprisingly, he took up basketball. He also thrived at the discus. It was not until he was 20 that he tried his hand at boxing.

Taking up a sport so late, though, Valuev needed time to develop his skills â€â€￾ but he was not given it. "Almost every boxer in the world first learns boxing as a boy," he said. "For me, everything was new."

After a handful of amateur bouts, Valuev was hawked around the globe as a freak attraction, knocking over low-grade opponents for little money. Twice he boxed in Britain, twice he boxed at the Taj Mahal, Donald Trump's gaudy resort in Atlantic City. To show how life has changed, last month, Valuev was the guest of Trump in New York.

In the past three years, Valuev has worked hard and improved beyond recognition. He hopes to show this week that he can no longer be written off as a freak show.

"It means a lot for me to be fighting in America," Valuev said. "This is a very important fight for me. I want to win over the hearts of the American people and I know the best way to do this is with a strong performance on Saturday night."

Yet for all the sharp suits and big smiles, Valuev is probably not the sort of person you would want to bump into down a dark alley â€â€￾ or deep in the woods for that matter.

In January, about a month after Valuev had won the title from John Ruiz, a writer was sent from a British tabloid newspaper to interview him. He was invited to join Valuev doing his favourite hobby â€â€￾ hunting. Out they went to the snow-covered forests around Berlin with a group of businessmen. The result was a bloodbath and the article was put on the backburner. There is still a lot of the Beast in the Russian Giant.

 

[White Shogun]

Hey wir
thanks for posting the article. I didn't find it too bad and thought most of the stereotypes weren't about whites per se but about Valuev's size, which one has to admit is not average.

 

[White_Savage]

A word about Asiatic ancestors-Valuev's size, his rather lanky frame for his size, his body hair, and the "menacing brow ridge" are all atypical of Asians and most commonly found in Whites.

" January, about a month after Valuev had won the title from John Ruiz, a writer was sent from a British tabloid newspaper to interview him. He was invited to join Valuev doing his favourite hobby â€â€￾ hunting. Out they went to the snow-covered forests around Berlin with a group of businessmen. The result was a bloodbath and the article was put on the backburner. There is still a lot of the Beast in the Russian Giant. "

What an assinine remark. The liberal douche sportswriter doesn't realize where his steak comes from, I guess.

 

[JD074]

Yeah, his grandmother talking about some ancient "Asiatic" ancestry reminds me a bit of white Americans talking about being "part-Cherokee"- or for that matter, being related to Jesse James!

And even if he does have an Asian ancestor, it's in the very, very, very distant past. His grandmother was talking about her grandfather, who was supposedly a "direct descendant" of the Asiatic tribe. So not even his great-great-grandfather (is that right?) was 100% Asian! Needless to say, Valuev is white.

Edited by: JD074

 

[white is right]

If anybody wants to watch the fight its being streamed on sportal.com .

 

[Hockaday]

" January, about a month after Valuev had won the title from John Ruiz, a writer was sent from a British tabloid newspaper to interview him. He was invited to join Valuev doing his favourite hobby â€â€￾ hunting. Out they went to the snow-covered forests around Berlin with a group of businessmen. The result was a bloodbath and the article was put on the backburner. There is still a lot of the Beast in the Russian Giant. "

What an assinine remark. The liberal douche sportswriter doesn't realize where his steak comes
from, I guess.[/QUOTE]

Every now and then I'll mention to someone that I grew up hunting and still hunt and they'll get a look on their face. I say, oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know you were a vegetarian. They'll say, oh, I'm not a vegetarian. Then I give them a look.

If Valuev came face to face with a bear, I wonder what the bear would be thinking.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Thanks for the sportal link, white is right. That will be the only way I get to see the fight. I am looking forward to this.

 

[Guest]

If anybody wants to watch the fight its being streamed on sportal.com .

Much appreciated. I don't get HBO so this is my chance to see Valuev live for the first time.

 

[Hockaday]

I had a social commitment tonight but it got cancelled.

Now I don't have to be there wishing I was home watching the fight. I'm looking forward to evaluating Valuev. He could be anything from the second coming of Primo Carnera to a decent fighter.

If boxing doesn't work out for him I'm sure he can find plenty of work in wrestling and acting.

 

[White Shogun]

If boxing doesn't work out for him I'm sure he can find plenty of work in wrestling and acting.

Remember the guy with the mouthful of metal teeth, "Jaws," who played in the James Bond movies? I'd say Valuev could play that kind of roll in any movie, definitely.

He'd also make a great bodyguard figure for mobsters or other super-criminals.

The great thing is he already has some talent in boxing, so it wouldn't be like they had to train him for fight scenes.

But that's putting the cart before the horse. I hope he KO's 'Two Guns' and goes on to have a long and successful career as a heavyweight boxing champion. He can worry about movie roles after he retires.

 

[Guest]

The sportal.com link only works in the UK.

If you want to watch the fights go to www.mma-tv.net and sign up. Once you've done that click on video streams. You need to have winamp installed and the commentary is in German.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Thanks for the info Kaiser! I am working on it right now.

 

[hedgehog]

I got it streaming in, this is great. I am watching the fight without having to pay HBO and Bryant Gumbel. What time is the main fight?

 

[Guest]

Adamek just beat Briggs by majority decision. That was an unbelievable fight.

 

[hedgehog]

Valuev looks a bit on the flabby side,(more then ussual)

 

[hedgehog]

barret goes down

 

[hedgehog]

Barrett back up and fighting, Valuev slow, but so far is too powerfull for Barrett