2010 New England Patriots

Don Wassall

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devans said:
New England are a truly remarkable team this year. It is amazing to someone like me, who has watched the NFL on TV for many years, to see a white QB standing behind a predominately white O-line with two of the three wide receivers being white and with a white running back in the backfield. Surely this must stand out to anyone over the age of six watching this as an amazing transformation of what we have been watching for the last 20 years. But it is only one team (although the colts are pretty remarkable also at times) and they need to keep winning. They are only just winning close games at the moment, and Brady does not look as good as we all know he can be. I think the conflict with Moss has heaped extra pressure on him to succeed, and he is feeling it. If white players are to get the chances they deserve in the future New England have to at least get to the playoffs. They are the team everyone should be supporting.



New England, Indianapolis, Green Bay and Cleveland are all worth rooting for because their offenses are pretty similar, i.e. mostly White. Houston, Atlanta and Miami also. And they're all good offensive teams except for Cleveland, which is so dependent on Peyton Hillis. The Browns are showing signs of turning it around and it would be sweet if they can still win 7 or 8 games this season.
 
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This is somethingIve been screaming about for years. The ESPNs of the world not only need totrack targets(they do it per game but usually not for the season till now)but it needs to become part of America's football lexicon. I dont understand why we dont rattle off receiver stats, like, "so and so had 7 catches for 110 yds and a TD on 8 targets!" You would think its the most important part of the receiving game. With that rant aside, ESPN is keeping better track of these things. The Pats players so far on the year (players listed have been targeted at least 3 times):

Danny Woodhead -- 17 targets/14 catches (82.3 percent)
Aaron Hernandez -- 37 targets/29 catches (78.3 percent)
Rob Gronkowski -- 13 targets/10 catches (76.9 percent)
Wes Welker -- 56 targets/40 catches (71.4 percent)
Julian Edelman -- 6 targets/4 catches (66.6 percent)
BenJarvus Green-Ellis -- 3 targets/2 catches (66 percent)
Deion Branch -- 23 targets/14 catches (60.8 percent)
Brandon Tate -- 25 targets/15 catches (60 percent)
Kevin Faulk -- 10 targets/6 catches (60 percent)
Randy Moss -- 22 targets/9 catches (40.9 percent)
Sammy Morris -- 3 targets/1 catch (33 percent)
Alge Crumpler -- 4 targets/1 catches (25 percent)


It goes exactly the way you would think. If there where more white WRs/RBs, a 75% completion percentage would be the normfor a startingNFL QB.
 

Don Wassall

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Good stuff, Toby, very illuminating in, uh, black and White.
 

backrow

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There also needs to be a stat for interceptions off rebounds, it's ludicrous to punish qbs for receivers alligator arms or inability to hold onto the ball.
 
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backrow said:
There also needs to be a stat for interceptions off rebounds, it's ludicrous to punish qbs for receivers alligator arms or inability to hold onto the ball.




Another footballstatpet peeve of mine! They have the unearned run in baseball, why not the same in football--unearned interceptions?
 

Charlie

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If I'm not mistaken Sanchez had six of his passes dropped by Jet's receivers in the Packer game (Sports Illustrated said 'at least' four). While drops are inevitable 6 of 38 seems unusually high (no rain, not cold). Possibly one way to not punish a QB's rating because of dropped passes is to not count drops as incompletions when the number of drops exceeds the league's per game average.
 
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Toby Hillis said:
backrow said:
There also needs to be a stat for interceptions off rebounds, it's ludicrous to punish qbs for receivers alligator arms or inability to hold onto the ball.
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<div>Another football stat pet peeve of mine!  They have the unearned run in baseball, why not the same in football--unearned interceptions?</div>

That's funny, for years I thought I was the only one who felt that way. Those INTs should be credited somehow to the WRs who screw up.
 

Broncos

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Toby Hillis said:
<div>This is somethingIve been screaming about for years. The ESPNs of the world not only need totrack targets(they do it per game but usually not for the season till now)but it needs to become part of America's football lexicon. I dont understand why we dont rattle off receiver stats, like, "so and so had 7 catches for 110 yds and a TD on 8 targets!" You would think its the most important part of the receiving game. With that rant aside, ESPN is keeping better track of these things. The Pats players so far on the year (players listed have been targeted at least 3 times):</div>
<div></div>
<div>Danny Woodhead -- 17 targets/14 catches (82.3 percent)
Aaron Hernandez -- 37 targets/29 catches (78.3 percent)
Rob Gronkowski -- 13 targets/10 catches (76.9 percent)
Wes Welker -- 56 targets/40 catches (71.4 percent)
Julian Edelman -- 6 targets/4 catches (66.6 percent)
BenJarvus Green-Ellis -- 3 targets/2 catches (66 percent)
Deion Branch -- 23 targets/14 catches (60.8 percent)
Brandon Tate -- 25 targets/15 catches (60 percent)
Kevin Faulk -- 10 targets/6 catches (60 percent)
Randy Moss -- 22 targets/9 catches (40.9 percent)
Sammy Morris -- 3 targets/1 catch (33 percent)
Alge Crumpler -- 4 targets/1 catches (25 percent)
</div>
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<div>It goes exactly the way you would think. If there where more white WRs/RBs, a 75% completion percentage would be the normfor a startingNFL QB.</div>
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</div><div>No offense, but that's flawed logic. Only 1 of those 5 white players is over 10¼ yards per reception.. whereas 5 of the 7 black players are. For the most part, whitewide-outsand tight ends are possession receivers.. meaning, they rarely stretch the field, are rarely double-teamed, and are almost never covered by the #1 or #2 corner. Five to 10 yard slant route completions are higher percentage passes not only because of the shorter distance the ball travels, but because they're covered by a safety or linebacker as opposed to the speedier, more athletic, hand-in-your-face, ball-swatting, double-teaming corner/safety combos down the field.</div><div>
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Woody

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You're point also contains some flawed logic. Even those black players who are running short routes have a lower reception-per target % than Welker, Woodhead, etc. Look at Green-Ellis and Alge Crumpler. Also, if you compare black and white WRs who play the same role outside, you will find they have differing catch % as well. and did you consider that these whiterecievers who are playing possesion type roles are doing so preciselybc they ARE surer recievers? Your logic is more flawed than that of Toby Hillis, though you do make a valid point about differing roles.
 

PhillyBirds

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The issue I see here is sample size. Aside from Hernandez and Welker, none of these guys have a significant enough body of work so far this season to draw any reasonable conclusions. With the exception of those two, none of the other players on the list have more than fifteen receptions.

Difference of roles aside (which makes sense) there simply isn't enough information here to be able to say anything conclusively. It was very well researched Toby, but I think we would be able to infer more looking back at the end of the season on a year's worth of data. Some of these guys spent significant time injured, benched, or misused. The perils of small sample sizes.
 

ToughJ.Riggins

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Broncos, Kevin Curtis had a 70%+ completion rate on targets in his 1,110+ yard season for the Eagles as their #1 WR- a few years ago- which was one of the best in the league and he averaged over 14 YPC that season.

Broncos, of course it depends on the roles as well, but Welker was the best guy in the league on short routes from 2007-2009 no doubt. Just because he was used as a possession receiver doesn't make him invaluable- when he was the best possession receiver in the league and consistently moved the chains. He also had the highest percentage of yards after catch those years. He started getting the double teams over Moss in the last 2 years.
 

Woody

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One of the anouncers actually pointed out that as a result of Welker getting double teamed someone had to get open. He said this as Brandon Tate dropped a pass right in front of him in single coverage. Props to him.
 

chris371

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Woody said:
One of the anouncers actually pointed out that as a result of Welker getting double teamed someone had to get open. He said this as Brandon Tate dropped a pass right in front of him in single coverage. Props to him.

Yeah I remember that too. It was completely true, as the replay showed two defenders covering Welker ( who was actually semi open despite the double coverage).
 

Broncos

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ToughJ.Riggins said:
Broncos, Kevin Curtis had a 70%+ completion rate on targets in his 1,110+ yard season for the Eagles as their #1 WR- a few years ago- which was one of the best in the league and he averaged over 14 YPC that season.
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</div><div>77/136 = 56.6%. I'm not trying to knock him or anything, but he wasn't even close to 70+%. Brian Westbrook was 75% because he was the Eagles slant/broken play dumpoff guy that year.</div><div>
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Broncos, of course it depends on the roles as well, but Welker was the best guy in the league on short routes from 2007-2009 no doubt. Just because he was used as a possession receiver doesn't make him invaluable- when he was the best possession receiver in the league and consistently moved the chains. He also had the highest percentage of yards after catch those years. He started getting the double teams over Moss in the last 2 years.
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</div><div>I wasn't saying Welk wasn'tvaluable. The reason I posted what I did was BECAUSE of his value. His role was forced to change the minute Moss walked out of the door. The Patriots are not the same offensive juggernaut they were without him freeing up space by pulling 2 db's and a over-the-top safety down the field with him. Opposing teams know Deion Branch only requires single coverage. I was simply wondering that Belichick was planning to do now that the NFL's #1 possession guy is being neutralized. Anyone watching the games can see that this offense isn't humming like before.</div>
 

FootballDad

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I'm certain that Matt Jones would reconsider his retirement if he received a phone call from Bill Belichick, and he would be the answer to the Pats problem. Just run him down the field every play, like they did with Moss. If they don't double him, then it's easy TD's for Brady, if they do, it's back to normal for Welker.
 

snow

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Welker is not a possession guy, a possession guy is someone who catches the ball and gets the first down and thats it, a possession receiver doesn't lead the league in yards after the catch for several years. I hate when that term is misused. Mike Furrey was a possession guy, he would get the first down and go down.

Welker was used no different than Westbrook or Marshall Faulk except that he didn't receive direct handoffs. Tons of his passes were either right by the los of behind the los. Ever since the Patriots played the "Greatest Show on Turf" in the Superbowl, Bellicheck has been obsessed with having a player like Marshall Faulk and getting a player like him, and looking back at the film from how Faulk was used in those years, Welker did everything Faulk did from 2007 to 2009 except take handoffs.

Now it seems like Woodhead is slowly going into that role, except that Woodhead is actually taking handoffs, so it seems Bellicheck got what he wanted, even though Welker was great (I guess Bellicheck didn't want to give him handoffs) it would be great to see a guy like Danny get 1k rushing and 1k receiving like Faulk did in 1999 (perhaps next year or the year after that?, hoping for 1k from scrimmage first). Welker wasn't facing just dbs, he was facing guys that runningbacks faced, because he was doing a lot of things that runningbacks do, like Reggie Bush, except he was much better at it. Yes he did some things a wide receiver does, but he was a hybrid, and mostly used like a receiving runningback. The only difference is was lined up a little further away from the qb.

As far as Moss carrying 2 dbs and a safety all the time, that is ridiculous. Most of the time he would have one corner on him and a safety over the top, and if you look at most of his biggest plays, he was only covered by one guy. So obviously defenders were worried about someone else, I think Welker and Moss helped each other equally.

Welker is not being neutralized because of the absence of Moss, he is being neutralized because of his knee. He was one of the quickest guys, cutting and weaving in of traffic, that first year back from a knee injury you don't totally trust that knee. Like I said, he used more like a receiving runninback, hes not going to get as many yards if he can't trust that knee.

and btw you don't need someone like Randy Moss to open up the underneath stuff, other teams do it all the time and none of these have Randy Moss, all you need to do is throw a few bombs down the field, it really doesn't matter if the WR catches all of them, it still opens things up.

What would help is Tate actually catching some of those deep passes, and getting Woodhead a little more involved in the passing offense until Welker is 100 percent. Even if Moss was back it wouldn't help Welker right now, because its HIS KNEE. He was putting up the same stats when Moss was there the first few games, averaging 8 yards per catch, when is avg in the past was at least 10 yards per catch. He is still averaging around 8 yards per catch now that Moss is gone. Now Moss is gone we are seeing them targeting Welker less because he isn't as effective, because of his KNEE and the emergence of Woodhead

So instead of Welker getting 6 to 8 catches, hes getting around 4, Woodhead is taking those catches away from him because hes averaging 10.9 yards per reception compared to Welker's 8. Woodhead wasn't used much in the passing game at first because he was acquired during the season and probably took him a few weeks to be comfortable with the playbook, but they started to really use him in the passing game around week 6, right around when Welker's receptions went down. Not a coincidence.



Edited by: snow
 

Don Wassall

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The Patriots are in the process of rebuilding their offense as the season goes on, with young guys like Woodhead, Gronkowski and Hernandez still learning, and the veterans adjusting to the new style of it. Also, Welker is coming back from a serious knee injury. He won't be one hundred percent until next season, if he's ever one hundred percent again, so any judgments right now about his role or effectiveness diminishing are premature.
 

ToughJ.Riggins

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snow said:
Welker is not a possession guy, a possession guy is someone who catches the ball and gets the first down and thats it, a possession receiver doesn't lead the league in yards after the catch for several years. I hate when that term is misused. Mike Furrey was a possession guy, he would get the first down and go down. Welker was used no different than Westbrook or Marshall Faulk except that he didn't receive direct handoffs. Tons of his passes were either right by the los of behind the los. Ever since the Patriots played the "Greatest Show on Turf" in the Superbowl, Bellicheck has been obsessed with having a player like Marshall Faulk and getting a player like him, and looking back at the film from how Faulk was used in those years, Welker did everything Faulk did from 2007 to 2009 except take handoffs. Now it seems like Woodhead is slowly going into that role, except that Woodhead is actually taking handoffs, so it seems Bellicheck got what he wanted, even though Welker was great (I guess Bellicheck didn't want to give him handoffs) it would be great to see a guy like Danny get 1k rushing and 1k receiving like Faulk did in 1999 (perhaps next year or the year after that?, hoping for 1k from scrimmage first). Welker wasn't facing just dbs, he was facing guys that runningbacks faced, because he was doing a lot of things that runningbacks do, like Reggie Bush, except he was much better at it. Yes he did some things a wide receiver does, but he was a hybrid, and mostly used like a receiving runningback. The only difference is was lined up a little further away from the qb.As far as Moss carrying 2 dbs and a safety all the time, that is ridiculous. Most of the time he would have one corner on him and a safety over the top, and if you look at most of his biggest plays, he was only covered by one guy. So obviously defenders were worried about someone else, I think Welker and Moss helped each other equally.  Welker is not being neutralized because of the absence of Moss, he is being neutralized because of his knee. He was one of the quickest guys, cutting and weaving in of traffic, that first year back from a knee injury you don't totally trust that knee. Like I said, he used more like a receiving runninback, hes not going to get as many yards if he can't trust that knee. and btw you don't need someone like Randy Moss to open up the underneath stuff, other teams do it all the time and none of these have Randy Moss, all you need to do is throw a few bombs down the field, it really doesn't matter if the WR catches all of them, it still opens things up. What would help is Tate actually catching some of those deep passes, and getting Woodhead a little more involved in the passing offense until Welker is 100 percent. Even if Moss was back it wouldn't help Welker right now, because its HIS KNEE. He was putting up the same stats when Moss was there the first few games, averaging 8 yards per catch, when is avg in the past was at least 10 yards per catch. He is still averaging around 8 yards per catch now that Moss is gone. Now Moss is gone we are seeing them targeting Welker less because he isn't as effective, because of his KNEE and the emergence of WoodheadSo instead of Welker getting 6 to 8 catches, hes getting around 4, Woodhead is taking those catches away from him because hes averaging 10.9 yards per reception compared to Welker's 8. Woodhead wasn't used much in the passing game at first because he was acquired during the season and probably took him a few weeks to be comfortable with the playbook, but they started to really use him in the passing game around week 6, right around when Welker's receptions went down. Not a coincidence.

Snow, this post is SPOT ON. As far as my Kevin Curtis 70%+ completion rate, maybe it was the year after his 1,100 season. I remember reading on a blog that Curtis had the highest completion rate one year for a receiver with over 12 YPC and then the next year had one of the lowest 5 rates in the league. Does anyone know where to find these target/reception stats. I go on Yahoo and ESPN a lot but can never find it. Broncos, where did you get the info? As far as Welker, I don't think after the knee injury he had that he may ever be quite the same again, since his game is short area quickness much more than straight lined speed where cutting is so important.
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If not, hopefully Woodhead will take over the dominance!Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins
 

Kaptain

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I'm tired of hearing how Moss makes teams better simply by being on the field. The the latest the media is bleeting out. What a joke. As if a player who can't get open, catch passes, and doesn't even try benefits any team. What kind of mental gymnastics are they expecting us to perform to think he is even an average player?

Nobody mentions that the first post-Moss game was the best of Brett Favre's entire career! Or that the Patriot's running game has improved post-Moss. Or that Tom Brady's pre and post-Moss numbers are almost identical.

BTW, I think Brady is not playing as well this year in general due to nothing else than he is not playing as well. Everyone talks about Brett Favre being a drama queen, but I think Brady and his new haircut have gotten a bit full of themselves - a bit too much Hollywood. Just an opinion based on his mannerism and play this year. It's hard not to get a big head when your football icon and screwing beautiful. Brady simply needs to quit trying to spread the ball out to Hernandez, Tate, and Branch and get the ball to Welker. When he locks in on Welker the results are almost always positive.
 

whiteathlete33

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Taylor won't be back today. It's highly unlikely that when he does return he would take reps from Danny Woodhead anyway.



pixel.gif


Fred Taylor (toe) was downgraded to out for Week 10.
<div ="s_pNewsTextMain">
Assuming Fragile Fred returns Week 11, the Pats face the Colts'
29th-ranked rush defense. However, Danny Woodhead and BenJarvus
Green-Ellis have become top dogs in the New England backfield, making
the injury-prone Taylor a low-upside start, healthy or not.
</div>
 

Westside

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I will be praying for a huge breakout game by Danny. Go Danny
 

backrow

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Patriots DE Mike Wright was diagnosed with a concussion in the team's Week 11 win over the Colts.

Wright has been New England's top pass rusher by a good margin, racking up a team-high 5.5 sacks. With the short week, it doesn't look like he'll be available against the Lions. It's good news for Detroit's passing game.
Source: Boston Herald
 

Bart

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Great article on Woody.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2010/11/27/2010-11-27_patriots_danny_woodhead_used_to_beating_the_odds_in_life_is_looking_to_beat_his_.html

Patriots' Danny Woodhead, who's been beating the odds all his life, looking to beat his former team
BY Kevin Armstrong
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Saturday, November 27th 2010, 3:19 PM

(snip)
At North Platte High, he operated best in space, a scat back with the swagger of a teen twice his size, scooting through holes out of Wing-T sets and into end zones. His "Most Athletic" designation in his senior yearbook was an understated superlative. In four years, he set school or state records in four sports, sprinting a blistering 10.5 seconds in the 100 meters, scoring 47 points in a basketball game and netting 16 goals in a soccer season. He was best at football: six touchdowns in a single game, 4,891 rushing yards for his career.

"That dude is one tough All-American hero," Jets defensive lineman Sione Pouha says. "You've got Superman, Spider-Man and Danny Woodhead."

(snip)

"He needed a chance," Osborne says.

He ran a 40-yard dash between 4.33 and 4.38 seconds, recorded a vertical jump of 38 1/2 inches and bench pressed 225 pounds 20 times that day. Mangini liked to mine lower levels for what he calls "ridiculous statistics" and came across Woodhead. Though he did not select him, Mangini called Woodhead's house during the last round.

"We won't be able to get you, but we want you," Mangini said.

(snip)

"What impresses me most is he steps in, picks up those blitzing linebackers like he's a 220-pounder," Patriots tailback Fred Taylor says. "He never falls back."

(snip)
 

Woody

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Jamie Dukes is officially a retard. He stated that the Jets have a better OL than the Pats. Lets see: Tom Brady has been sacked 15 times, Sanchez 19. The Patriots OL blocks for a rushing attack that isbetter in most of the meaningful catagories, including first down % and Rushing TDs. He also stated that the Jets have better RBs and recievers. Lets see: Both teams use 2 backs. The Jets use Tomlinson as the scat back and Shonn Green as the power back. The Pats use Woodhead as the scat back and Green-Ellis as the power back. Comparision:

Woodhead Tomlinson
YPA: 5.44.5
TD: 4 5
YPC:9.67.4

I could go into the comparisions between Green-Ellis and Shonn Green, but suffice to say that Green Ellis is better statistically than him in every catagory. He also has 9 TDs to Shonn Greens 1.
Also keep in mind that Woodhead has had far less playing time than Tomlinson, yet still has almost as many TDs. The Jets being more commited to the run does not mean they are better at it. Jamie Dukes is a dead set racist who prefers the Jets in all these catagories b/c they have no white skill players in them, and have a blacker OL. We are also supposed to believe that Braylon Edwards is better than Wes Welker I suppose.
 

Thrashen

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I found an "interesting"Â￾ quote from that bumbling CBS-sponsored Caste Insect, Boomer Esiason, during an interview for the Dennis and Callahan radio show"¦.

From Article:
Esiason gives credit to the overachieving players on the Patriots. "With [Julian] Edelman, with [Danny] Woodhead and with Wes Welker, when they're on the field together, it looks like an Ivy League football game,"Â￾ he said.

The Patriots offensive skill players remind him of an "Ivy League game,"Â￾ huh? I'll bet. I wonder if that was racial vernacular for "too white?"Â￾ Does that mean the Patriots offense is not only more athletic than their black counterparts (they're the highest scoring offense in the NFL), but also vastly more intelligent, too? No, that's certainly not what that chubby, bird-brain swine meant by those little remarks.

Thanks, Boomer; you're the spitting image a modern "professional football analyst."Â￾ You're unknowledgeable, biased, inarticulate, and, of course, openly anti-white. Don't fret"¦nobody in the mainstream will so much as disagree with your buffoonish racism, let alone question or chastise you.

Boomer must have suckled at the ultra-casteon teat of his CBS peers (Dan Marino, Shannon Sharpe, Bill Cowturd, and James Brown). You know"¦that "professional"Â￾ team of analysts that constantly engage in the "Everybody Talk At Once"Â￾ broadcast style.

Link:
Boomer Esiason on D&C - Edited by: Thrashen
 
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