Christophe Lemaitre "White Lightning" 9.92 and 19.80!

Discussion in 'Track & Field' started by white lightning, Jul 26, 2008.

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  1. dwid

    dwid Hall of Famer

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    I understand what you are saying but strength = strength. Its muscle that doesn't automatically = strength. Bodybuilders that can't lift that much, not functional muscles, just looks bigger. He should be training for strength. Look at the guys from strongman competitions, they the body builder look but are strong, now of course he doesn't need that much strength.
     
  2. RCSMAN

    RCSMAN Mentor

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    bad traduction, sorry !

    STRONGER = BETTER

    thank you for your advice about christophe's training :hail:
     
  3. Bk21

    Bk21 Guru

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    If you want to understand why Vicaut defeated Lemaitre look at this video:

    http://www.francetvsport.fr/stade-2-numero-4-du-14072013-163969


    even if you don't understand french you can see the professionalism in which Vicaut trains compared to what Lemaitre does.. I'm not saying that Lemaitre have to go to the US, but he needs to go at least to Paris to get the same treatment that Vicaut has
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2013
  4. RCSMAN

    RCSMAN Mentor

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    c'est incroyable de critiquer le professionalisme de lemaitre sans savoir ce qu'il fait à l'entrainement. QUELLE MENTALITE !

    tu crois que l'on court 20,07 sur 200M sans avoir travaillé dur et de façon professionnelle ?

    Malheureusement beaucoup de personne ne savent pas ce qu'est le haut niveau pour dire de telles anneries !

    tu es français, regarde ladji doucoure qui est un talent phénoménal, il travail dur mais il n'a jamais retrouvé son niveau !

    c'est très dur d'atteindre le haut niveau, ensuite il faut ENORMEMENT de travail pour se maintenir au même niveau et parfois ça ne suffit même pas, donc il faut arrêter de dire que carraz est incompétent, trop vieux, que christophe ne s'entraine pas suffisament, etc, etc

    tous ces propos sont stupide, puérile.

    Regarde vicaut, ces 3 dernières semaines il ne faisait que des mauvaises courses et beaucoup de personnes sur certains forum commençaient à le critiquer et aujourd'hui tout le monde le trouve fantastique !

    vous avez fait pareil avec Christophe, ces bons chronos étaient le résultat de son dur travail, tout le monde trouvait très impressionnant qu'il court 20,16 sur 200M en 2010. Aujourd'hui il court sans vent 20,07 et vous dites tous sur ce forum, qu'il n'est pas professionnel, qu'il ne travaille pas. C'est pathétique et infantile !


    quand Christophe va résoudre ces problèmes technique de départ, il courra sous 9,90 et vous pourrez voir tout le travail fait depuis 2 ans avec Pierre Carraz.
     
  5. Bk21

    Bk21 Guru

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    RCSMAN you completely missed my point.. not mentionning that this is not a discussion between you and me, and since you speak a fair english, you can share your posts with the other contributors of this forum..
    I'm NOT saying that Christophe is not training professionally, and everybody here knows the improvements in his life routine he made (especially this year)
    I'm NOT saying that Carraz is incompetent / old, etc..

    what I was saying is that the technical instruments in Paris has nothing to do with what is in disposition of Lemaitre and Carraz in Aix les Bains - you seem fond of Carraz, fine, he can take him with him in his luggage
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2013
  6. RCSMAN

    RCSMAN Mentor

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    "the technical instruments in Paris has nothing to do with what is in disposition of Lemaitre and Carraz in Aix les Bains"

    How do you know that ? :suspicious:

    in reality, you don't know it, but you bla, bla, bla !

    you didn't say that when he run sub 10 !
     
  7. elispeedster

    elispeedster Mentor

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    Vicaut's trainers have more experience handling elite Athletes. Carraz never had an elite athlete until Christophe. He does not know what to do with Christophe's unlimited talent and is developing him wrong. He should of had Lemaitre training for strength and power early in his career. He is doing everything backwards. This is common training knowledge. Build strength, power and refine it with technique, then build the speed. Carraz started with technique and speed and disregarded, as he stated 'bodybuilding' as not necessary. He is not a Elite coach. That is the truth. 2+ years of regression is enough evidence. Look at youtube videos of Viacut training 2 years ago with weights. He is lifting good weight . He did it right. He slowly progressed as his strength levels, adapted to his speed. Lemaitre would be running 9.8's right now if he followed this program.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnw_CoM-2zs
     
  8. Keyser Soze

    Keyser Soze Guru

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    Agree 100%
     
  9. RCSMAN

    RCSMAN Mentor

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    You dont understand what pierre carraz said about "bodybuilding" !

    before this week end, vicaut didn't progress (time) the last 2 years.

    2011 Vicaut ran 10,12 (-1,8)
    2012 Vicaut ran 10,02 (lausanne very fast track)
    2013 Vicaut ran 10,02 (+0.6)

    regression ? LEMAITRE ?

    2011 9,95 (+1,0) = 10,00 basic time
    2012 10,09 (-0.7) = 10.05 with rain, cool temperature (14°C) WHAT REGRESSION !!!
    2013 10.07 (+0.6) = 10.10 but with dramatic start, it's not good for now


    Pierre Carraz is not an elite coach ? Carraz never had an elite athlete until Christophe ? yes like :

    Fernand Urtebise with Stephane diagana 47.32 (400Mh)
    Jacques Piacenta with Marie José Perec 48.25 (400M)
    François Pépin with Marc Raquil 44.79 (400M) bronze medalist world championship
    Pierre Jean Vazel with Olusoji Fasuba 9.85 (100M)
    Renaud Longuevre with ladji doucoure 12.97 (110Mh)
    Maurice Houvion with Jean Galfione 5.98 outdoor-6M indoor (pole vault)
    José Marajo with Mehdi Baala 3.28.98 (1500M)
    Damien Inocencio with Renaud Lavillénie 6.01 outdoor- 6.03 indoor (pole vault)
    Farouk Madaci with Mahiedine Mekhissi 8.00.09 (3000M steeple)
    Guy Ontanon with Muriel Hurtis 10.96 (100M)

    I continue or not ?

    GREAT ATHLETE IS RARE, Pierre Carraz's club is not a big structure, but he's very competent and the others french trainer respect him ! he's not a unknown in french athletics.

    You said he never had an elite athlete until Christophe, it's FALSE

    Pierre Alexis Pessonnaux, french relay, silver medalist in WC daegu, european champion in barcelona, 4th with the french relay in London (OG)

    Ruddy Zang semi finalist in London (OG) 100M women

    Manuel Reynaert (french relay OG Pekin)

    Gregory Gabella 2.30M (high jump)

    Pierre Carraz was an elite athlete (decathlon athlete).

    Christophe is not only trained by Pierre Carraz, there are 2 others trainers who work with Christophe !

    you talk about Pierre CARRAZ but you don't know what is the reality ! your affirmations (like a lot of people here) about Pierre Carraz are false !
     
  10. dwid

    dwid Hall of Famer

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    get off of Caraz's 8==D and let Christophe improve elsewhere, okay you made the point of no regression (not really, weak argument for his 10.10), but where is the progression? in how many years? Maybe he can't improve anymore, but at this point it wouldn't hurt to try and improve with another trainer
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2013
  11. RCSMAN

    RCSMAN Mentor

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    :pop2:
     
  12. freedom1

    freedom1 Mentor

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    bitter truth

    Vicaut paid his dues in the weight room, Lemaitre did not. End of story.
     
  13. RCSMAN

    RCSMAN Mentor

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    Harry Aikines-Aryeetey also and... NOTHING End of story !
     
  14. RCSMAN

    RCSMAN Mentor

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    Harry Aikines-Aryeetey also !
     
  15. elispeedster

    elispeedster Mentor

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    You always have an answer don't you? too bad you are always wrong!

    ..Comparing Apples to Oranges! Harry Aikines does not or never had the elite speed of Lemaitre! Take away his power and he wouldn't break 11 seconds. Harry runs on power not elite natural speed - BIG DIFFERENCE

    Now Imagine taking that same power and giving it to a guy who has natural sub 10 speed like Lemaitre...THAT IS THE POINT! POWER STRENGTH AND SPEED=COMPLETE ATHLETE!

    YOU HAVE NO BASIC CONCEPT OF ATHLETICS OR TRAINING OR ANYTHING FOR THE MATTER! YOU ARE AN OBNOXIOUS TROLL!
     
  16. freedom1

    freedom1 Mentor

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    power

    Christophe's top speed is from the track gods, one in who knows how many.

    But without the power he would have from squats, power cleans, plyometrics, etc., he's still too far behind against the elite people he competes against.

    In my opinion, he easily has 9.8 potential, and could be competing in both races (100 and 200).

    I hope it's not too late for him. It wouldn't seem that it would not be, but then, we've seen what happened to Pickering, Shirvo and Macro. They all went down rather suddenly at relatively young ages.
     
  17. RCSMAN

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    "YOU HAVE NO BASIC CONCEPT OF ATHLETICS OR TRAINING OR ANYTHING FOR THE MATTER! YOU ARE AN OBNOXIOUS TROLL!"

    YES SORRY !!! :hail:


    I don't agree with you and your friend, so I'm an obnoxious troll ? :mod:


    who said " Pierre Carraz is too old, not an elite trainer etc, etc, me or you and your friend ? you don't respect Pierre Carraz, your affirmations are not true, who is the troll ?

    your "philosophy" of athletics is anglo saxons, WEIGHT ROOM again and again

    My "philosophy" of athletics is the same that Pierre Carraz, Jacques Piacenta, a lot of french or not, trainer.
    WEIGHT ROOM OK sure, but not too much, gradually to avoid traumatizing the body (muscles) !

    For me, with your philosophy, Christophe would have been injuried and would never ran under 10 seconds. look BLAKE (injuried), POWELL (injuried often), GAY (injuried often), They are too much and too fast developed the muscle. Their bodies is traumatized

    After a muscular injury it is very hard to return to the same level.

    "French philosophy" is different and the result are not so bad.

    Christine Arron 10.73 (may be the real world record)

    Marie José Perec 48.25 (the real world record) PB 100M 10.96, 200M 21.99, 400M 48.25 !
    her body wasn't too developped, her body was very thin, and she ran very fast !
    and now Christophe !
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2013
  18. dwid

    dwid Hall of Famer

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    hit the weight room gradually to avoid trauma? wtf, are we scrawny jews. White men have the capacity to lift heavy for good deal of time. Its not just Anglo Saxon, its the ENTIRE WORLD besides France, which I don't think is french, I think its old school, like back in the day hey didn't want football players and baseball players to lift weights. People like Gay are injured often because they use PEDS which builds muscle quickly, the problem is the joints can't keep up at the same pace, which is why you have some imbalance and more prone to injury, now a natural athlete won't have this problem.
     
  19. RCSMAN

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    YOU SAID "wtf, are we scrawny jews" YOU'RE SO STUPID ! go to hell with your anti semitic !
     
  20. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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    Guys we can agree to disagree. It's getting a little heated in here. Let's try to get back to focusing on Christophe and the World Champs and try to stop the name calling from both sides. It will drive people away from this site. Thanks guys.


    As for Christophe. We can't even compare him to Shivington or Macrozonaris. They never went sub 10 or sub 20. I know they were good but Christophe he so far above them it's not even funny. He has run at least 7 sub 10's already and multiple sub 20's too. The problem is he is either stuck in neutral or even reverse. Is it his fault? The coach Carraz and his trainers fault? That is up for debate but there is no doubt that even Christope is doubting his abilitys at the moment. Such a shame. Hoping he can get things worked out before Moscow as he has a chance to medal if he can run like he did in 2011. Last year and this year have been average at best. He needs to perform better.

    Hoping he can get a low key meet in somewhere between now and Moscow to get a little confidence back. Again I say if he can ever get his start more consistant, he will be just fine. I wish he would widen his stance coming out of the blocks. His legs are too close together to get the proper push/power needed in my opinion. Keep tinkering the start & drive phase till it comes off smoothly and natural. The difference will be like night and day.

    Good luck to Lemaitre and his team to get things back on track quickly. We are his biggest fans and we just want him to live up to his incredible once in a lifetime genetic potential. That is why we come off a little harsh on the criticism. It is from loving the kid and wanting
    the best for him whether it's with Carazz or another coach.
     
  21. dwid

    dwid Hall of Famer

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    because on average jews are not that athletic, that is what makes you disregard my comments altogether? Seriously it makes you sound like a sissy when you say go cautious with the weights to avoid trauma, maybe I should have said that sounds like the plan of a 60 year old man getting in shape, with old joints etc. He can hit the weights hard, aim for strength, not just physique. Focus on the core.


    Like I said, my main point , guys like Gay and Blake get injured easily because with STEROIDS you build muscle extremely quick, but sometimes the joints have a hard time keeping up, leaving an imbalance which can leave you prone to some injuries. With LeMaitre, being natural, his joints and muscles will all develop evenly with no imbalance, with the right routine.
     
  22. Carolina Speed

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    Excellent post dwid. It's not often that I post on track & field thread, although I have been around and watched a few track & field coaches as well as speed and strength trainers.

    I have been lifting weights for over 35 years and to date I've never had one injury and I still bench over 400 pounds on a good day and have never taken steroids! With that being said, I remember guys who never touched weights all through high school and college, but started lifting because I guess they wanted to start looking and feeling better about themselves as well as to stay a little more fit. Many of these guys didn't want to do it the hard way, through work and dedication, no they wanted it fast, so they started taking steroids to get big fast. Many of them would participate in other sports such as, softball or flag football. I can't tell you how many of these guys sustained injuries, mostly blowing out a knee while running bases or pulling hamstrings while running. Others got torn pecs and shoulder injuries or rotator cuff injuries while lifting.

    My theory is that these guys wanted to get big too fast and resulted in injuries. Also, smaller, meaning skinnier guys tend to have smaller joints. I always looked a ones wrists. My wrists and joints fortunately are a little thicker than most, while other sometimes have smaller joints. When you build muscle too fast, it can put too much pressure on smaller joints and tendons causing them to weaken.

    On a side note concerning Lemaitre and his training: Many trainers do not train the ham strings in relation to the quads and glutes. A lot of track athletes squat, but pay no more attention to hamstrings. Generally, an average athlete quad to hamstring ratio is 4 or 5 to 1. A better ratio would be 2.5 to 1 and excellent ratio would be 1.5 to 1.

    I don't know how Lemaitre trains, but it looks like he needs more power and strength as freedom 1 said. Most of the 100 meter guys are built almost like bodybuilders and unless he's changed, I don't see that look with Lemaitre. Lemaitre obviously has a lot of God given speed, but it seems to get to the next level he needs to get stronger in the glutes, hamstrings(get his hamstrings caught up with his quads) and upper-body.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2013
  23. LoLy

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    100% agreed
     
  24. RCSMAN

    RCSMAN Mentor

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    REALLY ? and You read this statistics in Nazi magazine. what's stupid cliche !
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2013
  25. albinosprint

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    to get back on topic, I just got done watching the race. This defeat is terrible for Lemaiter mentally. the only good thing that might come from this is a wake up call. As of now I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that Vicaut peaked to early in the season and will be slightly slower at the champs. With all the big names getting caught doping, I was really looking forward to Lemaiter getting a medal in the 100. He can still pull it off if this hasn't destroyed him mentally.
     
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