HBO's Great Black Hopes

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by Charles Martel, Apr 17, 2011.

  1. werewolf

    werewolf Hall of Famer

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    Mills Lane was the best referee. Joe Cortez is crooked. I saw exactly what he was when I saw him in the Hatton-Mayweather fight. Now he's just opened up a referee school. That would be like Al Capone opening up a school for beer distributors.
     
  2. werewolf

    werewolf Hall of Famer

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  3. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    His incompetence that seemed to start around 2000 could look like corruption too. I recall Cortez missing an obvious belt shot in Holyfield vs Ruiz II and he allowed Ruiz to roll around and claim a foul when he should have been counted out. Of course Ruiz is a fellow Boricua so that could have been corruption too...:scared:
     
  4. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    It looks like Broner bit a security guard that tried to break up a fight between Broner and another man. Many people tend to forget that boxers that are short and in lower weight classes can't beat up large men in a street fight type situation. I recall Pernell Whitaker getting ko'd by a police officer at traffic stop. As for biting didn't that stop after grade 3?:icon_tongue::thumbdown:http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/report-broner-allegedly-bit-security-guard-179116
     
  5. Soccer&track

    Soccer&track Guru

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    Thats what drives me nuts about boxings fascination with these tiny little weight classes like the 122lb weight class for example..HBO and showtime can say how great all these black, Asian and Mexican champions are but the simple reality is that any heavyweight would just simply walk these guys down then pummel them in the corner till they dropped. It can be argued that the Klitschkos are the two best boxers in the world because they are champions at the largest weight class. I dont care if Broner thinks he's a champ because any average heavyweight...or cruiser weight or light heavyweight for that matter...could pummel him. Heavyweight should get the most coverage going down the line to cruiser and light heavy but we all know that the networks wouldnt dare do that because it would be 75% European whites! Of course we all know their argument then would be that all the US prospects play football yada yada yada...and just FYI - I consider myself to be average size (5-10, 170lbs) and I could never get down to 140-150lbs for a fight. I'd look like I have AIDS!
     
  6. werewolf

    werewolf Hall of Famer

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    I'm not particularly interested in the little shrimps. I mostly follow the heavyweights.

    As for Broner, gee, what a shock. Who would ever have thought that a nice intelligent well spoken "African-American" (that's not what he calls himself) young gentleman like that would be assaulting people and biting people and getting in trouble with the law. I am shocked.
     
  7. Charles Martel

    Charles Martel Hall of Famer

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    Joe Cortez has always been shady. Back in 1981, he was one of the people responsible for one of the worst robberies in the history of boxing, when Gerrie Coetzee dominated in his fight against Renaldo Snipes, but somehow lost a split decision.

    http://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:715
     
  8. Gibbon

    Gibbon Guru

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    Still talking about Tyson?

    I was at the gym yesterday and two whites and a black were having a conversation about Tyson. The upshot was essentially about how badass Tyson was. One of the white guys was relating a story about how some older man knocked Tyson out when he was basically a kid and that was one of the things that led him into fighting. He took great pleasure in the telling and I sensed it was his way of ingratiating himself with the black (whom, by the way, didn't seem like a particularly odious type). I think that white had seen a documentary or something.

    Nevertheless, I sat there astonished that these three were still singing praises of Mike Tyson who hasn't been in a meaningful fight in a decade and hasn't been an elite caliber boxer for well over a score of years. I wondered if they even knew who the many times more amazing Klitschko brothers even were. I guessed the white who was relating the tale did as he seemed to have some knowledge of boxing (though struck me more as an MMA type). The other white seemed less attuned. I guessed that it was most likely that the black was the most aware of the Klitschkos (and, ironically, the one most likely to believe their success legitimate and meaningful).

    Meanwhile the Klitschkos as well as the white domination of the HW Division sat, hulking nearby. The Elephant in The Room.
     
  9. BoxingSpecialist2

    BoxingSpecialist2 Mentor

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    In the USA, American networks such as Showtime and HBO generally ignore and/or simply refuse to broadcast talented white boxers based in Europe. In the 1990's, something like 60% of championships in boxing would be held by American fighters, today that number would be down to only about 25% of championships being held by Americans. Boxing as a sport is simply gravitating away from American Negroes. Amateur boxing tournaments going on today also indicate that the sport is becoming further European and Asian dominated. Boxing as a sport has no future in USA.

    I once made an estimate a few years back, that because Americans are getting worse and worse at this sport, there would be a day when HBO Boxing dies, and the network stops showing boxing. I feel that day is coming sooner rather than later (HBO has recently had some friction in past months and lost a lot of market share). Boxing has no future in the USA and the fighters it is producing these days are simply not very good because competition levels have increased. What will HBO do when there are no American Negro champions? Who will they show then? Today there's what only 7 or 8 American Negro champs (Broner, Ward, Mayweather, Hopkins, Trout, Smith, Bradley, Alexander) out of a possible 68 (17 weight classes, 4 titles per weight). Give it another 10 years and there will only be 2 or 3. Americans have lost all ground in this sport and that is only going to keep accelerating. 15 years ago, there would have been 20 or so American Negro champs.

    HBO did show early parts of Klitschko's career (such as his knockouts over Negroes Byrd, Brock, and McCline), but in roughly 2008 or so, HBO began a censorship on the white dominated heavyweight division. This censorship of talented white athletes (not just the Klitschko's but many talented white fighters such as Kessler, Froch, Huck, Povetkin, Bute have been largely ignored by American networks) is in many ways parallel to American news media's censorship on black-on-white crime. Both forms of censorship by American media have a white self hating, black worshipping bias.

    That being said, I think most Americans who follow sports are aware that Klitschko's run the heavyweight division in spite of this censorship. The good news, though, is that in Europe, the Klitschkos are mega stars and have sold out 60,000+ seat arenas. Klitschko's win over Haye had 60,000+ people in attendance and it has been said that it is the most watched boxing match of alltime. No boxer in the USA comes anywhere close to that level of stardom. The Klitschko's are well known by pretty much everyone in Europe, and truthfully, their fights are bigger than any in the USA. So, while the Klitschko's have been largely censored in USA, on the contrary, in many parts of Europe they are huge celebrities.

    Americans talking about Tyson are dreaming about past times, quite pathetic actually. Maybe they wish they had a time machine to go back to the 1980's when the sport was just an American sport. Maybe you should tell them to research "time travel". lol...
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  10. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    HBO talks from both sides of their mouth. Their reasons for stopping the following of the K brothers were they were boring and too dominant. Yet ten years earlier they showed every Roy Jones Jr. mismatch against various civil servants at 175 pounds. They also have shown recent fights where it looked like their was a glimmer of hope of the Klitschko's losing. Thank god ESPN and now Epix are picking up these broadcasts, but to the DWF if HBO or to a lesser extent Showtime doesn't pick up boxing matches then the fight isn't a major event....
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  11. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    Tonight is a great match up of 2 elite fighters. Nonito Donaire vs Guerillmo Rigoueax(sp). Nonito top 10 PFP fighter. Rigoueax and great boxer/fighter, but as always an HBO hyped black hope in the lighter weights. The Vegas favorite is Nonito. He has the size, speed and crushing power. To be honest HBO has been hyping him as well and with good reason. He kicks ass. Should be a great fight with these 2 elite and skilled fighters.
     
  12. Charles Martel

    Charles Martel Hall of Famer

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    I'm rooting for Donaire because if Rigondeaux wins, it will just support the caste system and the false racist belief in the superior athleticism of negroes.
     
  13. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    Of course, its always the reason why I watch these fights anytime a marquee fight involves a non negro vs negro.
     
  14. BoxingSpecialist2

    BoxingSpecialist2 Mentor

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    Yes I agree, tonight's matchup between Rigondeaux and Donaire is a great fight, even though neither fighter is white. Both guys are top notch, quality boxers, there is no denying that and we should give credit where its due.

    It will be an interesting fight! For me it represents AMATEUR VS PRO. Rigondeaux is a guy who won 2 Gold Medals in the Olympics and had 300+ amateur fights. Donaire only started boxing in his late teens and had 68 amateur fights. So although Donaire is more experienced in the pro's thats a bit misleading, because Rigondeaux has had hundreds and hundreds of fights more as an amateur. Rigondeaux is by far the more experienced boxer.

    The betting favourite is Donaire. I used to gamble a bit here and there on boxing and this is a fight I would probably not feel comfortable betting on, cause I'm not sure what will happen. If I did bet, I'd probably but a small amount on Rigondeaux just because youre getting a return that's worth it for a fight that I see as being essentially 50-50 (havent checked the lines, but based on discussion at Boxrec, Rigo has got to be going at +200 or even +250/300).

    Over at BoxRec.com, they have "PTBF" and like 90%+ of users are picking Donaire to win. I'm not sure about that. This is a close fight and I'd call it essentially a 50/50 fight. If I had to pick a winner... Donaire... he's more established in the pro's. But Rigo could definitely pull it out.
     
  15. BoxingSpecialist2

    BoxingSpecialist2 Mentor

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    Agreed! I'm hoping Donaire pulls it out!
     
  16. Charles Martel

    Charles Martel Hall of Famer

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  17. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    That was a dreadful performance by Donaire. He looked sloppy and under conditioned. There were rumors of lack of training and over confidence. The only positive on his part was dropping Rigo late, but could not sieze or follow up on the moment. I had him winning only 2 rounds. Then in the last rd, he gets hit in the eye and rather going for the KO, he puts his hand over his eye and rides out the fight. Pathetic.

    After the decision, he gave several excuses. His reputation will take a hit. What a dissappointment. Rigo is an excellent defensive fighter. Now HBO will take the rains and hype an black fighter.
     
  18. BoxingSpecialist2

    BoxingSpecialist2 Mentor

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    I actually thought the fight was pretty close. My card would have been roughly 115-112 Rigondeaux. So for the most part I agree with the judges' cards. Rigondeaux won it, no doubt. But I saw Nonito winning anywhere from 2 to 5 rounds in the fight. A lot of the rounds were close with not a lot of landed punches by either guy. There were a couple of rounds from about 6-9, where Rigo basically ran the whole round, sometimes landing only like 1 punch a round. Donaire was also landing a bit and quite frankly I feel Rigo dropped a lot of the middle rounds.

    We need to remember that what wins rounds is landed punches. Defense doesn't score points. Whoever does more damage in a round should be the round's winner. You don't win rounds by making someone miss punches, or running around the ring. Technically, there are 4 criteria to judge a round on, but almost all judges will tell you 99% of who wins a round is determined by the amount of damage inflicted (or cumulative landed punches). So, in terms of landed punches, this was a close fight. I personally strongly disagree with Harold Lederman's card, 118-109 for Rigondeaux (only giving Donaire one round).

    As a further note, Ive always felt that Donaire was overrated and hyped up by HBO into something he's not. RING Magazine had Donaire as high as #3 P4P in the world (while Wlad Klitschko a guy with a stronger AM background, and a 3 or 4 time as long reign as champion was only at #6 or so). Clearly he was overhyped by HBO. RING Magazine has such a pro American bias and because Donaire fights all his fights in US and fights on American networks he has clearly been overrated relative to European and international fighters.

    As I said before the fight, I considered it a 50-50 fight, but if I was gambling I'd put money on Rigo because of the way odds were structured. My advice turned out to be solid and you would have made a lot of money following my betting advice.

    Anyways, great effort from both guys! Decent fight!

    For Rigondeaux, this guy won't make any fans with his style though. He will never be a star type fighter. There isn't a lot of big names in his weightclass and with his boring (but effective) style, no one is gonna pay to watch him fight. For Donaire, he showed a lot of heart and spirit even though he lost!
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2013
  19. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    I thought the turning point of the fight was in the first round when Donaire tasted the Cuban's power and became a boxer(not really his style). I thought the scoring was difficult but after the knockdown Donaire either hit the wall or when back into his defensive shell and the 12th round foul sealed it for the Cuban. Also this fight might be a sign that Donaire has hit his physical limit in terms of moving up as in previous fights he was blowing guys away with his power. The Cuban who had a stronger look to him took his shots well aside from the 10th round.
     
  20. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    Two former HBO hopes will be featured on Showtime Saturday.

    1st there is Kid cocoa Quillian fighting another black latin fighter named Guerrero. Should be interesting. Pulling for the lower hyped affelete to pull the upset.

    The main event will feature "sorta White" latin fighter Danny Garcia, who has blue eyes, who is skilled and good against somewhat faded, but still dangerous Zab Judua for the 1st four rds. Another interesting fight. Both of these fighters hate each other, mainly due to Danny's obnoxious father who is talking sh*t about Zab and who loves stealing his son's limelight.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2013
  21. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    Fraudley Harrison was stopped in about a minute by Deontay Wilder. One good shot to the temple and Harrison froze like a deer in the headlights. Tough John Riggins would be pleased with his prospect Wilder.......:lol:
     
  22. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    Wilder also had a song/poem for Tyson Fury and he sounded like the cats from the alleys in the old Warner Brother cartoons.....:scared:
     
  23. werewolf

    werewolf Hall of Famer

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    So then here is what happened in the Wilder fight (which I didn't see):


    Audley Harrison was fighting two men in the ring


    By Mark Calooke: No one expected Audley Harrison to win tonight. The fight was a mismatch and a farce. But Audley didn’t deserve the injustice he received. Harrison should have retired long ago and nothing has changed there. fans know what to expect from Harrison and it is nothing good.

    After just one minute of the first round, Wilder landed a cracking right hand. Harrison was hurt but was smart enough to take a knee. Wilder then lunged in with several wild and sloppy hooks. It wasn’t his fault because he was over excited. But nowhere in boxing does it say that it is legal to hit someone whilst they are on the floor. The ref saw Harrison take a knee and should have given him a standing 8 count. Instead he let Wilder hit Harrison several times.
    Let’s face facts, Wilder was going to win. He has been protected to the point where Audley Harrison was classed as a step up for him. he was going to win and it wouldn’t have taken long. after the first right hand which resulted in Audley doing the right thing and going down, he was okay. Heart yes, but he could have continued. After the MMA beating he wasn’t okay.

    In some way it could play out as a blessing. The right man won. The more talented man won. Wilder may now go on to take genuine challenges. Harrison knows he hasn’t got it, or does he? That’s the problem. The truth is that the rules were broken and he will now play on it. This result was a embarrassment to boxing and will now give Harrison reason to fight on.
    The undermining of the rules wasn’t the only tragedy. Wilder went unmentioned after. The commentators put emphasis on Harrison. Time and time again they have said how bad Audley is and they didn’t hold back this time. but what about Wilder? He trained for it and done the job he was paid to do. I don’t even class his ground and pound as naughty. He was pumped up and trying to crowd please. It’s the ref who is responsible for enforcing rules.



    http://www.boxingnews24.com/2013/04/audley-harrison-was-fighting-two-men-in-the-ring/




    "I don’t even class his ground and pound as naughty."


    Say what? Sounds to me like Wilder should have been disqualified.
     
  24. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    Adonis "Superman" Stevenson after koing the overrated Chad Dawson was getting the HBO superstar push. While looking devastating in the win he has a terrible loss to a journeyman club fighter early in his career.
     
  25. BoxingSpecialist2

    BoxingSpecialist2 Mentor

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    You know, I remember a time not too long ago, let's say 2007-2010, when many American boxing fans and boxing "experts" were saying Chad Dawson was a top 3 pound for pound fighter. Many American boxing fans thought that Chad Dawson was the best American boxer other than Mayweather Jr. In fact, some people, a minority of people, even felt Dawson was the number 1 pound for pound fighter in the world.

    I'm not even joking about that. Many American boxing fans and writers literally were saying he was a top 3 pound for pound fighter (RING magazine, if my memory is correct, also had him as #3 or #4 pound for pound), and had Dawson rated above guys like Klitschko Brothers, Kessler, Froch, Abraham, etc. Today, all of those guys are still around, and much more successful than Dawson.

    Fast forward to 2013, Dawson has suffered back to back KO losses, and we can see how totally wrong these biased, wigger Americans were. Rating Dawson top 3 pound for pound is a god damn joke and always was. Dawson's recent form and suffering back to back losses (including being KO'd in one round by an unknown fighter) speaks volumes about how inappropriately, insanely, and utterly incorrectly American sports media and fans overrate their own Negro athletes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2013

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