Palmer looks bad on this one. He already has a stable of 1st round picks, pro-bowlers, and big money free agent wide receivers. If he can't work with that, he sucks. He should be concentrating on working with the guys he already has: namely, Matt Jones and Jordan Shipley, two world class athletes in their primes.
Thanks, Carson Palmer
- Thread starter bigunreal
- Start date
- Status
sport historian
Master
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2004
- Messages
- 2,953
white wr said:
This must mean it's 20 percent black.
whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
He's now been signed by the Bengals. Oh great!http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=tsn-terrellowensagreestojoinb20100727
Leonardfan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2006
- Messages
- 23,026
This isn't good for Matt Jones...I hope he catches on somewhere else if/when he gets cut. Hopefully he shows up that hack Antonio Bryant. Jones is still young, he could still make the team, Im not holding my breath but hoping something works out for Matt Jones.
When it comes to white QBs, I'm not singling out Carson Palmer by any means. I've been very critical of Brett Favre on this forum (for a variety of reasons), and thought Peyton Manning should have advocated for his supposed close friend Brandon Stokely more a few years back, when he was phased out of the offense following a huge season, to cite just a few examples.
The Caste System is run and supported almost exclusively by whites. All owners. Virtually all general managers. Most coaches. Most journalists. Most fans. White players are the ones negatively impacted by the Caste System, and it seems to me quite reasonable to suggest that the few established white stars, like Palmer, at least not initiate more discrimination against whites on their own, like Palmer appears to have done by working out regularly with Owens and recommending that the team sign him.
Owens WAS a great receiver. He is 36, and well beyond his prime. If his skills hadn't diminished, I think teams would have been lining up to sign him. I don't agree that Bryant is anything special at all; he was permitted, like all blacks, to linger in the league for years after he fit all the "bust" criteria, and eventually had a single solid but overrated season. Matt Jones will now apparently never be given another chance to play, and Jordan Shipley will not even get the "white" friendly slot positon now. This is an awful move for the Bengals, even leaving aside the racial question. T.O. will do to the locker room what he always does, and when you factor in the presence of Ocho Cinco there, at the same position, you have a real prime time soap opera.
I will always support the white players who are being discriminated against by this absurd system. However, I do not feel any compunction to blindly support every white player in the NFL; in my view the white stars like Manning, Brady, Brees, etc. have benefited enormously from this sport, and are set financially for life, as Jaxvid points out. The least they can do is not voluntarily aid and abet the Caste System.
The Caste System is run and supported almost exclusively by whites. All owners. Virtually all general managers. Most coaches. Most journalists. Most fans. White players are the ones negatively impacted by the Caste System, and it seems to me quite reasonable to suggest that the few established white stars, like Palmer, at least not initiate more discrimination against whites on their own, like Palmer appears to have done by working out regularly with Owens and recommending that the team sign him.
Owens WAS a great receiver. He is 36, and well beyond his prime. If his skills hadn't diminished, I think teams would have been lining up to sign him. I don't agree that Bryant is anything special at all; he was permitted, like all blacks, to linger in the league for years after he fit all the "bust" criteria, and eventually had a single solid but overrated season. Matt Jones will now apparently never be given another chance to play, and Jordan Shipley will not even get the "white" friendly slot positon now. This is an awful move for the Bengals, even leaving aside the racial question. T.O. will do to the locker room what he always does, and when you factor in the presence of Ocho Cinco there, at the same position, you have a real prime time soap opera.
I will always support the white players who are being discriminated against by this absurd system. However, I do not feel any compunction to blindly support every white player in the NFL; in my view the white stars like Manning, Brady, Brees, etc. have benefited enormously from this sport, and are set financially for life, as Jaxvid points out. The least they can do is not voluntarily aid and abet the Caste System.
whiteathlete33 said:
Damn that evil anti-white racist Carson Palmer. Damn him to hell! If it wasn't for him the Bengals would look just like the 1963 Green Bay Packers.
whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
Don Wassall said:
Now we all know Jones won't make the team. The two drama queens will start and Jones will have to find another team to pick him up. Maybe Raheem "The Dream" Morris will give him a role in his terrible offense. Nah, it's probably just a dream I had.
Mighty Joe
Newbie
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2008
- Messages
- 78
Leonardfan said:
The one positive is that Owens is 36 almost 37 by the time the season starts.he must be a short term option at best for the Bengals and at that age his physical abilities have declined quite abit.His signing is an indication if anything of how desperate they are at the position and looking on the bright side if a young player like Jones can impress despite the negativity that surrounds him he may have a place.
bigunreal said:
You arejudgingPalmer's state of mind and motives based on your dislike of the Caste System. Again, as I've asked earlier and the Palmer bashers ignore --What if Carson Palmer, to the best of his ability to judge these things, thinks Terrell Owens might be able to help his team win more games this year? What if he honestly believes Owens is better than Antonio Bryant and his bad knee, and Matt Jones? What if he is oblivious to the Caste System, or, like so many other Whites, believes sports are color blind? You also ignore the fact that he has complimented Matt Jones and Brian Leonard, and has been critical of black teammates and the thuggish atmosphere on the Bengals, because that doesn't fit your rant that Palmer is biased against white players and for black ones. He's been a great role model on a thug team, he deserves praise not condemnation.
You are right about the Caste System being run and supported almost exclusively by Whites (and Jews). But Palmer does not enable it. He is a paid employee, not the GM without portfolio. You can apply the exact same critique to every White athlete in every sport. Should Louis Oosthuizenhave dedicated his British Open win to the White farmers killed in South Africa in recent years? Should Jeremy Wariner have bowed his head and thrust a clenched white fist in the air after he won the 400 meters at the 2004 Olympics? It would have been nice, but was it a realistic expectation?Do you speak out against racial unfairness in your job and profession?
whiteathlete33 said:
There's a good chance Bryant will go on the PUP list or even not make the team because of his knee, so if that's the case Owens is merely replacing fellow drama queen Bryant. If Owens hadn't been signed Jones wasn't in contention for a starting spot anyway; from all indications he won't make the team and it has nothing to do with Carson Palmer and everything to do with the Caste System.
whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
I'm really anxious for training camps to get moving and for the team depth charts to come out. Will Shipley be given a decent amount of playing time in his first season? I'm guessing his competition for the slot will be Andre Caldwell and Jerome Simpson.
Don,
Your point about Louis O. and the British Open is a good one. However, like Palmer, he chose to voluntarily issue a glowing reference to Nelson Mandela in his speech. He didn't have to bemoan what's happening to white farmers, but he also didn't have to mention Mandela, who has no connection to the British Open that I know of. On the other hand, he could easily have thanked Ernie Els, who made it possible for him to become the golfer he is. He would have risked nothing, and leaving all race issues aside, it would have been the right thing to do.
I don't expect any white NFL players to be overtly race conscious, or to post openly on this forum. However, just simply by being fair and reasonable, they could help undermine the Caste System.
Your point about Louis O. and the British Open is a good one. However, like Palmer, he chose to voluntarily issue a glowing reference to Nelson Mandela in his speech. He didn't have to bemoan what's happening to white farmers, but he also didn't have to mention Mandela, who has no connection to the British Open that I know of. On the other hand, he could easily have thanked Ernie Els, who made it possible for him to become the golfer he is. He would have risked nothing, and leaving all race issues aside, it would have been the right thing to do.
I don't expect any white NFL players to be overtly race conscious, or to post openly on this forum. However, just simply by being fair and reasonable, they could help undermine the Caste System.
bigunreal said:
On a scale of 1 to 100, with 100 being most responsible, how do you rank Carson Palmer, Marvin Lewis, and Mike Brown when it comes to the power to determine who makes the Bengals' final roster each year? You tell me your opinion and then I'll tell you mine.
And btw, you didn't answer my question about what you personally do to fight racial unfairness at your job.
DixieDestroyer
Hall of Famer
T-YO is an overrated jabrone & his signing hurts Matt's chances of getting reps. I hope he scrubs out big time.
As for the Bengals roster, I'd say Mike Brown has the most pull, but defers to Lewis, Paul Alexander, Bob Bratkowski & Mike Zimmer on roster cuts & signing. I don't think Palmer has too much "stroke"....as Mike Sheppard & Bratkowski make the initial call on WRs...then Lewis makes his claim & Brown makes the final call.
As for the Bengals roster, I'd say Mike Brown has the most pull, but defers to Lewis, Paul Alexander, Bob Bratkowski & Mike Zimmer on roster cuts & signing. I don't think Palmer has too much "stroke"....as Mike Sheppard & Bratkowski make the initial call on WRs...then Lewis makes his claim & Brown makes the final call.
jaxvid said:
Carson Palmer apparently.
We have been calling for change at CF from the beginning, but my point is that you're firing at the wrong target in Carson Palmer. He's not a culprit, he's not an enabler. He's a very successful football player and an exemplary role model. Focus on the real opponents, this thread is a silly diversion from the real problem.
Don,
Obviously, neither I nor any other average white American can do much of anything to fight discrimination in the work place. However, if I had Palmer's wealth, you can bet I would be much more outspoken about things, including the way blacks are routinely favored over whites for roster spots and playing time in the NFL. I would absolutely never seek out a T.O. to work out with on my own, and then urge the team to sign him.
However, I also don't fawn over and excuse the misbehavior of blacks that I work with. I try to be fair with everyone, but never favor blacks just to score brownie points with uppper management.
I think Brown has the most impact on the makeup of the Bengals' roster, but Lewis has the magical race card, and can trump him if he ever decides to play it. With Brown's clear affinity for "problem" blacks, that probably won't ever be necessary. Palmer would have little or no impact, if he opted to recommend a deserving white player to the team, but his own gullibility can be used by the team, as it was here, to make the signing of a problem child like T.O. more palatable. As Kornheiser and Wilbon stated, Palmer's support was crucial and made the addition of T.O. a "safe" move by the Bengals.
The primary reason even the most race conscious whites don't speak out is because they fear financial ruin for doing so. Palmer, like all established pro athletes, doesn't have to worry about that. Still, I'm not suggesting he do anything like that; on the contrary, as you note, he probably is as in love with "diversity" as any of his white peers. I just don't think he had to do something that resulted in the signing of Owens, which negatively impacted the chances of two of the rare white receivers in the league.
Edited by: bigunreal
Obviously, neither I nor any other average white American can do much of anything to fight discrimination in the work place. However, if I had Palmer's wealth, you can bet I would be much more outspoken about things, including the way blacks are routinely favored over whites for roster spots and playing time in the NFL. I would absolutely never seek out a T.O. to work out with on my own, and then urge the team to sign him.
However, I also don't fawn over and excuse the misbehavior of blacks that I work with. I try to be fair with everyone, but never favor blacks just to score brownie points with uppper management.
I think Brown has the most impact on the makeup of the Bengals' roster, but Lewis has the magical race card, and can trump him if he ever decides to play it. With Brown's clear affinity for "problem" blacks, that probably won't ever be necessary. Palmer would have little or no impact, if he opted to recommend a deserving white player to the team, but his own gullibility can be used by the team, as it was here, to make the signing of a problem child like T.O. more palatable. As Kornheiser and Wilbon stated, Palmer's support was crucial and made the addition of T.O. a "safe" move by the Bengals.
The primary reason even the most race conscious whites don't speak out is because they fear financial ruin for doing so. Palmer, like all established pro athletes, doesn't have to worry about that. Still, I'm not suggesting he do anything like that; on the contrary, as you note, he probably is as in love with "diversity" as any of his white peers. I just don't think he had to do something that resulted in the signing of Owens, which negatively impacted the chances of two of the rare white receivers in the league.
Edited by: bigunreal
bigunreal said:
Thank you for making the point I've beenmakingthis entire thread. You're aiming at the wrong target, singling out a randomwhite athlete -- an athlete who from all indications has always praised both black and white teammates and who has always been a good role model on and off the field -- who has nothing to do with the Caste System instead of the real perpetrators and enablers of the Caste System.
I couldn't disagree with you more about Palmer having less to lose than you. The number one lesson in "Don King's America" is thatno white public figure can mis-speak on race without paying a very very heavy price for the rest of his life. Are you seriously maintaining this isn't the reality?Edited by: Don Wassall
sport historian
Master
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2004
- Messages
- 2,953
Don Wassall said:
Don is right on target as usual.
ToughJ.Riggins
Hall of Famer
Carson Palmer could really risk his reputation, yes, if he wasn't very careful in how he made a point about a superior white player in the NFL being cut in favour of an inferior black, but financially he is already set for life (I think that's what big means). As far as how to speak about unfairness to whites in the workplace at work, where I work there is no need to discuss things because it seems pretty fair to me. I work in a government office (science wise), but the employee base closely reflects the surrounding area demographically. There was a black man hired very soon after me, with similar credentials who I became friends with (he's my only black friend). I found out my grades were very slightly higher than his in college and the college I went to was very similar to his as far as it's prestige. When I left for NJ, he was promoted and took over my spot. Now that I am back at the job they made an agreement between us, that he would go back to his old position, but keep the same pay as me. He is a good man and had no problem with this since we are now on equal pay. Other than this black man I work with, there are only two other minorities in my division and one of them is part white. The demographics pretty closely reflect the surrounding area.
As far as talking about the caste system, I have been un-pc enough on two occasions at work to bring up white players in the NFL being snubbed to two other guys and one of them is my black friend. I convinced both of them that there IS stereotyping in the NFL, but they didn't think it went as far as me. My black friend actually likes Toby Gerhart and thinks he'll do well in the NFL if given a chance. I'm pretty close to this black guy I work with, he's not my best friend, but we've hung out outside of work about 6 times.Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins
As far as talking about the caste system, I have been un-pc enough on two occasions at work to bring up white players in the NFL being snubbed to two other guys and one of them is my black friend. I convinced both of them that there IS stereotyping in the NFL, but they didn't think it went as far as me. My black friend actually likes Toby Gerhart and thinks he'll do well in the NFL if given a chance. I'm pretty close to this black guy I work with, he's not my best friend, but we've hung out outside of work about 6 times.Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins
The media is definitely giving Palmer the "credit" for signing Owens. On "NFL Live" today, both Herman Edwards and Len Pasquarelli said "Carson Palmer wanted him." Edwards, predictably, supported the move, but did make sure to swing the "credit" to Palmer, while Pasquarelli took a much more skeptical (and rational) stance. He strongly questioned the move, and even mentioned Shipley, when he noted that this would only stunt the development of their young receivers.
I honestly don't believe the Bengals would have ever signed Owens, if Palmer had not been working out with him.
I honestly don't believe the Bengals would have ever signed Owens, if Palmer had not been working out with him.
Well Owens has now signed with the Bengals. Just like the script reads. Now two spectacular white recievers will make the team, but only be allowed to cheerlead for two of the most selfish athletes of all time.
As far as Palmer goes, he's no different than the other white QB's who read the script - which is about all of them. IMO though, Palmer went further than he had to by actually working out with Owens. Any smart white man should know that attitudes like Owens are a plague on the team. He also should know that Owens is clearly not what he used to be. Matt Jones and Jordan Shipley will now have to due their years of apprenticeship. It's too bad.
As far as Palmer goes, he's no different than the other white QB's who read the script - which is about all of them. IMO though, Palmer went further than he had to by actually working out with Owens. Any smart white man should know that attitudes like Owens are a plague on the team. He also should know that Owens is clearly not what he used to be. Matt Jones and Jordan Shipley will now have to due their years of apprenticeship. It's too bad.
ToughJ.Riggins
Hall of Famer
KP, I'm not sure Matt Jones will even make the team. If Antonio Bryant is healthy, I believe he makes the team. Then there should be 3 locks to make it. Chad Johnson (I won't give in to his juvenile desire to be called a grammatically incorrect Spanish number lol), T.O and Shipley. If the team keeps 6 WRs instead of 5- and that's an if, the last two spots come down to Matt Jones, Andre Caldwell, Jerome Simpson, and Dezmon Briscoe if I'm not mistaken. In a fair world Matt Jones makes the cut and maybe Briscoe and/or Simpson get practice squaded, but this league isn't fair.
Well I hope Jones doesn't make the team now and some other team picks him up. Making the team now would be career ender. Matt Jones somehow ends up in the worst possible situations - that's why I think he will actually make the team. The script could then read that Matt Jones ended his career with the Bengals, but made no catches and rarely saw the field before he was finally released at the start of the 2011 season.
- Status