Christophe Lemaitre "White Lightning" 9.92 and 19.80! -- Part Two

Discussion in 'Track & Field' started by Don Wassall, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. fernchris55

    fernchris55 Guru

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    The Carraz debate needs some illumination. Can we get the complete detailed training regimen of Lemaitre from 2009 till today. RCSMAN would be in the best position to procure such information and could even pose the request (if he needs to approach Team Carraz directly) as the desire to silence the anglophiles disrespect for French methods. If they ask who are these disrespectful Yankee and English dogs tell them they are the World wide followers of Christophe's success.
    If we can analyze Carraz's methods we may discover that young grasshopper may be the real culprit in not executing a reasonable modern program or the Master methods may be too lax or even (unlikely?)-taxing for Christophe's progress.
    The verdict to be voted upon among fellow members of this blog will end the Elispeedster-RCSMAN feud and the loser will admit that they were wrong. Give peace a chance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2016
  2. elispeedster

    elispeedster Mentor

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    I think 5 Years of regression and excuses by Lemaitre and Master Caraz is more than enough evidence. But hey, I open to discussion....
     
  3. elispeedster

    elispeedster Mentor

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    Caraz may be a Great man, and a good coach as you say....but someone with natural talent like Lemaitre does not need a Great Man or Good Coach....He needs a GREAT COACH! and its not Caraz
     
  4. elispeedster

    elispeedster Mentor

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    PS; I would happily admit I'm wrong if Lemaitre breaks his personal bests this year in the 100-200, I have said this every year.
     
  5. fernchris55

    fernchris55 Guru

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    Well that's not my quote (RCSMAN ?). I agree he needs a Great coach with good man optional though I'd go so far as to employ a mind-meld of drill master R. L. Ermey & coach Valentin Petrovski. Young grasshopper needs toughening up, not comfort. I suspect the trouble is more of the fledgling variety where a mamas boy refuses to leave the nest more so than a club level coach who won't let go of a World class talent.
    My proposal was a flippant remark as it's highly unlikely we'd get access to a detailed look at his training program. It's just that I get this gut feeling that this bundle of nerves called Christophe might be a difficult challenge for any coach. Could it possibly be that he's a stubborn student who won't push himself in training? How can he be so out of breath constantly. Sure he could go to another world renowned coach, but would he turn tail and run home to his safe space?
    I'm sure the truth is slightly more complicated than the press releases.
     
  6. mastermulti

    mastermulti Mentor

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    To tell the truth, this has been my suspicion of the situation for a long time.
    Good luck to him this season nevertheless - I have at times felt a bit disappointed with his progression but realise he doesn't owe me anything.
    He remains possibly the world's fastest club sprinter
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
  7. RCSMAN

    RCSMAN Mentor

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    Where is your stupid 5 years of regression ?

    Christophe ran : 100M

    2011 : SB 10.00 BASIC TIME
    2012 : SB 10.02 BASIC TIME
    2013 : SB 10.02 BASIC TIME
    --------------------- It's SAME time, no regression
    2014 : SB 10.11 BASIC TIME
    2015 : SB 10.11 BASIC TIME
    ------------ 2 bad years

    2011 : World championship finalist
    2012 : 3 titles in European Championship
    2013 : World championship finalist
    ----------------- where is your regression ?
    2014 : 3 medals in European championship (2 silver, 1 bronze) it's not bad
    2015 : semi final in world championship
    ____________ 2 years of regression


    that is REALITY and you lie Elispeedster... like always.
     
  8. elispeedster

    elispeedster Mentor

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    LMFAO! Basic Time means ****! Stop with the excuses - the wind, the altitude, the shoes, the angle, blah blah blah.....Lemaitre has been regressing for 5 years now. The only reason Lemaitre regresses is he continues to stick with Caraz because he and his family are close to him. If Lematire left Caraz and breaks all his bests, what do you think will happen? The media in France will blame Caraz and his reputation will be tarnished! This is the only reason why Leamitre continues with Caraz. It is sad and beyond idiotic! Its all about Caraz reputation not Lemaitre success. Unbelievable!
     
  9. fernchris55

    fernchris55 Guru

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    Amen........God speed young Christophe and may you run straight and true with hope in your heart and wings on your heels.
    (Inspired paraphrase from "Chariots of fire."
     
  10. RCSMAN

    RCSMAN Mentor

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    Basic time = time ajusted (Wind),
    If for you, TIME doesn't change with WIND, you confirm that you don't know track and field

    "he continues to stick with Caraz because he and his family are close to him"

    REALLY, How do you know that ? Like always you don't know it but you blah, blah, blah,

    "his reputation will be tarnished"

    WHAT A JOKE ! his reputation is good because his sprinter ran 9.92 and 19.80 and nobody can change this reality, it's impossible to run so fast with a bad trainer and bad training
    Pierre Carraz is a trainer for 50 years, nobody can tarnush his reputation, in all cases, not a person frustrated like you
     
  11. fernchris55

    fernchris55 Guru

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    Interesting article on the issue of "basic time adjustments" to address the issue of the value of taking times at face value.
    The gist of the article is that it's not cut and dry as there are other variables that factor into the equation and so it's a rough estimate. It's more useful than adjusting hand timing to FAT, but still is an approximation since the missing factors to take into account are not practical to obtain.
    It's a short enough read, so be sure not to bail out because you'll be sure to realize that even within a single race, all things are not equal.
    What I learned reinforces what I already believed which is there is no substitute for head to head competition in comparing athletes. Those guys who record their best times at home in domestic meets, then fizzle all the time in international meets make me question those personal bests in the "friendly confines of home."
    I see Lemaitre history, subjectively, as a great leap forward till 2011 then a slightly dipped stagnant plateau 2012-2013 followed by a small regression 2014-2015. The 200 meter performance at the 2011 World Championships was his greatest achievement. I believe this was due to his being in a blissful state of mind where he was an up-and-comer with little pressure having known nothing but success to that point. Since then he's had the weight of a nation on his slender shoulders with great expectations.
    I say it's best at this point to accept who he is, which is nothing less than one of the most successful White sprinters in the modern era and one of the fastest clean (most likely) sprinters ever.


    https://www.brunel.ac.uk/~spstnpl/Publications/WindAssistance(Linthorne).pdf
     
  12. jacknyc

    jacknyc Master

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    Christophe opens his season with a very slow 10.39 in Aix-Les-Bains.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2016
  13. CrazyFinn

    CrazyFinn Mentor

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    Don't worry, he'll get faster. The great Carraz has got it all under control. You don't think those 75lb power cleans and 25lb dumbbell lunges are going to help?

    You know nothing of sprint. :rolleyes:
     
  14. RCSMAN

    RCSMAN Mentor

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    lol

    he ran with his trousers because the weather was very very cold (4°C)

    weather : rain
    temperature : 4°C

    Christophe ran just for fun, not in 100%

    His real first race is 8th of february
     
  15. elispeedster

    elispeedster Mentor

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    Of course! the trousers, the cold....yadda yadda yadda...but dont worry, It will come, you shall see!
     
  16. elispeedster

    elispeedster Mentor

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    In all fairness, he is up to 85 pounds in the clean and 30 pounds in lunges, he is making progress under the Master Sprint Coach...it will come, you shall see! :)
     
  17. jacknyc

    jacknyc Master

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    I don't understand . . . .
    This is an Olympic year. What's the point of running for fun?!
    If he is going to run, he should give it a serious effort, or just not run.
     
  18. jacknyc

    jacknyc Master

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    . . . and if it's that cold in France, then he should be training somewhere else, where it's warm and sunny.
    Really, it's hard to understand Christophe . . .
     
  19. elispeedster

    elispeedster Mentor

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    This is a major problem...he will do 2 week stints in South Africa, but Lemaitre needs long term training in warmer/humid climates which is better for intense training allowo\ing the muscles to contract and expand fully with less worry for injury...Lemaitre is just so far up Caraz's ass, he will never change.
     
  20. Izwal

    Izwal Guru

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    +1.
     
  21. RCSMAN

    RCSMAN Mentor

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    it's was just 3 or 4 days very cold, this week, the sun is back


    "it's hard to understand Christophe"

    no it's hard to understand YOU, because when Christophe ran 9.92 and 19.80, Carraz, the temperature, wasn't a problem for you, NOW everything is a potential problem for you
     
  22. jacknyc

    jacknyc Master

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    It's hard to understand me?!
    I just want Christophe to run 9.92 and 19.80 again, or better!

    So when things aren't going well, you should try to fix them . . . no?
     
  23. RCSMAN

    RCSMAN Mentor

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    "I just want Christophe to run 9.92 and 19.80 again, or better!"

    me too but it's stupid to use scapegoats !!!
     
  24. The Master

    The Master Guru

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    I cant believe you guys are still in the same pattern for years now bitching on Pierre Carraz, French way of training etc. Someone has even now the pic of Carraz as a profile picture, what a sarcam

    And RCSMAN trying to defend Pierre Carraz, please stop using capitals letters, franchement ne mets plus de majuscule ni trop de points d'exclamation mon vieux, cela n'aide pas ta cause à mon avis.

    To the guys that bitch on his coach and on the fact that Christophe is not running 9'7X time, I want to say, you have a serious issue, I mean a mental issue. It is not because you have decided in your confortable couch, that Christophe has the potential to run 9'7X and 19'6X, that it gives you the right to bitch like that.

    I was following this thread at the very begining, and I follow Christophe since 2007, I was just hoping him to be a sub-10 / sub-20 runner, and he did it many times and he made me so happy. But that was it, that was all I wanted, I believe he is is 100% natural, how come he could run times that are done only by roids / juiced muscles freaks ?

    It is like asking a bodybuilder to be as big as Phil Health without taking HGH/ Insulin and Steroid...

    But some guys have decided that he has the potential to do it so it must be true. And that he should train with americans (with Justin Galin, Marion Jones, or Tyson Gay maybe?).

    Personnaly I don't mind if Christophe is regressing, he gave me more joy than I would have expected and I don't project my personal issue on him.

    I came here in 2009 because I was happy to find a thread on my hero, not because of some racism toward black people because I'm not racist, but this thread is just useless now.
     
  25. fernchris55

    fernchris55 Guru

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    Crickets.................................
     

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