tommy morrison

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by space hillbilly, Feb 19, 2009.

  1. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    Vitali has an 88 percent KO rate. Wladimir has an 84 percent KO rate. How is that boring when they routinely knock their opponents out or at least end it with a TKO.? Ali's KO percentage? 60 percent. Now that's boring. Of course Ali only fought superior opponents as we are constantly told.
     
  2. space hillbilly

    space hillbilly Mentor

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    Morrison had a kill or be killed style, but guess that? he got killed! Tyson had a kill or be killed style, and he also got killed...
     
  3. The Hock

    The Hock Master

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    To hell with the American public, and Joe Sixpack too. Who cares what they think? When they do manage to think.They're just empty headed echoes of the usual suspects in the MSM anyway. I can recognize sterling silver when I see it, and the Klitchkos are the gold standard, (to mix my metals if not my metaphors). I love watching the Klitchkos, and appreciate greatness, which is never boring to me when I see it, unlike some of the boxing tenderfoots and recovering DWFs who have been posting on this thread.

    Tommy Morrison is a mess.Edited by: The Hock
     
  4. Colonel_Reb

    Colonel_Reb Hall of Famer

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    Great post, The Hock! I agree with you that the average US fan isn't going to be doing a lot of thinking on their own. Wlad and Vitali aren't fighting to convince those people, they are fighting to be the best and that is the way they believe they can continue to be the best. That is fine by me.
     
  5. Tired old White

    Tired old White Guru

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    I have had many people they do not like the K boys because they never get hit. I tell them to go watch a tough guy contest if they want to see unskilled brawlers fight.
     
  6. warhawk46

    warhawk46 Guru

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    So you guys would rather not see them maximize their potential? Because their max potential is to KO almost all of the fighters they take on in 2-4 rounds, tops. They are THAT good.<div>
    </div><div>Again, like I have pointed out twice already, Lennox Lewis wore down opponents like the Klit Brothers instead of going all out and knocking them out as soon as he could. This style didn't endear him to fans (outside of England) the same as the Klits are not revered outside of Germany (where they have been based out of) and of course Eastern Europe as well.</div><div>
    </div><div>I see two absolutely DOMINANT physical and technical specimens that need to develop a better killer instinct. You can talk all you want about their KO % but the fact is that a lot of those (outside the customary early KOs when building one's record) are in the late rounds.</div><div>
    </div><div>Because they don't press the action that well, they lack popularity. As I pointed out earlier, Morrison was white and incredibly popular. Tomasz Adamek is Polish but also quite popular. His fights are always well attended here and shown on television. Denis Boytsov will be very popular once he is introduced to US audiences on HBO soon. What do all these fighters have in common? They press the action and try their best.</div><div>
    </div><div>The Klits choose not to maximize their absolute potential and that is the main reason they lack popularity in the US. You guys are in denial if you can't see that. I'm not saying they are two of the greatest heavyweights EVER. They absolutely are! But I want to see them give everything they have.</div><div>
    </div><div>One more point, Wladimer earlier in his career when he did press the action and go for the quick KO, was quite popular. He was routinely featured on HBO and touted as the next big thing. He got press. Perhaps you've forgotten or never watched then.</div><div>
    </div><div>
    </div>
     
  7. snow

    snow Mentor

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    No matter how they fight people are going to criticize. If they koed their opponent in the first 3 rounds every fight dwfs would say "i dont wanna watch the Klitsckhos knock out fat cruiserweights in 20 seconds", even though they loved to see that with Tyson. Morrison wasn't THAT popular compared to someone like Tyson, hell it seemed even Riddick Bowe and Holyfield got more love, and I remember tons of Americans loving Lennox Lewis, especially after he koed Tyson. Yes Wladimir was somewhat popular in his earlier days, but then he punched himself out in a fight, lost and has been crucified for having a "glass chin."

    So what if their knockouts are in the late rounds? Is there a certain round where knockouts don't count anymore? Boxing fans can't sit through a 12 round fight? It doesn't seem to be a problem with the lower divisions with guys like Mayweather. I thought they loved the "sweet science" Like someone said, if you want to see brawling, watch a toughman competition. The brothers put on a boxing clinic every time they fight. If people can't appreciate it then whatever. I want them to win. Becoming brawlers is not the best style for them, they are big guys, did it ever occur to you that is why Lennox Lewis had the same style? Vitali could pull it off at a younger age but it would be too risky to go for the early ko unless there is a clear opening.

    Btw I know boxing "fans" who barely who Tomasz Adamek is. They know of the Arreola fight and maybe the Dawson one. You are talking about fans that payed to watch Benard Hopkins vs Winky Wright, both who have tons of fans in the US, even though they are boring fighters, extremely boring. Hopkins has a weird style and Winky pulls his trunks up to his chest and covers his face up, neither press the action.

    The only consistency about who fans like, is who the media TELLS them to like.

    Edited by: snow
     
  8. Charles Martel

    Charles Martel Hall of Famer

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    What a waste of talent Tommy Morrison and Gerry Cooney were. It seems very stupid for talented boxers to ruin themselves with drugs and alcohol.
     
  9. Liverlips

    Liverlips Hall of Famer

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    Too true. I don't like what Morrison has become though I wish him well.

    People forget that Tommy was really a blown up cruiserweight (6'2, and a blown up 220) but managed to grab a belt despite the size disadvantage he often had.
     
  10. warhawk46

    warhawk46 Guru

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    Morrison wasn't than small for a heavyweight of his era. He was a solid 220 lbs, bigger than Holyfield (another roided up guy). Sure against Lewis he was smaller, but he was about average for the time period he fought.<div>
    </div><div>Lewis did gain popularity after knocking out Tyson; that was the tail end of his career though. He was hardly loved by "tons of Americans" though. For the overwhelming majority he was considered boring and overly cautious. I agree. He had immense physical skills and power to knock anyone out at any time, same as Klitchko. All I want to see if them take the next step and discover a killer instinct and truly prove themselves to be the greatest.</div><div>
    </div><div>People expect the smaller weights to box for twelve rounds. People want heavyweights who knock someone unconscious. And fast.</div><div>
    </div><div>These 'Great White Hopes' such as Morrison and Cooney have disappointed. The people are looking for a white heavyweight champion. Joe Mesi was very popular in the early 2000's; he wasn't a top-level talent though.</div><div>
    </div><div>The biggest drawbacks the Klits face are their style and the fact that they are not American. The right style can overcome their European heritage though. Denis Boytsov will be the guy to win the masses here. Bank on it.</div>
     
  11. space hillbilly

    space hillbilly Mentor

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    Also with so few white heavyweights around in the 80's and 90s, and combined with an ant-white media, pluis a strong jewish influencein the sport, I Believe it all worked together and created a hostile environment for white boxers, and even white fans.

    But now with a crushing number of white fighters from the east,black boxers,the media, and even the powerful jewishbosses arehelplessto hold the color line, so boxinghas becomea lot more favorable for
    white fighters and fans.....
     
  12. Liverlips

    Liverlips Hall of Famer

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    I think for Tommy's style (a banger)he was too small. He started his career at 198 and had a bodybuilder physique rather than a naturally big physique. Though I now recall that in those days cruiser was 190 and Tommy might have had some trouble dropping that much weight.

    Boytsov is talented but is only 6'1, 220. Size may be his downfall.
     
  13. warhawk46

    warhawk46 Guru

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    Yeah, Tommy was a banger. I don't think it was his size but his weak chin that was his downfall though. He had small legs and butt which made it even more impressive how hard hit hit. Because as everyone knows, power is generated through the legs and hips into the upper body.<div>
    </div><div>He had broad shoulders though, seemed like a large bone structure. And he was ripped. Give me that over another fifteen pounds of fat. But you're right, he would be quite small in today's era. Same with Boytsov. He is smaller as you pointed out, but he is ripped and powerful. Tyson was even smaller (height wise at least as he was only 5'10") and was able to hang with larger fighter routinely. He had a great chin though. I think Boytsov has that type of potential, but won't get fire his good (white trainer) and get lazy like Tyson did.</div><div>
    </div><div>Denis Boytsov has the offensive and defensive skills and the chin (it seems) to be able to hang with the best. In fact, he might be the perfect kind of fighter to beat the Klitchkos. It will take a smaller, faster fighter who can weave through the jab and get inside to beat them.</div><div>
    </div><div>I'm just really high on this young fighter. He has power, great hand and footspeed, defense and a variety of effective punches. They sky is the limit for him.</div>
     
  14. space hillbilly

    space hillbilly Mentor

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    Look, for the last time, Boytsov will win no fans in Amercia!!! Because he's not black!
    The media will find something wrong with him, anything wrong with him, and they will blow it out of porportion. Just like they have with theKlitschkos. And its really nit picking!! I mean come on man!
    Do you really buy that s**t that they just don't knock guys out fast enough?
    Ali was very big for a fighter in the 70's and he knocked out few heavyweights, but you didn't hear nothing about him being boring...
     
  15. Charles Martel

    Charles Martel Hall of Famer

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    Ali and Holmes both had to go the distance with many opponents who had previously been KOed several times.

    Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield, Ali, and Holmes all had LOWER KO percentages than the Klitschkos. They keep showing the Tyson KOs on ESPN classic, but the fact is that whenever Tyson was in with a heavyweight with a good chin like Tony Tucker, James Tillis, Mitch Green, or James "Bonecrusher" Smith, his fights went the distance.

    Wlad has stopped a lot of heavyweights who had never been KOed or even down before: Chambers, Thompson, Brock, Chagaev, etc.

    The truth is, no matter what a white heavyweight does, the Jewish Supremacists in the caste sports media (Kellerman, Atlas, Raskin, Bernstein, Farhood, Dettloff, etc) will downplay his achievements. When Wlad KOed Ray Austin and Derick Jefferson in early rounds, they still had nothing good to say about him. When Wlad put on a beautiful boxing display against the then-undefeated Chagaev, and knocked Ruslan down for the first time in his career and later won by stoppage, they had nothing positive to say about him.

    [tube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxWNFBsng1U[/tube]
     
  16. Charles Martel

    Charles Martel Hall of Famer

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    Exactly. Good to see you and some other people who post here are able to understand that.[​IMG]

    Sadly, there's a lot of sheeple out there who swallow all the Jewish Supremacists' negativity about the Klitschkos.

    The Chosen Ones are definitely unhappy about the heavyweight champions being white goyim - in their minds, that's going to give young white kids the idea they may be able to successfully defend themselves against negroes.

    The Klitschkos are classy champions, good role models for our kids. They don't childishly brag about being "the greatest", they don't rape women, they don't use crack, and they don't bite the ears off their opponents!

    But to discredit them, the Chosen Ones keep saying they are boring, or that the only reason they are champions is because the division is weak. After all, they know if they keep repeating those lies often enough, the weaker-minded among us will come to believe them.
     
  17. warhawk46

    warhawk46 Guru

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    Sorry guys, I agree with what a lot of you have to say on these boards about their being a double-standard between blacks and whites and a caste system in place (especially in the NFL) but I don't think you are giving enough credence to why the Klits are not as popular.<div>
    </div><div>Of course part of it is because they are white. That's a given. But it is also because they are not American (and America NEEDS to own the heavyweight championship.) We don't care as much about lower weights. But, to most Americans, we need to own the heavyweight belt bc it is the most prestigious. Americans have an insatiable desire to be the best.</div><div>
    </div><div>Boxing is different than football in a way. Football is a team sport. Although whites are not given a shot to play many positions and are woefully underrepresented, whites still command the most important position: QB. Fans can still cheer for white athletes in the NFL, even if there are not as many.</div><div>
    </div><div>In boxing it is not so. It is an individual sport. And blacks have dominated the heavyweights the last several decades (except the 2000s). It is why the search for the Great White Hope has been popular. Why Gerry Cooney was built up; why Tommy Morrison was very popular: why "Rocky" was such a successful movie. A white AMERICAN (and this is absolutely key) heavyweight champion, as long as he is not entirely boring, will be very popular with the masses.</div><div>
    </div><div>The Klits, despite what you choose to think, do not command the respect of the American public for several reasons:</div><div>1) They are European. This is the most obvious and greatest reason.</div><div>2) They don't press the action and go all-out but usually choose to wear down their opponent over many rounds before KO'ing them. This is highly effective and will keep them from losing for as long as they choose to fight (or until someone strong and fast can work their way inside), but it is not maximizing their potential.</div><div>3) They are white and the PTB and MSM like to downplay white athlete's accomplishments whenever possible. If audiences are told a boxer has many flaws and don't get the opportunity to watch them fight to see for themselves, they really have no chance but to listen. Of course if the Klits fought a more exciting fight, they would stand a better chance to at least get featured on HBO more often. American audiences love a good brawl, but the Klits fight a very European-style: measured, cautious, technical.</div><div>Add to the fact that the K Brothers are such supreme physical specimens, they are very tall (6'6" &amp; 6'7") and ripped to shreds. They are always the larger more athletic man in the ring. That doesn't bode well for the "theory" the MSM likes to throw out that blacks are better physical specimens and athletes.</div><div>
    </div>
     
  18. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    I recently had a conversation with a buddy. He's no DWF, just a pure level headed Polish guy. He said the Klitschcko have no skills. We argued for a bit.
     
  19. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    WA 33 for your friend to say outright state that the Klitschcko Bros have no skills, then I am afraid he is a DWF in Polish level headed sheep's clothing. [​IMG] Wlad's power jab is the best in HW history. Vitali's all around game is amazing for a guy his size.
     
  20. warhawk46

    warhawk46 Guru

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    Wlad was just listed as having the 2nd best jab in heavyweight history, right behind Holmes. Ahead of guys like Liston, Ali, etc etc. Wlad's jab is a knockout punch in itself. Who else can say that?<div>
    </div><div>Plus, both brothers are VERY skilled. Their immense size obviously helps a lot. If they were smaller they might have a little trouble. But they are not, and that cannot be held against them. The Polish guy (and my grandparents came over from Poland) is probably just a die-hard nationalist. He knows Tomasz Adamek will be fighting them soon and wants to build up his figher.</div>
     
  21. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    Both Holmes and Wlad's jabs were great. I will give Wlad the edge, however, due to the power and force behind it. As you stated Warhawk46, Wlad has KO power in his jab.
     
  22. chris371

    chris371 Mentor

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    guys, here in germany the klitschkos have the reputation of ray lewis in the usa. I mean that people use the word "klitschko" as the ultimate bad ass. Its only in the USA that people downplay them. Over here Klitschko is synominous with Ali, Tyson, Darth Vader. They are considered ultimate badasses here.
     
  23. warhawk46

    warhawk46 Guru

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    I know, that is a main point I have been trying to make. The biggest reason they are not popular in the States ( not the only, as I have said their style and their skin color have much to do with it as well) is because they are European. Us Americans have long dominated the heavyweight division and we almost consider it 'our' division. It hurts when we don't own it. Lennox Lewis was very unpopular here as well, so it's not JUST because they are white. Americans love to cheer for their own first. If there is black American, that is even better for the DWFs. But make no mistake, we'd rather have an American period.<div>
    </div><div>Obviously I am generalizing, but a few people on here don't want to admit that being European hurts their popularity here. As I have stated numerous times, it is not the only reason but is surely a big one.</div><div>
    </div><div>They are universally worshipped over in Eastern Europe, as they damn well should be! They are two dominant champions and something like them come along once in a generation. What they are doing will not soon be replicated, if ever!</div>
     
  24. ww

    ww Guru

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    Their skin colour has EVERYTHING to do with it (tho if they were Jewish they'd be the hottest item since Barry f'ing Soetoro!). Can you provide any evidence, any news article, commentary, etc. for your assertion that Lennox Lewis was "unpopular here as well"?



    ww
     
  25. Colonel_Reb

    Colonel_Reb Hall of Famer

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    Great point about Lewis, ww.
     

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