DID Gerry Cooney take a dive??

Status
Not open for further replies.
space hillbilly

space hillbilly

Mentor
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
1,432
Location
In the woods at my still.
I was just thinking, did Cooney take a dive in the Holmes fight?
Cooney was just blowing away top fighters, but in the Holmes fight,
he laid back and let Holmes stay in the fight!

The racial overtones for this fight was high........
 
whiteathlete33

whiteathlete33

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
12,669
Location
New Jersey
In my opinion, many of these fights were fixed. Whites were losing at astounding rates. One reason was that these so called "greatest fighter" negroes from earlier years were facing very poor white fighters. There weren't many gyms in white areas to begin with so that talent of white fighters was low.
 
Westside

Westside

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
7,703
Location
So Cal
No way, Cooney just got beat by a better conditioned fighter as well as a HoFer. Cooney came into that fight soft for some reason. He was not tip top. He also had issues with his self esteem as well as drinking problems.

I thought he gave a good account of himself, but the night was Larry's. Cooney should have had a couple of more fights and hired a strength and conditioning coach back then. A missed opportunity. He was a mess after the fight, further doubting himself and hitting the bottle harder than ever. I understand he had a verbally and phyically abusive father, no doubt this caused a once flourishing career to peak in the destruction of one of my favorite fighters in Ken Norton way back in 1981. Its an all time highlight reel of almost killing a man in the ring.

I remember watching that fight with several black friends, needless to say, it was hard watching my negros friends jump up and down with delight. I sat there pissed/sorry for Cooney and left with my tail between my legs, cause I told them all Cooney was going to KO Larry.
 
space hillbilly

space hillbilly

Mentor
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
1,432
Location
In the woods at my still.
whiteathlete33 said:
In my opinion, many of these fights were fixed.  Whites were losing at astounding rates.  One reason was that these so called "greatest fighter" negroes from earlier years were facing very poor white fighters. There weren't many gyms in white areas to begin with so that talent of white fighters was low.
Click to expand...
Right! with so few White fighters,
and the PC's running around, The NAACP looking close,
how would to have looked for maybe two white fighters in a sea of negros
on the top of boxing?

but today, they can't payoff so many easteuros, it would into the billions...
 
space hillbilly

space hillbilly

Mentor
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
1,432
Location
In the woods at my still.
Westside said:
No way, Cooney just got beat by a better conditioned fighter as well as a HoFer. Cooney came into that fight soft for some reason. He was not tip top. He also had issues with his self esteem as well as drinking problems.

I thought he gave a good account of himself, but the night was Larry's. Cooney should have had a couple of more fights and hired a strength and conditioning coach back then. A missed opportunity. He was a mess after the fight, further doubting himself and hitting the bottle harder than ever. I understand he had a verbally and phyically abusive father, no doubt this caused a once flourishing career to peak in the destruction of one of my favorite fighters in Ken Norton way back in 1981. Its an all time highlight reel of almost killing a man in the ring.

I remember watching that fight with several black friends, needless to say, it was hard watching my negros friends jump up and down with delight. I sat there pissed/sorry for Cooney and left with my tail between my legs, cause I told them all Cooney was going to KO Larry.
Click to expand...
Even you said It! "He was soft for some reason!" Can you say payoff! why train hard if your gonna take a dive,
same way with Quarry, Bobick, Bay, Cobb, even the first easteuros like Zolkin and Maskaev.....
 
Westside

Westside

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
7,703
Location
So Cal
Well lost,it appears you believe alot of white fighters are punks, based on your last post, all taking the short money. No, I do not believe Cooney threw the fight against Larry. He just got beat by a better and more professional fighter. Cooney was probably hitting the bottle when he should have been doing road work

I sense a "bigunreal" vibe on the thread you started. I could now say, hey you know what, I think Taylor threw that fight against Frochy, I think Abraham threw that fight against Dirrell. I think Kesseler threw that fight against Ward. I think Hopkins and Jones threw their fights against Calzaghe and so forth.
 
space hillbilly

space hillbilly

Mentor
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
1,432
Location
In the woods at my still.
Westside said:
Well lost,it appears you believe alot of white fighters are punks, based on your last post, all taking the short money. No, I do not believe Cooney threw the fight against Larry. He just got beat by a better and more professional fighter. Cooney was probably hitting the bottle when he should have been doing road work

I sense a "bigunreal" vibe on the thread you started. I could now say, hey you know what, I think Taylor threw that fight against Frochy, I think Abraham threw that fight against Dirrell. I think Kesseler threw that fight against Ward. I think Hopkins and Jones threw their fights against Calzaghe and so forth.
Click to expand...
I know that your saying,
but Cooney was not the "Pope"
he was a man that got hit in the face for money!
and who put dope up his nose.
Quarry said boxing was not about black or white, but green,
they may have been white, but you can see a lot of sale outs around...
 
Westside

Westside

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
7,703
Location
So Cal
Quarry was another fighter who did not reach his true potential due to the bottle. He was a prolific drinker and often came into some of his biggest fights, soft around the belly, especially toward the end. I would not be surprised if he fought with hangovers towards the end of his career. If he had real discipline he would have fought at light heavyweight and gone down as HOFer.
 
white is right

white is right

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
10,036
The President of the US was waiting to call Cooney after he won. There is no way it was fixed. Plus in the past when there was a fix ie Fox-Lamotta the guy taking the dive doesn't take a pounding throughout the fight. Edited by: white is right
 
space hillbilly

space hillbilly

Mentor
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
1,432
Location
In the woods at my still.
Now, not every fight can be said to be fixed,
but when you see white fighters in their the biggest fight comming in overweight, something wrong! when a "flicking" jab from Ali open up a
thrity-two stitch cut over Quarry's eye, somethings wrong! Edited by: lost
 
Westside

Westside

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
7,703
Location
So Cal
I should pm Bigunreal and tell him to get in on this thread. I am sure he has a couple of theories on the history of boxing.
 
space hillbilly

space hillbilly

Mentor
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
1,432
Location
In the woods at my still.
white is right said:
The President of the US was waiting to call Cooney after he won. There is no way it was fixed. Plus in the past when there was a fix ie Fox-Lamotta the guy taking the dive doesn't take a pounding throughout the fight.
Click to expand...
We need to watch out for the media propaganda!
this "the President was waiting to call Cooney" is just media trash,
too build more "white-guilt".........
 
J

jwhite96

Guru
Joined
Dec 11, 2004
Messages
206
I visited Gerry Cooney's training camp for his fight with Holmes. He clearly did not train hard. His 2 managers who clearly knew nothing about boxing were afraid Cooney might get hurt and they might lose the gigantic payday from the Holmes fight.It was nothing like any other boxing training camp I have ever seen. It was obvious his managers didn't care at all if Cooney won. The day I was there Cooney didn't even spar. He just hit the mitts working out with his trainer Victor Valle. When I told my friend about this farce, he said "No wonder he's called "Gentleman Gerry". If Cooney had different management and trained properly, I believe he could have beaten Holmes.
 
space hillbilly

space hillbilly

Mentor
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
1,432
Location
In the woods at my still.
jwhite96 said:
I visited Gerry Cooney's training camp for his fight with Holmes. He clearly did not train hard. His 2 managers who clearly knew nothing about boxing were afraid Cooney might get hurt and they might lose the gigantic payday from the Holmes fight.It was nothing like any other boxing training camp I have ever seen. It was obvious his managers didn't care at all if Cooney won. The day I was there Cooney didn't even spar. He just hit the mitts working out with his trainer Victor Valle. When I told my friend about this farce, he said "No wonder he's called "Gentleman Gerry". If Cooney had different management and trained properly, I believe he could have beaten Holmes.
Click to expand...
Great post jwite96!
smiley32.gif
 
Westside

Westside

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
7,703
Location
So Cal
jwhite96's post pretty much gives the "Clff Notes" reason why sorry for himself Cooney got his ass handed to him that night, after the sixth round. He should be a lesson to all white heavyweight fighters of what not to do, especially if you have talent.
 
white is right

white is right

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
10,036
Cooney's co-managers were called the Whacko Twins by the NYC press . Yes they were former real estate investors who took a flyer on a gangly former golden gloves champion who was a 6'6" 178 pound champion as a teenager. Rappaport was the pitbull who got in shouting matches with the media and tried to play mind games with Holmes at the press conferences. He also had the infamous do it for America line during the fight when it looked like Cooney was fading. Edited by: white is right
 
S

sport historian

Master
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
2,952
Westside said:
No way, Cooney just got beat by a better conditioned fighter as well as a HoFer. Cooney came into that fight soft for some reason. He was not tip top. He also had issues with his self esteem as well as drinking problems.

I thought he gave a good account of himself, but the night was Larry's. Cooney should have had a couple of more fights and hired a strength and conditioning coach back then. A missed opportunity. He was a mess after the fight, further doubting himself and hitting the bottle harder than ever. I understand he had a verbally and phyically abusive father, no doubt this caused a once flourishing career to peak in the destruction of one of my favorite fighters in Ken Norton way back in 1981. Its an all time highlight reel of almost killing a man in the ring.

I remember watching that fight with several black friends, needless to say, it was hard watching my negros friends jump up and down with delight. I sat there pissed/sorry for Cooney and left with my tail between my legs, cause I told them all Cooney was going to KO Larry.
Click to expand...

Good analysis.
 
Westside

Westside

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
7,703
Location
So Cal
Thanks, coming from a true Sport Historian that means alot in terms of my memory and writing skills. Thanks SH!!!
 
W

ww

Guru
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Messages
422
jwhite96 said:
I visited Gerry Cooney's training camp for his fight with Holmes. He clearly did not train hard. His 2 managers who clearly knew nothing about boxing were afraid Cooney might get hurt and they might lose the gigantic payday from the Holmes fight.It was nothing like any other boxing training camp I have ever seen. It was obvious his managers didn't care at all if Cooney won. The day I was there Cooney didn't even spar. He just hit the mitts working out with his trainer Victor Valle. When I told my friend about this farce, he said "No wonder he's called "Gentleman Gerry". If Cooney had different management and trained properly, I believe he could have beaten Holmes.
Click to expand...

Cooney should have been the champ. He was terribly mismanged, plus by his own admission he didn't train properly or live right. He had fought what, one round in the 2 1/2 years prior to the Holmes fight? And then he didn't fight his fight at all. Instead of going for the KO as he always did he tried to pace himself, and to add to those problems it was aterribly hot night in that outdoor stadium.

There was a black guy on NYC radio at the time, Art Rust Jr. He talked about boxing a lot, which is rare. He was Gerry Cooney's biggest fan. -

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/sports/14rust.htmlEdited by: ww
 
W

ww

Guru
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Messages
422
I looked it up. Cooney had fought less than two rounds - less than four minutes - in the prior two years, having KO'd Lyle and Norton in round one. He had nine KO's in a row - and thenall of a suddenhe turns into aboxer vs. Holmes.
 
space hillbilly

space hillbilly

Mentor
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
1,432
Location
In the woods at my still.
ww said:
I looked it up. Cooney had fought less than two rounds - less than four minutes - in the prior two years, having KO'd Lyle and Norton in round one. He had nine KO's in a row - and then all of a  sudden he turns into a boxer vs. Holmes. 
Click to expand...
Right, and why did he turn into a boxer? remember the white kid that ko'd Kimbo Slice?
he said they asked him not to take Bimbo down! or kick him,

maybe they came to Cooney before the Holmes fight and said "look Gerry,
if you knock Holmes out, the blacks may go crazy! and a lot of people can get hurt".....
 
whiteathlete33

whiteathlete33

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
12,669
Location
New Jersey
lost said:
ww said:
I looked it up. Cooney had fought less than two rounds - less than four minutes - in the prior two years, having KO'd Lyle and Norton in round one. He had nine KO's in a row - and thenall of a suddenhe turns into aboxer vs. Holmes.
Click to expand...
Right, and why did he turn into a boxer? remember the white kid that ko'd Kimbo Slice?

he said they asked him not to take Bimbo down! or kick him,



maybe they came to Cooney before the Holmes fight and said "look Gerry,

if you knock Holmes out, the blacks may go crazy! and a lot of people can get hurt".....
Click to expand...

Yes, but I also read that some whites were threatening Holmes if he wins.
 
S

sport historian

Master
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
2,952
lost said:
ww said:
I looked it up. Cooney had fought less than two rounds - less than four minutes - in the prior two years, having KO'd Lyle and Norton in round one. He had nine KO's in a row - and then all of a  sudden he turns into a boxer vs. Holmes. 
Click to expand...
Right, and why did he turn into a boxer? remember the white kid that ko'd Kimbo Slice?
he said they asked him not to take Bimbo down! or kick him,

maybe they came to Cooney before the Holmes fight and said "look Gerry,
if you knock Holmes out, the blacks may go crazy! and a lot of people can get hurt".....
Click to expand...

Can you name the "they" who told Cooney to take a dive?
 
space hillbilly

space hillbilly

Mentor
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
1,432
Location
In the woods at my still.
sport historian said:
lost said:
ww said:
I looked it up. Cooney had fought less than two rounds - less than four minutes - in the prior two years, having KO'd Lyle and Norton in round one. He had nine KO's in a row - and then all of a  sudden he turns into a boxer vs. Holmes. 
Click to expand...
Right, and why did he turn into a boxer? remember the white kid that ko'd Kimbo Slice?
he said they asked him not to take Bimbo down! or kick him,

maybe they came to Cooney before the Holmes fight and said "look Gerry,
if you knock Holmes out, the blacks may go crazy! and a lot of people can get hurt".....
Click to expand...

Can you name the "they" who told Cooney to take a dive?
Click to expand...
In all
respect, your asking for the cart before the horse,

You reject the evidences, but demand the perpetrater,
because you want to help hide the truth!

and the truth is for over forty years America controled boxing, and back then it was "Don't bet on the white guy", white men can't fight!"

but now boxing is big in Europe, the Germans can outbid the US.
and the great negro fighters are withering away
I may not know the "name", but i have the evidences......
 
W

ww

Guru
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Messages
422
lost said:
ww said:
I looked it up. Cooney had fought less than two rounds - less than four minutes - in the prior two years, having KO'd Lyle and Norton in round one. He had nine KO's in a row - and thenall of a suddenhe turns into aboxer vs. Holmes.
Click to expand...
Right, and why did he turn into a boxer? remember the white kid that ko'd Kimbo Slice?

he said they asked him not to take Bimbo down! or kick him,



maybe they came to Cooney before the Holmes fight and said "look Gerry,

if you knock Holmes out, the blacks may go crazy! and a lot of people can get hurt".....
Click to expand...


Maybe so. I'll have to watch the fight again with an eye to the possibility that Cooney was deliberately holding back. He should have come out winging his devastating left hook as he always did before, but strangely didn't that night.

I hadn't heard that story about Seth Petruzelli before - but I know that Antonio Inoki was told not to take down Cassius Clay in their wrestler-boxer fight years before.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top