Youth football and the caste system: some personal observations

[Awake in America]

I spent all day Saturday evaluating kids for a flag football draft, and a couple of things stood out to me that relate to the subject matter of this board. These were kids in grades K-5, in an affluent suburb that is mostly white. It is competitive, but not insanely so. We play to win, but keep it fun. Two things really got my attention today:

1) The 40 yard dash (or shorter for younger kids) is a very poor way to evaluate talent. The difference between a 4.6 and a 4.7 is very slight when you see them run side by side. The NFL combine fanboys would have us believe that there is some huge difference. By the time you get on pads, run on grass, and/or add in competition, what you see in the 40 becomes almost meaningless. I will get the fastest player in the league tomorrow, but he didn't run the fastest time. Put him head to head against anyone else out there, and he will win, every single time. My way of putting it is "knowing what to do is worth at least .2". We don't often see prospects run against each other in the 40, yet I have never seen a game where there was only one player on the field. The 40 has some value, but it is the most overrated metric out there.

2) These flag football leagues have both boys and girls playing. The player that everyone was talking about was a black girl in the 3rd grade. She should be a 4th grader, but has been held back. She is just shy of her 10th birthday, and is physically as mature as most white girls 4 years older than her. Meaning that she is biologically a woman in the 3rd grade. No exaggeration. Of course she ran one of the faster times, is very tall, and did at least okay on most everything else. I had to talk my fellow coach out of taking her. She cannot follow instructions AT ALL, and will be a one-dimensional player. All he initially saw was "upside", and he was not alone. When I started asking him exactly what we would do with her on offense or defense, he started backtracking. It was amazing. Athletically, she has almost NO upside left. She's practically grown! This all got me thinking ....

This difference in the physical maturation rates of the races is well documented, and is a huge part of the caste system's cover. Kids are sorted for certain sports and positions from a very early age, and those that are more mature at an earlier age have an enormous advantage. If you have a group that matures at an earlier age (and also happens to fall a grade behind in school more often), that group is going to be overrepresented in high school level sports. It's something that literally everyone sees, but most don't really take note of the implications. That sets the table for college, and the rest is so obvious that there's a website devoted to it! It's part of the answer to the question of how a Wes Welker or Jordy Nelson can possibly sneak up on the NFL, with all of their resources and scouting. It should almost never happen. How many other "late bloomers" are out there? My guess is a lot.

Another facet of this that hit me is the timing of when the NFL got so black. In the 40s and 50s, a lot of the white players were coming into the NCAA and/or NFL ranks after spending a few years in the military. I have more than a passing suspicion that those extra couple of years evened things out from a developmental standpoint, much like the missionary work does for BYU's players. As the 60s and 70s came about, those players were no longer getting those extra couple of years in the army, and coaches were no longer parking players at military schools for 13th grade to the extent they once did. The freshman eligibility rule helped those who were already further along, as did the scholarship reductions that came shortly thereafter. Just food for thought.

 

[Carolina Speed]

I spent all day Saturday evaluating kids for a flag football draft, and a couple of things stood out to me that relate to the subject matter of this board. These were kids in grades K-5, in an affluent suburb that is mostly white. It is competitive, but not insanely so. We play to win, but keep it fun. Two things really got my attention today:

1) The 40 yard dash (or shorter for younger kids) is a very poor way to evaluate talent. The difference between a 4.6 and a 4.7 is very slight when you see them run side by side. The NFL combine fanboys would have us believe that there is some huge difference. By the time you get on pads, run on grass, and/or add in competition, what you see in the 40 becomes almost meaningless. I will get the fastest player in the league tomorrow, but he didn't run the fastest time. Put him head to head against anyone else out there, and he will win, every single time. My way of putting it is "knowing what to do is worth at least .2". We don't often see prospects run against each other in the 40, yet I have never seen a game where there was only one player on the field. The 40 has some value, but it is the most overrated metric out there.

2) These flag football leagues have both boys and girls playing. The player that everyone was talking about was a black girl in the 3rd grade. She should be a 4th grader, but has been held back. She is just shy of her 10th birthday, and is physically as mature as most white girls 4 years older than her. Meaning that she is biologically a woman in the 3rd grade. No exaggeration. Of course she ran one of the faster times, is very tall, and did at least okay on most everything else. I had to talk my fellow coach out of taking her. She cannot follow instructions AT ALL, and will be a one-dimensional player. All he initially saw was "upside", and he was not alone. When I started asking him exactly what we would do with her on offense or defense, he started backtracking. It was amazing. Athletically, she has almost NO upside left. She's practically grown! This all got me thinking ....

This difference in the physical maturation rates of the races is well documented, and is a huge part of the caste system's cover. Kids are sorted for certain sports and positions from a very early age, and those that are more mature at an earlier age have an enormous advantage. If you have a group that matures at an earlier age (and also happens to fall a grade behind in school more often), that group is going to be overrepresented in high school level sports. It's something that literally everyone sees, but most don't really take note of the implications. That sets the table for college, and the rest is so obvious that there's a website devoted to it! It's part of the answer to the question of how a Wes Welker or Jordy Nelson can possibly sneak up on the NFL, with all of their resources and scouting. It should almost never happen. How many other "late bloomers" are out there? My guess is a lot.

Another facet of this that hit me is the timing of when the NFL got so black. In the 40s and 50s, a lot of the white players were coming into the NCAA and/or NFL ranks after spending a few years in the military. I have more than a passing suspicion that those extra couple of years evened things out from a developmental standpoint, much like the missionary work does for BYU's players. As the 60s and 70s came about, those players were no longer getting those extra couple of years in the army, and coaches were no longer parking players at military schools for 13th grade to the extent they once did. The freshman eligibility rule helped those who were already further along, as did the scholarship reductions that came shortly thereafter. Just food for thought.

Good post AA, you make some key observations on concerning age, maturity, and 40 times.

I've seen this for years, however, what's sad is it used to be kids were held back for learning issues and many times the kids were black which seemingly made it look as though they matured faster, a theory I'm not convinced of.

Now, what's sad is, it has has been documented that 25% of white America are holding their children, mostly boys back, because they feel it gives their child an advantage both academically and athletically; another theory I happen to disagree with.

This to me is another way of dumbing down our children. When I was growing up, we pushed kids to do better by putting them with better competiton. It was very common when I was in elementary school to see kids moved up because they were bored in their class and were gifted academically, so they would skip 1 to 2 grades.

If you want to make children better, they have to be around better competition, not hold them back.

 

[jaxvid]

I spent all day Saturday evaluating kids for a flag football draft, and a couple of things stood out to me that relate to the subject matter of this board. These were kids in grades K-5, in an affluent suburb that is mostly white. It is competitive, but not insanely so. We play to win, but keep it fun. Two things really got my attention today:

1) The 40 yard dash (or shorter for younger kids) is a very poor way to evaluate talent. The difference between a 4.6 and a 4.7 is very slight when you see them run side by side. The NFL combine fanboys would have us believe that there is some huge difference. By the time you get on pads, run on grass, and/or add in competition, what you see in the 40 becomes almost meaningless. I will get the fastest player in the league tomorrow, but he didn't run the fastest time. Put him head to head against anyone else out there, and he will win, every single time. My way of putting it is "knowing what to do is worth at least .2". We don't often see prospects run against each other in the 40, yet I have never seen a game where there was only one player on the field. The 40 has some value, but it is the most overrated metric out there.

2) These flag football leagues have both boys and girls playing. The player that everyone was talking about was a black girl in the 3rd grade. She should be a 4th grader, but has been held back. She is just shy of her 10th birthday, and is physically as mature as most white girls 4 years older than her. Meaning that she is biologically a woman in the 3rd grade. No exaggeration. Of course she ran one of the faster times, is very tall, and did at least okay on most everything else. I had to talk my fellow coach out of taking her. She cannot follow instructions AT ALL, and will be a one-dimensional player. All he initially saw was "upside", and he was not alone. When I started asking him exactly what we would do with her on offense or defense, he started backtracking. It was amazing. Athletically, she has almost NO upside left. She's practically grown! This all got me thinking ....

This difference in the physical maturation rates of the races is well documented, and is a huge part of the caste system's cover. Kids are sorted for certain sports and positions from a very early age, and those that are more mature at an earlier age have an enormous advantage. If you have a group that matures at an earlier age (and also happens to fall a grade behind in school more often), that group is going to be overrepresented in high school level sports. It's something that literally everyone sees, but most don't really take note of the implications. That sets the table for college, and the rest is so obvious that there's a website devoted to it! It's part of the answer to the question of how a Wes Welker or Jordy Nelson can possibly sneak up on the NFL, with all of their resources and scouting. It should almost never happen. How many other "late bloomers" are out there? My guess is a lot.

Another facet of this that hit me is the timing of when the NFL got so black. In the 40s and 50s, a lot of the white players were coming into the NCAA and/or NFL ranks after spending a few years in the military. I have more than a passing suspicion that those extra couple of years evened things out from a developmental standpoint, much like the missionary work does for BYU's players. As the 60s and 70s came about, those players were no longer getting those extra couple of years in the army, and coaches were no longer parking players at military schools for 13th grade to the extent they once did. The freshman eligibility rule helped those who were already further along, as did the scholarship reductions that came shortly thereafter. Just food for thought.

This is a great post. Most of the high points have been discussed here before but it all bears repeating. The observation of White players having extra time to mature due to military service in the 40-50s and I will add 60's as almost all men were drafted and served some duty in that era, is a very solid point. As is the BYU natural "boost" that results from the missionary requirement.

Another thing to add is that the "selection" process for football players happens earlier and earlier. Kids are started at a young age in organized sports in this era of helicopter parenting so the less mature are more likely to be at a disadvantage. This is HUGE!! Add to it the racial conditioning that Whites are subject to and it is amazing there are any White guys playing pro-football.

This argument can be exactly copied to basketball and in US pro basketball the White american player has almost been completely ethnically cleansed from that game. Especially considering that often "maturity" = height.

 

[Awake in America]

This is a great post. Most of the high points have been discussed here before but it all bears repeating. The observation of White players having extra time to mature due to military service in the 40-50s and I will add 60's as almost all men were drafted and served some duty in that era, is a very solid point. As is the BYU natural "boost" that results from the missionary requirement.

Another thing to add is that the "selection" process for football players happens earlier and earlier. Kids are started at a young age in organized sports in this era of helicopter parenting so the less mature are more likely to be at a disadvantage. This is HUGE!! Add to it the racial conditioning that Whites are subject to and it is amazing there are any White guys playing pro-football.

This argument can be exactly copied to basketball and in US pro basketball the White american player has almost been completely ethnically cleansed from that game. Especially considering that often "maturity" = height.

I think that's why it struck me so pointedly. It's not everyday that you see this stuff unfold before your very eyes with a bunch of 5-10 year olds. Interesting that you bring up how young kids are when they start sports these days. We are having to deal with a competing league this year because some parents wanted a tackle league for their kindergarteners and 1st graders, and we didn't have tackle until 3rd grade. It's gotten very crazy.

 

[Gibbon]

Here's another related topic: exposing white youths to black youths. It can't be beneficial. Particularly if the more physically precocious blacks are among the more skilled on the team. Then it's not just that white kids are being exposed to blacks on equal terms, the blacks are being looked up to (emulated). And this illegitimate prestige of blacks, based exclusively on sporting success, eventually extends into the social environment at the junior and high school level.

Certainly parenting is the decisive and most important factor in a child's development in every instance but these sort of influences can only be negative. I am sure everyone here recoils at that African adage "it takes a village to raise a child" as it seems to justify parental negligence among African Americans but the truth is the larger environment/community is also critically important. There is a reason we move out of blackening neighborhoods, away from blackening schools and, if we are smart, expose ourselves and loved ones to as little mainstream television as possible. It's a shame that while even controlling these other factors, the sporting environment is most likely where our children will be exposed to these more negative "urban" influences even in the whiter communities. And that even if we keep them out of sports, depriving them of all the valuable life lessons it teaches, it nevertheless facilitates the enlarged social importance of otherwise obscure and uninteresting blacks in the other settings our children will inhabit.

From an athletic development perspective (particularly from the psychological perspective) it seems like it also could be stunting. While healthy competition breeds ability, if a child can't experience success because he's playing with children who are more physically mature it's possible that he could be dissuaded from that sport all together. Topics I am sure well covered here already. Haha.

 

[Gibbon]

BTW Great post Awake!

 

[celticdb15]

The best mentality you can instill in a white child these days would be for them to compete no matter what their opponent looks like. If they learn young how to play fast and hard they will be on a much more even playing scale once they get to High School and have matured.

 

[FootballDad]

As a youth coach, I agree completely with your post, Gibbon. If you observe a team that is comprised completely of white players, the self-esteem, and related skill level of the skill-position players is very high. You take these exact same player-types and put them on a mixed roster and they will willingly subjugate themselves to the perceived athletic superiority of the black athletes, even though many times the white player is more skilled.

 

[Awake in America]

Here's another related topic: exposing white youths to black youths. It can't be beneficial. Particularly if the more physically precocious blacks are among the more skilled on the team. Then it's not just that white kids are being exposed to blacks on equal terms, the blacks are being looked up to (emulated). And this illegitimate prestige of blacks, based exclusively on sporting success, eventually extends into the social environment at the junior and high school level.

Certainly parenting is the decisive and most important factor in a child's development in every instance but these sort of influences can only be negative. I am sure everyone here recoils at that African adage "it takes a village to raise a child" as it seems to justify parental negligence among African Americans but the truth is the larger environment/community is also critically important. There is a reason we move out of blackening neighborhoods, away from blackening schools and, if we are smart, expose ourselves and loved ones to as little mainstream television as possible. It's a shame that while even controlling these other factors, the sporting environment is most likely where our children will be exposed to these more negative "urban" influences even in the whiter communities. And that even if we keep them out of sports, depriving them of all the valuable life lessons it teaches, it nevertheless facilitates the enlarged social importance of otherwise obscure and uninteresting blacks in the other settings our children will inhabit.

From an athletic development perspective (particularly from the psychological perspective) it seems like it also could be stunting. While healthy competition breeds ability, if a child can't experience success because he's playing with children who are more physically mature it's possible that he could be dissuaded from that sport all together. Topics I am sure well covered here already. Haha.

That's an interesting topic. We have one black kid on our team, and he is being raised by white foster parents. His attitude stinks (and that will either change, or his conditioning will be outstanding), but he doesn't garner any admiration because he's not that good, and it's just him. The league has only two blacks, and the overall behavior/sportsmanship is very good (as a result?).

My personal experience way back when was that it was ninth grade before we faced all black or majority black football teams, and we had only one black player. We weren't intimidated at all. Things are probably much different now. Around here the white schools beat the black teams at least as much as the other way around, yet the schools that are mixed field virtually all black teams. The white kids at those schools think they can't compete, yet the teams composed 90% of white kids beat their black schoolmates regularly. Maybe the reason is that the mostly white teams haven't been conditioned to think they are inferior. I think another factor is that the white kids at the mixed schools want to get the hell out of there as soon as school is over.

 

[FootballDad]

My personal experience way back when was that it was ninth grade before we faced all black or majority black football teams, and we had only one black player. We weren't intimidated at all. Things are probably much different now. Around here the white schools beat the black teams at least as much as the other way around, yet the schools that are mixed field virtually all black teams. The white kids at those schools think they can't compete, yet the teams composed 90% of white kids beat their black schoolmates regularly. Maybe the reason is that the mostly white teams haven't been conditioned to think they are inferior. I think another factor is that the white kids at the mixed schools want to get the hell out of there as soon as school is over.

From my experience, this is true, but not necessarily because the white kids are totally bowled over by the supa-affletes, but because the coaches are. The coaches and grown men that oversee the programs are true believers in black athletic superiority, thus the white kids are overlooked as starters and must sit behind their betters. This causes many white kids to just say to heck with it and quit. The head coach of my younger son's Pop Warner team recently quipped "if we're kicking off and the other team has a black kid and a white kid as returners, always kick to the white kid." Considering that he's been highly successful with virtually no black kids for many years, you would think that this makes no sense. But given a choice, he would stock his team with the black kids that his white team routinely pounds every week.

 

[Awake in America]

Thuggish behavior starts early

Just a quick update on flag football: we had a very physical practice this week, and the linemen were beating on each other pretty well. Our toughest player was whipping everyone to the point where the others were trying to get away from him. He was having and winning a particularly rough battle with the one black kid on our team. After practice the black kid got a running start and hit the other kid in the back. I didn't see it, as I was putting equipment in the car, but the head coach did, and he intervened. These kids are not even 11 yet, but the behavior is already ingrained. An after practice cheap shot on a teammate. Just unbelievable. Meanwhile, I wouldn't want to be the black kid at the next practice. He's going to be black and blue.

 

[Gibbon]

Awake, your anecdote resonates with me. They are not always the easiest to get along with in a team setting. Having played some football growing up (fortunately Hockey and Lacrosse were my two big sports), you notice that many of the black kids (not all), quickly loose interest if they are not a featured part of the offense/defense.

In fact, I would go as far as to say that some portion of the preferential treatment that coaches show toward young black athletes is done in order to appease otherwise rebellious and corrosive elements on the team .i.e. these blacks will grow disinterested and disruptive if they are not the star.

Of course, encouraging or refusing to punish/correct destructive, egocentric behavior on a team only erodes the team's overall cohesiveness. These coaches would be wiser to consider where appeasing barbarians got Rome and then simply kick some of these kids off. Is this an angle that has been discussed here at CF?

 

[Lab Man]

A good thread showing the intelligence of folks who post here!,a disturbing trend that I have seen in youth football and baseball is the playing of rap music through the p/a systems in all White upscale areas,much of it happens when there is not a black fan or player to be found!,why do these White organizers allow this to happen?,maybe they want to show through "music"selection that they are not racist,or are they getting pressure from somewhere?,in any event are they not smart enough to know that rap messages are seeping into the minds of players and female cheerleaders as young as 7 years old?.

 

[Awake in America]

A good thread showing the intelligence of folks who post here!,a disturbing trend that I have seen in youth football and baseball is the playing of rap music through the p/a systems in all White upscale areas,much of it happens when there is not a black fan or player to be found!,why do these White organizers allow this to happen?,maybe they want to show through "music"selection that they are not racist,or are they getting pressure from somewhere?,in any event are they not smart enough to know that rap messages are seeping into the minds of players and female cheerleaders as young as 7 years old?.

I have to admit that we are a little guilty of that. We begin warming up with "All I Do is Win" playing, which is a rap song, then go with a heavy metal lineup after that. A little music helps at 7:30 in the morning. I did enjoy seeing my old high school hit the field to Guns N Roses and Metallica a couple of weeks ago. I think that part of the reason I liked that so much is that I know that music irritates a certain segment of the population. I think rap gets played at youth events because that's what gets played at college and pro events.

 

[Awake in America]

Awake, your anecdote resonates with me. They are not always the easiest to get along with in a team setting. Having played some football growing up (fortunately Hockey and Lacrosse were my two big sports), you notice that many of the black kids (not all), quickly loose interest if they are not a featured part of the offense/defense.

In fact, I would go as far as to say that some portion of the preferential treatment that coaches show toward young black athletes is done in order to appease otherwise rebellious and corrosive elements on the team .i.e. these blacks will grow disinterested and disruptive if they are not the star.

Of course, encouraging or refusing to punish/correct destructive, egocentric behavior on a team only erodes the team's overall cohesiveness. These coaches would be wiser to consider where appeasing barbarians got Rome and then simply kick some of these kids off. Is this an angle that has been discussed here at CF?

The little bit that I have seen of this dynamic is complicated. The black kids are more problematic on average by far, and a white coach is likely to give them more chances/leniency; which means he/she will also have to give the white players more leniency to be fair. I manipulated my head coach into not drafting a black girl despite her "upside" because I could see trouble from a mile away. She has been held back at least once, and is as dumb as a hammer, but can run straight ahead very fast for her grade. I saw lots of practice time devoted to her, with little in the way of results. We already have this with the black kid we did draft, and I have to tell my own son to stop trying to coach him up at practice. Thankfully, the kid's foster dad helps us, and will work with him.

You get some black kid on your team who has no father, and a momma who does the bare minimum (if that) of parenting, and you want to "help" in some way, if for no other reason than maybe instilling something good in the kid that will stick so that he doesn't grow up to rob, rape and murder. The problem is that you really can't do much. The impact a coach will have in that situation is limited, substitute parenting goes beyond the role of sports coach, and there is only so much that can be done anyway due to nature. This happens all the way up the chain. Life is not The Blind Side. See Mark Richt at Georgia for the ultimate example. He really thinks he's saving those thugs, and bringing them to Jesus. At some point he is cheating the good citizens because of the time, effort, and good will expended on the bad. He also erodes his team's cohesion because he thinks that he can recruit thugs and change them. There's a fair amount of ego involved in being a do-gooder.

 

[white is right]

From my experience, this is true, but not necessarily because the white kids are totally bowled over by the supa-affletes, but because the coaches are. The coaches and grown men that oversee the programs are true believers in black athletic superiority, thus the white kids are overlooked as starters and must sit behind their betters. This causes many white kids to just say to heck with it and quit. The head coach of my younger son's Pop Warner team recently quipped "if we're kicking off and the other team has a black kid and a white kid as returners, always kick to the white kid." Considering that he's been highly successful with virtually no black kids for many years, you would think that this makes no sense. But given a choice, he would stock his team with the black kids that his white team routinely pounds every week.

OMG so pathetically true. I think so many coaches and parents are pathetic stereotypers try and compensate for their failings with the next generation. I too have noticed that in schools with a decent sized Black population that football and basketball teams become heavily Black and only wiggers or elite talented players try out or make teams. This was in Toronto which has virtually no Black people, I think they are about 5 percent of the population.

 

[Awake in America]

OMG so pathetically true. I think so many coaches and parents are pathetic stereotypers try and compensate for their failings with the next generation. I too have noticed that in schools with a decent sized Black population that football and basketball teams become heavily Black and only wiggers or elite talented players try out or make teams. This was in Toronto which has virtually no Black people, I think they are about 5 percent of the population.

I think another factor is that when a school has a decent sized Black population, that school invariably becomes a cesspool, and the white kids want to get the hell out of there the second the bell rings. I had a next door neighbor move in whose daughter was a pretty good volleyball player at her previous school. While her new school was about 55% white, the sports teams were and are coal black. One day of practice was all it took. No way, get out of there as early in the day as the law will allow. She wasn't a star, but good enough to be a solid contributor. She didn't want to be a token, didn't want to deal with the racial crap, and didn't want to be on campus after hours. Sad. She ended up changing schools mid-year anyway.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

OMG so pathetically true. I think so many coaches and parents are pathetic stereotypers try and compensate for their failings with the next generation. I too have noticed that in schools with a decent sized Black population that football and basketball teams become heavily Black and only wiggers or elite talented players try out or make teams. This was in Toronto which has virtually no Black people, I think they are about 5 percent of the population.

Exactly. In these youth leagues, the vast majority of White coaches are DWFs who buy the caste system fallacy 100%.

If your kid draws a colored coach, forget it! :mmph: You can bet the farm on a black quarterback starting at QB & afroletes at RB & WRs. Colonel Reb wisely stated that whenever they get even a tad bit of authority, they're bound to abuse it.

 

[jerseypinebarrens]

before this h.s. football season, I happened to come across a radio station in central jersey that was broadcasting a show about the upcoming football season. The coaches were ranking the local teams. It seems like there were players that were bouncing around to different teams from other teams they played at the year before. I could tell by there names what there ethnicity was. So these schools would recruit these kids and the local kid would end up not playing. These coaches were absolutely oblivious to what they were doing. Kind of like that idiot Hurley in Jersey City.