U.S. national team

Discussion in 'Soccer' started by Jimmy Chitwood, Sep 8, 2005.

  1. Jimmy Chitwood

    Jimmy Chitwood Hall of Famer

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    last night, the Americans took on Guatemala in a throw-away game, with the U.S. already having qualified for World Cup 2006 with a 2-0 win over Mexico on Sunday. the U.S. once again fielded a team with only one black starter, forward jeff cunningham. the game ended in a 0-0 draw.


    it's interesting to note, however, that several of the points on this board concerning the selfishness of black athletes were pointed out in cunningham's play by the announcers. he was by far the weak link in the line-up, and the announcers kept talking about his frequent, and repeated, loss of the ball and his refusal to pass. the two best scoring opportunities in the first half resulted in cunningham being set up for almost point-blank shots by his white teammates, with cunningham blowing both chances by shooting WAY off target. once he even hit his own teammate! jeez!


    it was so bad, he was pulled about a third of the way through the second half. he was replaced by the only other black player available, sunshine's favoriteguy eddie johnson. ha! just kidding. johnson managed to make cunningham look impressive. taking poor shot after poor shot, johnson never even looked to set up a teammate. and on the U.S.' best chance of the game, a 3-on-2 break, he was set up for an open-goal header that he missed by about six feet. unbelievable!


    the commentators even pointed out the unselfishness of the two other Americans on the play (white guys Landon Donovan and Taylor Twellman) and how either of them could have taken a good shot, but how impressively unselfish their passing was, leading to johnson's easy scoring opportunity. then, of course, he choked, like he always does in big games. and the announcers were incredibly disappointed. "he should have done much better with that," and so forth. they let him have it with both barrels.
     
  2. Southern Knight

    Southern Knight Guru

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    Caveat: I didn't watch the USA/Guatemala game, so my comments are based solely upon Chitwood's post:



    Okay, so why are Messrs. Cunningham and Johnson allowed to control the
    ball at the offensive end of the pitch? Even if they are
    "superior athletes" -- as they must be, given their natural genetic
    advantage -- why don't they put that athleticism to work at the
    defensive end? I'll tell you why -- 'cause blacks don't block and
    they don't play defense, regardless of the sport. Just think
    about how many high school football teams put the 245# Whites kids on
    the O-line, while the 245# black kids are in the backfield.



    And let me guess -- did the announcers repeatedly refer to Johnson as
    the "heart and soul" of the American squad? Or the "emotional
    leader," whatever the h*ll that means?
     
  3. Jimmy Chitwood

    Jimmy Chitwood Hall of Famer

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    actually, both cunningham and johnson are only marginal players for our beloved American team, with the cutdown date for the final roster still some time away. and the reason for them to be touching the ball is because they are forwards (ie., guys whose job it is to score). however neither did a good job, and both are likely to be trimmed as the cutdown day approaches. in fact, neither would have even played if the game would have mattered. there are numerous white cats who are both more highly skilled, faster, and more athletic, and for the time being, soccer remains possibly the only American sport to allow those attributes.

    as for being "the heart and soul," that was a good one. [​IMG] but, no. neither was referred to in such a way, nor will they be because of their status as second-tier U.S. players.
     
  4. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't follow soccer so I don't know the racial makeup of the U.S. national team, but I'll bet it's not close to being all black. However, ESPN The Magazine this week has an article about the U.S. team that is solely about just two players, and guess what race they are.

    One is Oguchi Onyewu. Here's the capsule description of him from the article: "A 23-year-old physical marvel from Olney, Maryland...He's a homegrown, corn-fed (interesting reverse racial stereotype there), weight-trained soccer player, the kind they didn't used to make here. He's 6'4", 210 pounds, the kind of athlete who used to be abducted by the high school football coach every fall, then turned over the basketball coach."

    The other one is Eddie Johnson: "He's the one who's faster than everyone else -- the one built for the open field and the extra base. . ."

    A racist quote from Johnson is also found: "My friends used to say to me, 'Go kick that ball around with those white boys.' Now they're my number one fans."

    The article is headlined -- "The World Says U.S. Soccer Has Arrived. It's Time For Us to Get On Board." Get on board that Soccer Soul Train everyone. Ah, good old ESPN The Magazine. . .
     
  5. Jimmy Chitwood

    Jimmy Chitwood Hall of Famer

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    Onyewu is actually a class act from the handful of times i've heard him speak and watched him handle himself during interviews. if all black athletes were like him, there would be a whole lot fewer issues with them.

    Johnson, on the other hand, is one of the biggest chokers in the history of American sport. he disappears during every big match and only puts up his numbers against the lower-tier teams the U.S. plays. As for his speed, there is another black player (DaMarcus Beasley) and several white players (Landon Donovan, Josh Wolff, Ben Olsen, Clint Mathis, among others) on the team who are regarded as faster than he is.
     
  6. guest301

    guest301 Hall of Famer

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    Defenseman "Frankie Hejduk" has been described by announcers as having "world class speed" too. For ESPN the magazine to insist automatically that EJ was the fastest player on the team is ridiculous to anybody that follows soccer. I will take Landon Donovan, Josh Wolff and Hejduk in a sprint over EJ anyday.
     
  7. Jimmy Chitwood

    Jimmy Chitwood Hall of Famer

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    it's funny how ESPN the Mag or the tv network or a U.S. soccer commercial always makes sure to include a handful of black players in any on-air time. even though, in actuality there are only two black dudes who play much: Beasley and Onyewu. and going out of their way to talk about johnson is a joke!

    it's nice that you mentioned Hejduk, because his story is incredible. too bad he doesn't get more pub, especially with his speed. but of course that would be forbidden.
     
  8. Jimmy Chitwood

    Jimmy Chitwood Hall of Famer

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    the U.S. won comfortably, 3-2, over a swift Japanese team as they continue to look at players to make the final World Cup team roster. don't be concerned with the score, Japan scored one meaningless goal late against a bunch of young Amercians who were getting their first taste of international experience.

    the good guys fielded a starting 11 with 10 whites and just one black player-aging but solid veteran eddie pope.

    after a ragged first five minutes, the U.S. dominated the next 60 minutes of play led by yet another outstanding performance by Taylor Twellman. Twellman assisted on the first two goals and scored the third as he looks to earn the starting forward spot opposite Brian McBride. that makes 4 goals and 2 assists in his last two games for Taylor. pope showed he still has some gas left as he pushed forward to score an easy goal off Twellman's first assist. (pope may make the roster as a back-up defender.)

    for caste puproses, the only negative issue was the analysts insistence that eddie johnson should start across from McBride despite Twellmans stellar play and the speedy Josh Wolff's presence. when johnson was inserted for Wolff, the announcer who's name escapes me at the moment, started slobbering all over his knob. (for the record, johnson promptly did nothing in the match.) he insited that Twellman and McBride were too similar in style for them to be successful. by similar, i guess he means too amazingly gifted at scoring goals and setting up teammates. now granted McBride isn't a speed demon. he's a physically imposing attacker who dominates in the air. but other than their knack for scoring goals, how he is similar to Twellman eludes me. oh, wait! i forgot. they are both white. that explains why Twellman can't run.

    sorry. wrong answer. clint dempsey also had a very good game for Uncle Sam.
     
  9. guest301

    guest301 Hall of Famer

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    Jimmy..I think the announcer you were referring too was color analyst Marcelo Balboa(former USA defenseman)> I understand his reasoning to a degree..It is nice too have two different kind of forwards..one that is good in the air and on set plays with his back to the goal and the other one who is speedy and can take on defenders one on one...The jury is out on whether EJ is that guy..I think Wolff and even Landon Donovan(making the switch to forward) could be a good fit too. Twellman is playing wonderful and should at least make the team.
     
  10. Jimmy Chitwood

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    i think you are correct about the announcer. and you are spot on about the one big, one fast usual pairing of forwards. and i also would like to Landon play up and see if he could handle the burden at forward. however, i have watched Twellman for some time, and it seems he is not much of an aerial player but creates more of his scoring chances off the dribble. while not as fleet as Donovan, Hejduk, Beasley, or Wolff, i feel he is plenty fast enough. and he is a phenomenal passer at the front.

    i just think that pairing him up front with McBride should be considered, at least. and if not him, pretty much anyone but johnson. eddie sucks harder than an Oreck Vacuum. he freaks out and chokes in the big games, and they don't get bigger than the World Cup.
     
  11. guest301

    guest301 Hall of Famer

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    I am glad somebody else thinks that Landon can be a effective striker. The U.S. is so deep at the midfield position with Reyna, O'brian, Armas, Mastreoni(spelling),Beasley, Eddie Lewis, and others that I think we could afford the switch over of Landon. There are few game-changing players in soccer, Landon is one of them.
     
  12. Jimmy Chitwood

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    with all the midfield talent Uncle Sam has, you didn't mention Clint Dempsey. he has been playing outstanding football as of late, and he is also blessed with very good pace.

    you are absolutely right about Landon. he is perhaps America's only special talent, and i mean special in the world's-best player sense. he has the ability, i think, to elevate his game to that level if he stays healthy. think Zidane or Bergkamp (who was my first favorite player, btw.).
     
  13. guest301

    guest301 Hall of Famer

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    Dempsey and Pat Noonan were the names I was scratching my head looking for in my previous post on the american midfield. Bruce Arena seems to be giving the both of them alot of time lately. I hope Eddie Lewis gets the starting nod, I like his pace and crosses to the middle of the field. I also liked Dennis Bergkamp alot and Christian Veiri(Italy). Michael Owen(britian) may be the best player I have ever seen when on his game. Pele was before my time and I don't know if the hype for him was deserved or not.
     
  14. guest301

    guest301 Hall of Famer

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    The US won a exhibition match against Poland tonight 1-0. Clint Dempsey had the lone goal and Kasey Keller got the shutout once again for the Americans as they prepare for the greatest sporting event..the World Cup. The game was played during a snow blizzard.
     
  15. guest301

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    The USA team plays powerhouse Germany today in a exhibition game tune-up for the World Cup this summer. The game is on ESPN2 starting at 230. Hope you catch it JimmyChitwood.
     
  16. Jimmy Chitwood

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    Ouch.

    after suffering an embarassing defeat in their last game, Germany put a major whooping on the good ol' USA, 4-1.

    Because of injuries and club commitments, Landon Donovan, Brian McBride, Claudio Reyna, DaMarcus Beasley, Oguchi Onyewu and Eddie Lewis weren't with the U.S. team, so coach Arena went with a bunch of second-team type guys along with three probable World Cup starters, defender Steve Cherundolo, midfielder Pablo Mastroeni, and goalkeeper Kasey Keller.

    Uncle Sam's guys hung with the Germans for a half, and the home fans (it was in Germany) were whistling and booing loudly going into the break. the second half was a different story altogether, however.

    Germany scored off a set piece just 21 seconds into the second half to go up 1-0 (credit halftime sub Bastian Schweinsteiger with the goal), then later they scored three goals in 6 minutes (Oliver Neuville 73rd minute, Miroslav Klose 75th minute, and Michael Ballack 79th minute).

    Germany looked much faster and much bigger than the U.S., and cleanly out-physicalled them badly in the second half. several U.S. players were bleeding and one got knocked out of the game with a concussion.

    for Caste purposes, we sadly played two black dudes, neither of which did anything impressive. eddie johnson, of course, again did nothing against a good team, failing to finish on the one quality chance he had. the other was a guy i do not recall seeing play before, cory gibbs. gibbs is a defender, and he looked okay.

    the best player of the game for our team was Bobby Convey. the Germans had several impressive performances (Klose, Ballack, etc.), but the one that Caste guys might like was the man who scored the first goal of the match. Schweinsteiger came in at the half for the lone black German starter, gerald asamoah, who is the first african of color ever to play for Germany. anyway, the black guy went out, the white guy came in and scored. good times were had by all. [​IMG]
     
  17. guest301

    guest301 Hall of Famer

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    I agree that Bobby Convey had the best game for the Americans and Cory Gibbs is a very solid defender in the back for us(black or not). Germany did out physical us but not too worried about it since it was largely against our second and third team players. Germany's goaltender Oliver Kahn is one intimidating looking goalkeeper and he is the only reason America got ousted in the last world cup when we outplayed them in every other area. Soccer is like hockey, a great goalie and goalkeeper can steal a game you otherwise don't deserve to win. I was also suprised to see Germany start a black player, have never seen that before.
     
  18. Jimmy Chitwood

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    Kahn is arguably the best keeper in the world. personally, i feel he has lost a half step from when he was at his best in the 2002 World Cup (additionally, Kahn won the Golden Boot in that tourney.) has a keeper ever done that before? but you are absolutely correct about the vital nature of goalies. in fact, America over the years has had more world class keepers than any other position.

    as for the black German, he's had 36 caps with 6 goals. so he's a decent player, but we'll see if he is in Germany's future. they look like they have more productive forwards who are younger and better scorers (Kevin Kurányi-35 caps, 14 goals and Lukas Podolski-20 caps, 10 goals) in addition to Klose.Edited by: Jimmy Chitwood
     
  19. Jimmy Chitwood

    Jimmy Chitwood Hall of Famer

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    on an aside: in a huge surprise to most of the world soccer community, it has been announced that Oliver Kahn will not be starting for Germany in goal in this year's World Cup. very interesting... [​IMG]

    now back to our guys: i won't say much about the game, because the U.S. embarassed themselves again in their match on Tuesday, drawing 1-1 with a weak Jamaica team. the U.S. used only its available MLS players and started just one black player (aging but solid defender eddie pope), but still looked very ragged in the first half. both goals were conceded on poor keeper play; with Tony Meola in net for the Americans for some reason (he is waaaay past his prime). but overall, an incredibly ugly display of soccer in the first half.

    in the second half, the U.S. dominated, but they were unable to find the back of the net despite playing most of the half in Jamaica's end of the pitch. Landon Donovan looked very strong, while Albright, Dempsey, and a handful of others showed flashes but no one got the job done. as usual, when inserted eddie johnosn got his weiner stroked by the announcing crew, and also as usual looked incredibly pathetic. however, he is generally regarded as having sewn up a spot on the U.S. team's final World Cup roster, as hard as that is to believe.

    all in all, we looked awful, which is especially fristrating considering how we got smoked by Germany the last time out. yuck!
     
  20. OC football

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    Here is a list of the current starters for team USA.

    White Starters....
    Kassey Keller
    John O'Brian
    Landon Donovan
    Josh Wolff
    Brian McBride

    Black Starters....
    DeMarcus Beasley
    Eddie Pope
    Oguchi Onyewu
    Corry Gibbs

    Hispanic Starters (of any race)...
    Steve Cherundolo (whiteish)
    Cladio Reyna(indian)

    Note: Looks like Clint Dempsey has been demoted in favor of Josh Wolff. Reyna may have suffered an injury that will impede him from competing. Pablo Mastroini from Argentina may have to take his place.

    Bobby Convoy (white) Eddie Johnson (black) and possible Brian Ching (asian) are the only other players who may see any meaningfull playing time.

    Landon Donovan is considered the teams only elite player although McBride is making strides as well as O'Brian.

    5 white starters and 6 ethnic starters (4 black)

    2 wite subs and 3 ethnic subs.

    Source:
    http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=368682&root=wo rldcup&cc=5739
     
  21. OC football

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    I would like to point out that in the 2002 world cup 11 of the sixteen prominant players representing the US where white. That compars with 7 in this cup. It appears that the caste systems next target is soccer. I hope the US looses.
     
  22. OC football

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    Well Gibbs has been replaced by Berhalter. Gibbs will not be on the national team. I guess this means that we will have 8 whites vs. 8 minorities who will be in prominant positions representing the US in the world cup. While Berhalter will likely see little playing time, odds are that Dempsey will now take Gibbs starting spot.
     
  23. OC football

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    Ok guys looks like Reyna is out. Reyna's starting spot will be taken by Pablo Mastroeni. Pablo is origonally from Argentina.

    It appears that coach Arena will now play Convoy in place of the severly injured Gibbs as opposed to Dempsey.

    Dempsey will however still get good playing time. Arena will not have Dempsey play in the backfield.

    So we have for our national team, as of right now. 8 whites and 8 minorities. Although 2 of those minorities are caucasion hispanics. Our starting 11 consists of 6 whites 3 blacks and 2 (whiteish) hispanics. Not that bad.
     
  24. Jimmy Chitwood

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    first of all, OC those starting spots you are talking about have not yet been set for the World Cup. those matches you were looking at were just tune-up games for the national team as the World Cup approached and meant absolutely nothing. the final starting 11 has not yet been announced as far as i know.

    secondly, Claudio Reyna is still with the team, although he and O'Brien have had injury issues in their careers.

    thirdly, i don't know where you are getting your roster numbers. to my knowledge, a team can have 23 members on its World Cup team, as we do. although, it is possible that i'm wrong.

    fourthly, Convey is a midfielder, so he won't replace corey gibbs. gibbs is a defender, and he was replaced by Gregg Berhalter who i like very much. he is very physical in the middle of the defense, is excellent in the air, has a ton of experience, and might be our best one-on-one defender. his only negative is that he's not that fast. all in all, i think it is fortunate for Team USA for gibbs to have gotten hurt.

    finally, where are you getting your racial make-ups of the team? try this thread for some info on some of the guys in question... link

    but to my knowledge, here is the racial breakdown:

    white men: Forwards Brian McBride, Josh Wolff, and Brian Ching (although i still can't believe Taylor Twellman was cut in favor of eddie johnson, and Ching may have some asian or American Indian in him).

    Midfielders Landon Donovan, Bobby Convey, Claudio Reyna, John O'Brien, Clint Dempsey, and Ben Olsen. (this is our strongest unit)

    Defenders Jimmy Conrad, Eddie Lewis, Pablo Mastroeni, Chris Albright, Carlos Bocanegra, Steve Cherundolo, and Gregg Berhalter.

    Goalkeepers Kasey Keller (one of the best in the world) and Marcus Hahnemann.

    only five of the final 23 are black: keeper tim howard, forward eddie johnson, defenders eddie pope and oguchi onyewu, and midfielder damarcus beasley.
     
  25. OC football

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    Well Arena may very well play Convoy at that position even though it is not his strong suit. Although we also have reports that Berhalter will take the place of Gibbs in the backfield.

    I realize that we have 23 guys on the team, however I only counted those who will likely see significant playing time. To me there is no use in discussing bench riders unless there is an injury.

    Reyna could end up starting however this seems unlikely to me since his injurys seem to be chronic.

    I do not consider Brian Ching to be white although I do respect him as a player. As for the hispanic players; they may be considered white or mixed.
     

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