Duke's Lacrosse Team Fiasco

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I think I can shed some light on this subject.

The indictments -- while obviously a farce -- are not as important as they at first seem. You have to understand the dynamics of a grand jury. This is a group of people that is too large to be completely intimate but small enough to create a feeling of unity. Each jurisdiction is different, but in most cases they meet once a week for several months. In this regard, the dynamic is a perfect medium for "groupthink."

Grand jurors (unlike trial or "petit" jurors) generally enjoy their experience and they form a close bond with the prosecutor. Therefore, they will issue a true bill of indictment unless the prosecutor makes it reasonably clear that he doesn't WANT a true bill (which usually happens where the "victim"/accuser is prominent or politically connected and the prosecutor doesn't want to tick him or her off, so the prosecutor takes the case to the grand jury and lets the grand jury dispose of it by issuing a "no"-bill).

As one prosecutor put it: "They would indict a ham sandwich if you asked them." Historically, this is why the use of grand juries has been limited and were, at times, disfavored, as they were perceived to be "in cahoots" with the authorities. Most states now limit grand juries to no more than a 6 month term.

Regarding the potential make-up of a trial jury in the Durham area, it might not be as black as you think. Jury rolls are taken from voter registration lists. Blacks will turn out in droves at a public rally (they don't have scheduling conflicts with work, school, and the like) but that doesn't mean that they've taken the initiative to register to vote.

I worked as a prosecutor in a Southern town that was 1/3 black. I never had more than one black out of 36 people on a grand jury, nor did I have more than 1 out of 12 on a trial jury. Most of my juries were all White.

The fear I have for these guys is that they will be advised to plea-out to a lesser charge in order to avoid the emotional trauma of a trial. Instead, they should go full bore against this black b!tch and ruin her life, Nifong's worthless life, and the lives of those of all the people involved in this sick episode.

Ultimately, this case could be the one that exposes this country for what it truly has become -- a gulag state. Yeah, you heard me. We have political prisoners in this country just as sure the Soviets once did. These boys are targets for political persecution, too: they are being railroaded because someone in that house uttered the word "n!gger". That's what this is all about; that's ALL this is about. And it sickens me to no end.
 

Don Wassall

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Very enlightening post, SK. I think you're probably right that this entire persecution and national hysteria is indeed because one or two drunk, well-off, "privileged" white boys said the n-word. The lives ofeveryone on thelacrosse teamare going to be negatively affected in a major way, and of course the larger morality play is tomake it clear toall white college athletes that you too must tow the line and become as meek and emasculated as your fellow whites on campus and in society at large or you might be next to go through this.
 

Bunnyman

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Duke is just barely a "white college." Our people are about 67% of the U.S. population but just 56% of the Duke population. Must be white skin privelege.
 

White Shogun

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Surprisingly, Sean Hannity has come out on his radio show, more or less defending the players. He has called into question Jesse Jackon and Al Sharpton's involvement, pointed out the lack of DNA evidence, the questionable 911 call, and the alleged victim's state of inebriation when found by police officers after the incident. They also discussed what are supposed to be the airtight alibis of the accused, although Geraldo and some female lawyer were questioning why they didn't present this evidence to the grandy jury: HULLO, IT WAS A SEALED INDICTMENT. And most grand juries, as SK already pointed out, never hear contrary evidence anyway.

Geraldo's advice: the boys should cop a plea to a lesser charge and get on with their lives. He and the female shark were both 'certain' that something went 'awry' that night, but steered clear of saying they believed 100% that a rape occured.

Hannity also questioned why the boy's names have been released but not that of the alleged victim.
 

Poacher

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"Instead, they should go full bore against this black b!tch and ruin her life, Nifong's worthless life, and the lives of those of all the people involved in this sick episode."

Excellent quote and excellent post. I too hope they go "full bore." The only thing is that the state has virtually unlimited resources it can bring to bear in these types of situations to enforce racial orthodxy. But having said that, I hope these guys go to the mat and fight like hell, even play dirty if they have to.
 

Jimmy Chitwood

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SK is absolutely right! the only way to defend the players against the illegal act that they committed, that of being white, is to attack all the parties involved in support of the hoaxer's lies: nifong, the media, jesse jackson, and anyone who jumped on the BS bandwagon.

any sign of weakness (civility, repentance, remorse, etc.) doesn't result in compassion and understanding, but rather results in an all-out assault on the weak-seeming party. aggressiveness and strength is all that the black culture, and the media hordes that faithfully worship at the negro altar, recognize and fear.
 
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"any sign of weakness (civility, repentance, remorse, etc.) doesn't result in compassion and understanding, but rather results in an all-out assault on the weak-seeming party."

You bet. Did they forgive Trent Lott when he apologized? How about Jimmy the Greek?

Whites should NEVER back down when faced with false accusations, especially those of a criminal nature.

Here's a good example of how it should work:

Several months ago, a White female state legislator in Augusta, Georgia was taken to task for saying "blacks in my district only vote if they get paid to." As you might expect, the usual suspects were up in arms; the NAACP, SCLC, Georgia Black Caucus, the jewsmedia, etc.
When given a chance to apologixe or retract her comment, the legislator declined, saying "What I said is basically true."

To almost everyone's surprise, that's as far as the story went; the "bastards", as I like to call them, all retreated into gutters from whence they came.

The fact is -- and this woman knew it -- that any further investigation into the issue would reveal that she was right: the blacks in her district only voted if they got paid to vote. Her handling of the situation was brilliant because she threw the ball back into their court. The bastards, at that point, had to back up their shrilling with facts disproving her statement...and, predictably, they couldn't do it. So they slithered away.

This is how the Duke boys should handle it. Make this D.A. explain to the taxpaying public -- who are paying his salary and funding his investigation -- why he is dumping good money after bad in this public lynching. Make him answer questions about the strength of this case. Make him explain how the victim was able to identify, as her attacker, a person who was not at the party at the same time she was there. And then explain why this pile of sh*te was taken to the grand jury.

The truth is to the bastards as kryptonite is to Superman.
 

bigunreal

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A few days ago, I caught a brief bit of Nancy Grace's coverage of the Duke non-rape scandal. After just a few minutes of watching this absolute cretin, I can say something I never thought I'd say; there is a female celebrity who is more obscene than Oprah Winfrey. Nancy Grace was so over the top with her vicious bias against the Duke players that it really shocked even me. Her producer actually came on with a visual display of the market value of the two players' family homes and their incomes, juxtaposed against the home value and income of the "exotic dancer." Wow- that was real subtle. I'm sure that didn't effect the potential jury pool one bit. Then, when she introduced the head of some conservative student organization at Duke, she let him say about 10 words before exploding into a violent rage against him. He made the mistake of saying he was concerned that two innocent people may have had their lives ruined. This woman is unbelievable, with her Tammy Faye Baker-like hair and makeup, and her angry, contorted expressions almost make her appear to be some kind of animated Pixar figure. Anyhow, with the likes of her, Geraldo and Rita Cosby manning the "news" coverage of this case, I don't expect the public will be hearing the truth about this absurd travesty of justice.
 

bigunreal

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A few other impressions from brief bits of news coverage I saw yesterday. First, Shepherd Smith tried to lamely question the "exotic dancer" and the prosecution, with about as little passion as anyone could muster. This guy, like so many on the "fair and balanced" network, is anything but "conservative" when it comes to blacks. He had a female lawyer on who did a pretty good job of demolishing the prosecution, but the other guest was a sickening white male prosecutor who, like so many stupid white feminist talking heads, declared that "she was raped." Second, Sean Hannity was surprisingly good in questioning the ridiculous rape allegation and the conduct of the prosecutor. One of his guests, typical super-model wannabe Kimberly Guillofoye, went into histrionics in defending the black stripper. She kept saying, "she was a veteran who served her country." Hannity gently reminded her that she also had committed grand larceny (she stole a car a few years back and then tried to run over a deputy), but this vacuous bimbo just kept repeating the "served her country" mantra like a robot. There was also a female Fox reporter on (sorry, can't remember her name) who was very, very good. She corrected the Kimberly airhead several times, making a lot of good points in the process. Third, ESPN had a brief segment on "Cold Pizza" about this case, with their two white geezer talking heads, Woody Paige and Skip Bayless. These clowns take turns on being the most obnoxious. There is no way to figure out who is going to handed the most unreasonable position to take when they "debate" an issue. This time, Woody was the idiotic defender of the stripper. He said that all the players deserved to be suspended, and that the university was right to cancel the lacrosse season. He didn't seem to care that the players might be innocent. All in all, the media is doing an amazing job of treating the black stripper's fairy tale with respect. In Don King's America, we really can't expect anything else from our vaunted "journalists."
 

Jimmy Chitwood

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it just keeps getting weirder and weirder, as second stripper sees dollar signs and changes her story...link

excerpts:

2nd stripper now believes accuser's story
Roberts initially had doubts; defense attorneys question her motivation

DURHAM, N.C. - At first, a stripper who performed at a Duke University lacrosse team party doubted the story of a colleague who told police she was dragged into a bathroom and raped.

Now, Kim Roberts isn't so sure.

"I was not in the bathroom when it happened, so I can't say a rape occurred â€â€￾ and I never will," Roberts told The Associated Press on Thursday in her first on-the-record interview. But after watching defense attorneys release photos of the accuser, and upset by the leaking of both dancers' criminal pasts, she said she has to "wonder about their character."

"In all honesty, I think they're guilty," she said. "And I can't say which ones are guilty ... but somebody did something besides underage drinking. That's my honest-to-God impression."

The attorneys claim Roberts at first told a member of the defense team that she did not believe the accuser's allegations. They say she has changed her story to gain favorable treatment in a criminal case against her. They note she also e-mailed a New York public relations firm, asking in her letter for advice on "how to spin this to my advantage."

"We believe ... her story has been motivated by her own self-interest," said attorney Bill Thomas, who represents one of the uncharged players. "I think that a jury will ultimately have to decide the question of her credibility."

Roberts, 31, was arrested on March 22 â€â€￾ eight days after the party â€â€￾ on a probation violation from a 2001 conviction for embezzling $25,000 from a photofinishing company in Durham where she was a payroll specialist, according to documents obtained by the AP.

On Monday, the same day a grand jury indicted lacrosse players Reade Seligmann and Collin Finnerty, a judge agreed to a change so that Roberts would no longer have to pay a 15 percent fee to a bonding agent. District Attorney Mike Nifong signed a document saying he would not oppose the change.

"It seems she is receiving very favorable financial treatment for what she is now saying," Thomas said.

Mark Simeon, Roberts' attorney, said the bond conditions were changed because Roberts is not considered a flight risk. Nifong, who hasn't spoken with reporters about the case in weeks, didn't return a call seeking comment.

Also Thursday, 5W Public Relations, a New York firm that specializes in "crisis communication," distributed an e-mail signed "The 2nd Dancer," and Roberts confirmed she sent it after learning the AP knew her identity.

"I've found myself in the center of one of the biggest stories in the country," she wrote. "I'm worried about letting this opportunity pass me by without making the best of it and was wondering if you had any advice as to how to spin this to my advantage."

Ronn Torossian, 5W's president, said he replied, but got no response.

"If this person is indeed who they say they are, I would be happy to speak with her," said Torossian, whose firm has represented the likes of Sean "Diddy" Combs, Ice Cube and Lil' Kim.

Roberts, like the accuser a divorced single mother who is black, took umbrage at the notion that she should not try to make something out of her experience. She's worried that once her name and criminal record are public, no one will want to hire her.

"Why shouldn't I profit from it?" she asked. "I didn't ask to be in this position ... I would like to feed my daughter."

"If the boys are innocent, sorry fellas," she said. "Sorry you had to go through this."

"Don't forget that they called me a damn ******," she said. "She (the accuser) was passed out in the car. She doesn't know what she was called. I was called that. I can never forget that."
 

bigunreal

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How many times do we have to be slapped in the face before we understand the reality that is now Don King's America? The world has truly been turned on its head; black strippers, both with criminal backgrounds, concoct a belated, contradictory allegation against a group of white athletes who come from respectable families, and they are believed by many educated persons. The strippers, both with serious crimes in their recent past (larceny, embezzlement) are not said to have "criminal" pasts, while several players are alleged to have "criminal" backgrounds. The only incident ever mentioned in the rabidly anti-player press is a rather mild assault on a gay man by one of the accused. Folks, this is a draw-the-line-in-the-sand kind of incident. If these kids are convicted of anything, then no white person in America is safe from completely fraudulent allegations in the future. If we can't depend on the system to ferret out ignorant, nonsensical claims like this, then we all potentially face angry, unreasoning black jurors in the future for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If having the kind of time-stamped records at least one of the accused has doesn't immediately exonerate someone, then evidence just no longer matters. After all, what is important is that one of the drunken, drugged out black strippers with a criminal background alleges she was called a name by the players.
 
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Puerto Rican/Irish mongrel Kimberly Guilfoyle sounds like a real winner on paper:

(from her CourtTV bio):
"Guilfoyle Newsom is committed to volunteerism. She was recently honored by the Little Jim Club of the California Pacific Medical Center for her dedication to raising money for their children's pediatrics programs and was named Outstanding Irish Woman of the Year by the San Francisco Cork Sister City Committee. In addition, Guilfoyle Newsom helps raise funds for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of America, Chicana Latina Foundation, San Francisco Zoo, St. Anthony's Dining Room, St. Boniface School, Tall Ship Semester for Girls, the Peninsula Humane Society and the Northern California Cancer Center. She also played a vital role in fundraising efforts for Continuum, an AIDS Service Organization that provides innovative health care and human services to prevent homelessness and build community amongst participants. Guilfoyle Newsom is a mentor to young, urban high school girls through the GirlSource organization in the Mission District and serves on the advisory board, and also mentors through YWCA for girls ages six through fourteen. Guilfoyle Newsom has regularly served as a panelist at the UCSF Hospital's Young Women's Health Conference in San Francisco. Additionally, she is an active member in the San Francisco Women's Political Caucus, California District Attorneys Association, the American Bar Association and La Raza Lawyers Association."

"La Raza Lawyers Associations"?!? Mexcrement lawyers have an explicitly race-based professional association?

I used to think Whites were third-class citizens in this country; I now WISH we as high as third-class on the racial totem pole.
 
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"In all honesty, I think they're guilty," she said. "And I can't say which ones are guilty ... but somebody did something besides underage drinking. That's my honest-to-God impression."

"Think"? "Can't say"? "Honest-to-God impression"?!? This is criminal case where the futures of several young people hang in the balance, for Pete's sake, not a freakin' job interview at Smoothie King!

I can't decide which is more infuriating: (1) that the brazen wh0re changed her story a full 180 degrees, or (2) that some yiddish editor put the wh0re's words to paper.

The worst of what we have become, as a totalitarian country, is on display here: Black "leaders", the jewsmedia, the government apparatus, and self-hating Whites working lock-step to destroy the lives of a few White men whose only crime is to attend an expensive college.

We hear a lot about "Driving While Black." Well, DWB ain't got nothin' on Living While White!
 

Poacher

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Bonfire of the Vanities anyone? The Great White Defendant is now in the dock and his detractors are legion. These women are obvious frauds who are after money, nothing more.
 

jaxvid

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If I was their lawyer I would tell the judge "Your honor, seriously! why would two white guys rape a black ho' when there is another better white one in the same building? I mean really, what kind of white guy could even get aroused by this witch? She's a slut even by black standards which means she's way too dangerous to have intimate contact with, it's impossible to be drunk enough to not realize what a skank she is and still be conscious. I rest my case."
 
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First I wish to say that I am very happy to find this site. Thank you all. I am an unapologetic Serbian Orthodox Christian and therefore do not agree with every statement here, but it is my belief that if we humiliate each other over that topic (religion) then we will be destroyed. My tribe of the White Race is dying because the three white groups (Serb, Slovene and Croat) of ONE white peoplerefused to recognize the mahommedan disease and instead destroyed each other. But some of us (the very brave Karadjic, et al) realized the true enemy long before 9/11. May we members of the White Race pick up the pieces, and learn to stop devouring our own children. In the end, if white nationalists of all religon/non-religion attack eachother then the true enemies will easily annihilate our race. And that is the goal, make no mistake.


To this case - trust me, Serbs are very accustomed to being wrongfully accused of rape! An entire unit of the Jugoslavian army was targeted during Clinton's evil war on Serbia because pornography was found inthe barracks! That, to the MSM constituted "crimes against women". As to the no doubt innocent Duke boys, I fear they will be thrown to the devils. I read that the athletic director of Syracuse University will not allow any of them to transfer. Even though Syracuse already has a convicted criminal on its sports teams. So already they have suffered terribly. My question is this: why are so many white women eager to utterly humiliate and destroy white men? Do they realize that males of other races will surely have sex with them, but then treat them like filth? Only white males will lay down their very lives to protect white women. When mahommedans (who raped much more often than Serbs or Croats, I assure you) threatened to rape Serbian women, our brave militia men responded with ferocity ; their fury faltered only when NATO attacked the very hearts of ethnic Serbian cities (including on Easter morning). I have yet to see a white female defend these boys on television. Perhaps some of you have, but I have not.


Thank you for the effort that all of you put into here. I believe the vast majority of posters here, whether we always agree or not, are fighting an honourable war against the death of our people. And thank you for allowing me to add my own opinions here.


From an American citizen who loves three beautiful nations, and his people.
 

white lightning

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Welcome to the board.Excellent first post and I think that you will find that most of us here agree more than we disagree.Whites need to take pride in our heritage and culture.We are slowly being wiped off the face of the earth and this has to stop.We need to watch out for each other like all of the other ethnicities do.We can win if we all stick together.

Your point about white women is very true unfortunatley.They need to wake up and quite attacking their own people.They are very weak minded and are vulnerable because of it.
 

Kaptain

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Son of Radovan, I have always been interested in hearing the Serbian story from somebody who really knows. I always have thought that the US media was painting a one-sided view that wasn't close to the truth. If you could post more on that issue in the happy hour section I would love to read it.
 

Poacher

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"Son of Radovan, I have always been interested in hearing the Serbian story from somebody who really knows. I always have thought that the US media was painting a one-sided view that wasn't close to the truth. If you could post more on that issue in the happy hour section I would love to read it."

The U.S. bombed Serbia to enforce multi-culturalism...that is it in a nutshell. A strong Serbian state with a nationalistic leader like Milosevic simply coud not be allowed to exist in the eyes of the one-worlders who run our country. This is the same reason we have been desperately trying to oust the Belarus president Lukashenko. He is a nationalist with strong ties to Putin's Russia. He doesn't allow left-wing, communist agitators to run amok in his country.
 
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I appreciate your observations on the matter Poacher, however I must respectfully disagree with one point - Milosevic was not a strong nationalist leader. Karadzic however is the Yugoslavian nationalist, and is hunted for the very reason you named (actually a number of reasons). Mladic, although far less capable than Karadzic, is also a nationalist and a hero. If Milosevic had been a true nationalist, he would not have signed the Dayton treason ('peace') agreement. He would not have ordered the murder of Arkan. He would not have hesitated committing the entire federal army and air assets in Bosnia-Hercegovina. He would have dispatched strong military units to (Yugoslavian!) Kosovo at the first sign of KLA terrorism, rather than the surgical removal of the individual terrorists (see http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/hayden.htm ).
You are correct that the NATO/American involvement did have a multi-culturist element, and quite a strong one at that. However, Milosevic himself was a leftist, socialist and often opposed the true nationalists ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slobodan_Milosevic ). My only regret in his passing is that he could never be tried by the Yugoslav army and executed for treason. In World War II, Yugoslavian warriors faced worse than in the 1990s-2000s war, yet they did not surrender.

I won't elaborate further in this thread - I'm already off topic, but I will open a new thread in the appropriate place and include my observations and what I have learned from those who suffered, and still suffer, from the civil war.
 

KG2422

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The article in Newseek claims these guys are followed around on campus by "lacrosstitutes". These guys have access to gorgeous women. One underreported side effect of this case is White men across the country will request White strippers from now on.
smiley36.gif
These women have hurt their "sistahs'" livelihood.Edited by: KG2422
 
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KG2422, I also read the Newsweek article, and I was surprised to find that it was about as close to supporting the White guys as you could ever expect from a kosher-Marxist rag.

The "lacrosstitutes" comment was pretty funny, but it underscores the absurdity of the whole situation. If these guys had scores of available hotties at their beck and call, why on earth would they force themselves on a worn-out negress crackhead?

Interesting info about the District Attorney, as well:

Nifong was recently appointed to the D.A. post, after his predecessor got a judicial appointment; he has never won an election. His colleagues say that he has no experience in such a public matter, and he was wrong to speak out so strongly about the case before the initial investigations were completed.

More intriguing is his sudden lack of communication with the defense attorneys; he won't return their calls, even after their repeated efforts to speak with him.

Two weeks ago, Rush Limbaugh suggested that Nifong needed to keep this story alive for 21 days, to assist him in the election primaries. Spot-on prediction, if you ask me.

When the dust settles, the North Carolina State Bar should investigate Nifong's actions and perhaps issue a public reprimand.
 

Don Wassall

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Do you think any of the professional anti-white haters who have led the hysterical witch-hunt against the Duke lacrosse team will apologize when it's finally conclusively exposed as a hoax? I don't either, they're already busy waiting for their next victims.


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2423150


Duke Lacrosse Players Cite Money Dispute
<DIV =bylinetext>ESPN.com news services

<DIV style="FLOAT: right">http://log.go.com/log?srvc=sz&amp;g...;source=ESPN_ROS_146x46_BaseballGetScoresLink


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Several Duke lacrosse players who say they were at a team party the night of the alleged rape of a 27-year-old woman have told ESPN's George Smith that an argument over money and the amount of time two exotic dancers were expected to perform was at the center of a dispute that night.


The players, who agreed to speak with ESPN on the condition their names not be used, also admitted that slurs and bad language were used by some players and the dancers during the argument.


Last week, a grand jury indicted players Reade Seligmann, a sophomore from Essex Fells, N.J., and Collin Finnerty, a sophomore from Garden City, N.Y., on charges of rape, kidnapping and sexual assault.


The woman, an exotic dancer who had been hired to perform at a team party March 13, told police three men raped her in a bathroom of an off-campus house.


The scandal has led Duke to cancel the season and forced coach Mike Pressler's resignation.


The players, who would not go on camera, also would not discuss many details about the case or answer more specific questions about exactly what happened.


But they told ESPN's Smith that not all 47 players were at the party at the time the woman said she was raped; some had already left. The players told Smith they admit it was foolish to have the party, but deny that any rape occurred. They also believe the two students charged so far will not be convicted.


Defense attorneys had no comment on the ESPN story. Neither did Durham district attorney Mike Nifong, who continues to proceed with this case and has said he expects to charge a third person soon.


The father of the accuser, meanwhile, told MSNBC on Tuesday night that his daughter had considered dropping the case, but as of now he says she will go through with it. His name wasn't used so as not to reveal the identity of the accuser.


"She has talked about it," the accuser's father said of dropping the case. "She has talked about it. As a matter of fact, she told me it was getting to be too much on her. She couldn't take it. So far, she's still hanging in there though.


"I'm hoping she will hang in there, but I know it's getting rough on her now. . . . I'm praying and hoping that she don't [drop the case]."


Information from The Associated Press was used in this report
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