a bit of history

Discussion in 'Track & Field' started by mastermulti, May 31, 2011.

  1. mastermulti

    mastermulti Mentor

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    we had 4 good white sprinters in the world top 20 as recently as 1999.

    10.060.4Koji Ito JPNLausanne 02/07/1999
    10.07-0.6Matt Shirvington AUSLondon 07/08/1999
    10.08 A-0.1Mathew Quinn RSAGermiston 06/04/1999
    10.081.0Roland Németh HUNBudapest 09/06/1999

    We wanted so much and this was about as good as it got.
    Looking back, Shirvo came 4th in that run in London while winner Maurice Greene won in 9.97, only a tenth quicker. From then on Shirvo could never relax and let it happen. The monkey was always on his back. The press trumpeted how they thought he should go in every upcoming meet and he got sick (literally) trying to realise their expectations.
     
  2. freddie

    freddie Guru

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    There is a similarity here to the 800m of the early 1980's. The top White 800m runners 30 years ago were significantly faster than the top white athletes of today (3 into the 42's from one country). Even Borzakovskiy and Bucher rantheirtop times 10 years ago. What is interesting is that theBlackathletestoday are NOT getting faster - onlytwo have ever bettered Seb Coe's 1981 time - but the White athletes are just getting slower.
     
  3. mastermulti

    mastermulti Mentor

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    yep, Coe, Cram and Ovett would figure highly even today. Culture of the time has so much to do with being a force in certain events.
    Having said that I still believe many blacks of west African ancestry have the tools to run faster in the sprints. Jamaica with its love of sprinting will always throw up fantastic sprinters.
    Fewer whites seem to have all the tools but everyone should be encouraged to do the best in whatever event they choose. Every now and then a Lemaitre (Wells, Mennea and Borzov) with great ability and a strong will to win will pop up and excel.
     
  4. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
  5. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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    I have to admit that I'm a little dissapointed that no one commented on that great interview from decades ago. The guy was and still is a legend and even Lemaitre may never win double olympic gold 100/200 at the Olympics although I would love to see it. Borzov also admitted on many occasions that he always only ran fast enough to win. In most races that met anywhere from 80-90% of his ability. He never wanted to get hurt. It sure worked and he still was almost unbeatable from a long time. I just wish he would have broken both barriers that Christophe did back in the 1970's! That would have been really cool and he was capable of doing it. If he were running in his prime today, his times would be similar to Lemaitre although they do it in a different way. I will always admire this blast from the past. A legend in his own time and still until this day!
     
  6. albinosprint

    albinosprint Mentor

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  7. planb47

    planb47 Newbie

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    Borzovs times would not be similar to Lemaitres his 10.07 and 20.00 in Munich were on an extremely soft track 80 on the stiffness compared to 8 in Beijing he would break 19.5 and definitely 9.9 maybe even 9.8
     
  8. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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  9. dr.riders

    dr.riders Newbie

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    Carlos Calado from Portugal runs a 100m in 10.11 with a -1.3 wind in 1999!
     
  10. dr.riders

    dr.riders Newbie

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    And he was a long jumper, not a sprinter!
     
  11. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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    Carlos Calado was a very good all around athlete. From the triple jump to the long jump and even sprinting. I wonder if he ever considered doing the decathalon? With that eye popping time into a negative wind in 99 and his silver medal in the world junior champs over 100 meters, you really have to think that maybe he would have been a very good pure 100 meter sprinter. The kid could run. Here are his stats from his athletics career.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Calado
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2012
  12. dr.riders

    dr.riders Newbie

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    Great interview from Borzov! I just read now. A very great athlete!
     
  13. dr.riders

    dr.riders Newbie

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    I agree with you
     
  14. Emerson

    Emerson Newbie

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    Been a lot of great white sprinters over the years.

    USC alone...

    Charles Paddock
    Frank Wykoff
    Mel Patton
    Fred Kuller
    Payton Jordan

    Here in the USA...


    Jackson Sholtz Missouri
    George Simpson Ohio State
    Perrin Walker Georgia or was it Georgia Tech?
    Hal Davis Cal
    Clyde Jeffreys Stanford
    Lindy Remigino Manhatten
    Dean Smith Texas
    Forest Beatty Cal
    Bobby Morrow and Bill Woodhouse Abilene Christian
    Thane Baker Kansas St
    Dave Sime Duke
    Gerry Ashworth Dartmouth
    John Roderick SMU****
    Darel Newman Fresno State
    Jerry Bright ASU
    Rocky Woods Texas A&M
    Larry Questad Stanford
    Mark Lutz Kansas
    Ben Vaughn Georgia Tech
    Marty Kruelee SDS
    Kevin Little Drake

    ...since we are talking history.

    Others...

    Harold Abrahams GB
    Percy Wiliams Canada
    Mike Agostini Trinidad
    Armin Hary Germany
    Hector Hogan Aussie
    Paul Nash SA
    Valery Borzov USSR
    Livio Berruti & Pietro Mennea Italy
    Matt Shirvington Aussie
    Allan Wells GB
    Eugen Ray WG


    ....now add all those I'm forgetting.


    White American female sprinters...hmmmm?




    **** Roderick, Tim Dwight, Lance Alworth, Travis Jersey, Don Beebe, Hugh McElhenny, Sonny Randle, Roger Carr, Bill Groman, Billy Cannon, Richmond Flowers....the fastest white AFLers/NFLers. Wes Welker is quick, not fast.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2012
  15. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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    Emerson = Brutal. You never give up do you?

    Ok so here we go again. You on on the shortest leash ever! If you want to stay here, don't talk about how slow you think whites are and all of the other racist b.s. We are here to celebrate white athletes acheivments. Not to talk about Gatlin, Chambers, etc. You can talk about them on all of the other sites. If you want to stay for even a brief period, learn to root for sprinters, middle distance/distance and field event track athletes that look like you. If not, then leave before your banned again for the millionth time!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2012
  16. Emerson

    Emerson Newbie

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    All I've ever asked or wanted is be realistic. And that always gets me banned. Why do we have to run down/criticize the black athletes? Why can't we do as you said and root for the white ones without....all those black guys are druggies...when the last white sprinter to win a majors sprint title was a druggie in Kenteris.

    I like the level of sprint knowledge here or I wouldn't bother. Do I have to run down black athletes to post here? I mean if that isn't racist what is?

    As you know I know my stuff and can be a big plus here, I have to be real however. No way do I believe drugs are why black athletes excell in explosive type athletic events. They have a physique tailor made for that sort of thing. That's why even at the grade school level little black boys are setting all the records and winning the races. We see it at the high school level. That's not because of PED's. Then add all those old timers like Jesse Owens, Eddie Tolan, Harrison Dilliard, Bob Hayes etc etc etc.

    Let me stay, I like it here. That above dialogue will be the last thing said about black athletes....promise. I say anything else...poof!!!!...gone!
     
  17. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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    No one here says all blacks are on steroids. We just have a very high probability that many of the elite are. Guys like Bolt, Powell, Carter, Blake, Gatlin, Chambers, etc. Most if not all here have defended the black sprinters that look natural. Two examples would be Allyson Felix and Wallace Spearmon. Most are on so many p.e.d.s. that it has become commical. Look at a guy like Kim Collins. He has had a natural look for a black sprinter that has had a good career. Same with Jeremy Wariner and many others both black and white.

    The bottom line is that as usual, you were banned again because you talk bad about the white athletes while only having praise for the blacks. You know the rules. You could have remained but you are too brainwashed to not constantly talk about your favorite atheltes which do not look like you do. Nice try but it's not working. We don't need trolls constantly disrupting the board.
     
  18. FootballDad

    FootballDad Hall of Famer

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    Some of the points that Emerson/Brutal make about old time sprinters and high school sprinters seem to make sense on the surface, but not when you dig deeper. It's the equivalent of saying that the NFL is mostly black because blacks dominate at the college and high school level, when we know that whites absolutely dominate at HS levels and are weeded out before college. In the "old skool" days, pre-peds, the competition between blacks and whites in track were very even, "look at the history", as the above poster would say. At the high school level, when left to their own choices, it's the same. At a recent meet here locally in the Kansas City area, white runners won all of the short sprints. Blacks were competive, finishing second in the 100 and 3rd in the 200, but overall the competition was even. Whites are discouraged from running the shorter events, just as they are discouraged from playing RB, CB and WR, and the majority "listen to their coaches" and end up running 400 and up. Hence, a dearth of white talent in shorter sprints.
     
  19. dwid

    dwid Hall of Famer

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    Great points FootballDad. They try to keep us out. Even the guys in that make it all the way to the NFL still get screwed over for the most part like when they put our big fast receivers on the bench like Riley Cooper and Kris Durham. Matt Jones was never used as a deep threat and out of the league, not given a chance with a qb that can throw. He might have ran a dozen or so deep routes in his entire career, most coming his rookie year with Leftwich who had a long wind up motion, but a much stronger arm than Garrard.

    Speaking of Kansas, since I am not familiar with track, does anybody think Jordy Nelson could have broken the 10 second barrier if he had stuck with track in college? Assuming he took it up full time and did track after college as well? looking him up it says he holds the state record in the 100 and 200 with a 10.63. Also saw that Weston Dressler ran a 10.44 when I was looking up Nelson. Both of those were in high school I believe.

    Jamaal Charles is supposedly the fastest 100 m guy in the NFL with 10.23 in college. Thats not including the midget Trindon who doesn't really play. Jeff Demps would have been the fastest but is quitting football to do track. I am not sure what any of these guys ran in high school so I am wondering if they had similar times to Nelson or even slower.
     

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