Non-white footballers you admire

Discussion in 'Soccer' started by Giles Daldanus, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. Giles Daldanus

    Giles Daldanus Guru

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    I am in agreement that white soccer players are sometimes underrated - for instance, when it comes to aspects like physical strength and endurance. They should always be given their due and not discriminated against (and the same applies to members of all races).
    There could sometimes be a tinge of bitterness because of the above-mentioned reasons (like the underrepresentation of white footballers in certain teams), but are there still some non-white players who you sympathize with or respect due to their skills, sportsmanship and/or other considerations?
     
  2. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    i like players that look like me, players i can identify with
    so obviously i don't like non white players
    and i also don't like whites like ribery, traitors ect

    so i would only admire a non white player because of his skills
    this excludes the africans, and european blacks, because none of them is skilled

    then, there are the brazilians and other south americans
    they have the best players, some of them are non whites
    for example ronaldinho, hulk , ronaldo ect

    ronaldo was the most talented player, and i respect that
    but now we have pato

    i enjoy to see hulk playing, because i like soccer, and hulk plays very well

    but in the future, i would like soccer to be reserved to white people, like it used to be
     
  3. Matra2

    Matra2 Master

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    Suarez for Liverpool and Uruguay. He's probably mixed race - South American Indian and southern European. In addition to his skills he's one of the few players who seems to enjoy being on the pitch, smiling and laughing at times with his teammates. He also plays with passion especially for his country. Having said all that, he behaved rather childishly when he was substituted by Dalglish on Saturday playing Wolves.
     
  4. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

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    They are few and far between. If you are talking about today's players - maybe Tevez from Manchester City (although he is not playing very well this year), maybe Dani Alves from Barcelona, Thiago Silva from AC Milan, pretty good defender. There are some others.
    However - I want all white teams with a specifically white playing style. For me every race has its own playing style and I like our (white) playing style - technical, elegant, with a certain element of chivalry. I find the very presence of nonwhites on the pitch - especially full-blooded Blacks - offensive and anti-estetic. Just the sight of them ruins the esthetic of the game, to say nothing about the playing style and skills. Within the race, different countries have their own styles, but I am all for white European teams playing among themselves and occasionally exchanging players (2 foreign players per team should be OK, as long as they are White).
    Non whites can play in their own countries and develop their own styles I don't care about. We could even (and I'm not sure about this) occasionally play against their teams as a curiosity, but I am absolutely opposed to mixed teams as I am opposed to multiculturalism. Everyone stays in their own countries and continents and do what they want *there*. Just leave us alone to enjoy in *our own* footbal.
     
  5. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    i forgot to say that i really enjoy watching peru play
    they have a white player (pizarro) and they have a lot of fighting spirit
    i like manuel vargas, the "inca warrior" , or el loco
    guerrero is an excellent foward too, very classy
    and they can have a white goal keeper too (butron, jew libman.....)

    i like paraguay also
     
  6. Giles Daldanus

    Giles Daldanus Guru

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    @Frederic, yeah, Brazilian Ronaldo was probably the best player of his generation...Hulk is also quite unconventional when it comes to his approach to the game. It’s a pity that Ronaldinho’s peak was relatively short-lived. I think that some African players like George Weah are quite skillful, but I have always found it surprising that African teams rarely seem to produce quality goalkeepers (as a kid I always thought that they should possess good reflexes and excel in the goalkeeper position). I liked the Thierry Henry of the late 1990s and early 2000s – he was a capable forward and seemed like a very nice guy to me.
    I tend to respect footballers that show true passion for their country and are not naturalized (and also the ones who are willing to represent a “lesser team” even if offered a chance to play for a powerhouse national team – for instance, Benoît Assou-Ekotto decided to don the national colours of Cameroon and refused a call-up to the French side, as he didn’t feel that he could do his best for France). I have a soft spot for the Senegalese side that participated in the 2002 World Cup – I think that they were one of the strongest African sides ever and displayed very good technique and intelligence in their passing game (and I don't remember them being hyped). The Senegal vs. Sweden match (1/8 final of the 2002 World Cup) was probably one of the best national team games I have ever seen at this level (btw, Svensson's astonishing piece of skill at 2.55 deserved to be the golden goal, but it wasn’t meant to be…)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIuiFtIFRLY

    Another memorable match was their 3:3 draw with Uruguay in the group stage.

    @Matra 2, yes, Suarez is a quality player and seems to enjoy his occupation, though he does display a short temper on occasions. The strong willingness to do your best for your country is always admirable. I concur that he will probably be considered mestizo from a racial standpoint.

    @Porthos, indeed, these footballers are all at the top of their game right now.. It would be a pity if distinctive styles of play were lost, but I think that a number of teams will be able to preserve their identities – clubs like Athletic Bilbao, some Eastern Europeans, as well as lower echelon squads in Western Europe come to mind (though homogeneity is less likely to be maintained in the case of national teams). There were recently talks of introducing a 6+5 rule in football, with Sep Blatter being in favour of the idea, but it seems as if it was eventually deemed illegal under EU law.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  7. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    giles
    i never saw weah play, i was too young
    but it's incredible that the most known african players, drogba and etoo, have close to zero skills
    they can't dribble

    i never liked henry thought
    maybe because i understand french, and so i can see how ****y he was
    i think he showed his true colors later in his career, with his hand-ball against ireland, or when he injuried that poor goalkeeper
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UiK7rzGcMA

    for me, he is one of those players that was scoring incredible amounts of goals in premier league (because of weaks defences) and failed to do the same in other conditions

    he failed in italy, failed in barcelona , and has never scored important goals for france in world cup or european champs, except that goal against brasil in 2006

    [video=youtube;rTGfyV_mgUk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTGfyV_mgUk[/video]

    about senegal, they played really wisely in 2002....because they had bruno metsu, the white french coach :wink:


    i enjoyed their victory in 2002 against france because, as always, i hoped a french defeat
    they had a distinctive style, they were refreshing
    but all their players were ligue 1 journeymen players
    the draw senegal-uruguay was really frustrating....because forlan missed a great opportunity, and chengue morales missed an open goal at the end of the match
    strange world cup
    actually, this year, brazil had no contender
     
  8. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    Frederic, I think Henry was together with romario and Ronaldo the best non white soccer players of all time.Allthrough they all 3 are 50% white or so or more.they probably don't have a white parent but are multi generation mixed.I did once a check with the black french players and I was in all correct if they were from american continent or parents from africa...alltrough there are cases of full blooded looking blacks in the american continent of course.

    Pele was said to be great he was nowhere near the best.They say he was the best becuase of his goals, but you have then to look match goal ratio and that is for him like 0.85 when it is from a guy his area Josef bican 1.5!
    Becuase a lot of amateuric in that area it is even better to look at national team performance becuase then you have at least some strong opponents and with pele 0.8 and bican exactly 1.0.Bep bakhuys of holland had even nation team ratio of 1.2 goals a match.


    I my opininion the best allround players in soccer are nearly always white or mixed race just like in decathlon.
     
  9. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    very good post, the pele myth needs to be busted
    also, it's much easier to be one of the best in the world when you play for brazil
    and ronaldo scored more goals than pele in world cups


    romario was a freak, like maradona
    not exactly like ronaldo, who had it all
    ronaldo is the best soccer player , the one that played soccer better
    he is the fenomeno
    [video=youtube;XygxrFKIGUA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XygxrFKIGUA[/video]


    you are also right, henry, ronaldo, romario and even ronaldinho, are far from being 100% black
    rivaldo also
    henry might be part white
    but for ronaldo and ronaldinho,and all the non white brazilians, i think they are mostly indogenous, indian

    i definitely don't agree about henry though
    shearer scored more goals than him in premier league, while playing for a smaller club
    i think he had a playing style that could only work in premier league
    he needed a lot of space, while in the top teams, there is no space
    i give him credit for trying to adapt, and trying to play like a real foward
    maybe he was the best european black, yes
    but he is far behind the brazilians for me
     
  10. Matra2

    Matra2 Master

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    Speaking of semi-non-white players the whole Carlos Tevez affair now ongoing at Man City was almost predictable. Mancini put up with all kinds of crap from him but his recent statement that Tevez can never again play for Man City is welcome. The could see in the press conference that Mancini was almost shaking with anger. I hope the Board of the club allow Mancini to have his way.
     
  11. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    tevez wants to go back to argentina, or to brazil (corinthians) but his agent, Kia Joorabchian, decides for him
    this is modern business....hum, modern soccer :bored:

    he hates england, wanted to go back to his country with his wife and family, that's probably why he did not want to play
     
  12. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    Thanks.

    Thta I see henry as one of the best, espacially of the non full whites is mainly becuase of his premier league years.Spped is probably more important in premier league then in other leagues but it is still a great quality.
    The know the answer to how important it is you can search how much faster pro soccer players are then amateur soccer players on average in sd's compared to other qualitys like reaction time and awareness difference elite and amateur.
    henry is said to run 10.9 meter a second top speed. average amateur can run on average like 8.5, pro league europe like 9.3 maybe a few thenths of meter second higher in highest payed leagues maybe with defenders being the fastest on average, . if defenders would be the same speed as strikers you would see the defenders being much more outrun the you see know.Becuase strikers often are further into ther acceleration when they come to the defender and have also a reaction advantage.If you google brazilian soccer players 30 meter sprint you see defenders being the fastest and midfielders the slowest but good first 10 meters.
    it was average speed form 10 to 30 meters is 8.68 m/s defenders and 8.53 for strikers so ther speed at like 20 meters.this is still accelerating so at full speed the speed difference would be I just guess a bit bigger 9.15 against 9.4 I guess.A bit off topic but it just works a bit on my nerves that I always here commentators say what a fast striker when in fact he is slower then the fast defender.Guardiola said off pato that bolt couldn't stop him.I tought probably yes becuase in this situation he started accelerating between the mid and defenders and came to nearly full speed to the defenders who just started running.According to ask4sports pato reached 9.4 meter a second which is think is slower then average barcelona defenders can probably and i dont know he can barely sub 12 100 m with that with good accelerating most soccer players have)
     
  13. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    I forgot Maradona who is non white but white is the most he got in him.I saw his mother on tv who is full white or close to it and his farther looked mestizo. Maradonna had like 0.48 goals a match and around the same assits so he could be 0.9-1 goal +assits a match.I think henry( 2nd highest assits ratio premier league) , Ronaldo( could be even higher without the injuries maybe),Romario) are all around that too.


    In my country Cruyff 0.57 goals a match is seen as the best when marco van basten had much better statistics 0.79 goals a match in the relativelty modern area.
     
  14. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    interesting
    when you think about it, it makes sense, because defenders are more muscular on average, so they must be faster on the first meters (10-20-30 m)
    i think speed is not THAT important in soccer, maybe the ability to change direction is more important
    pato's turn was really explosive, so quick
    no defender reacted soon enough, and when he was near the defenders, he was at top speed, and the defenders just started moving

    for example, ronaldinho, or hulk, can change direction quickly
    but in premier league, this quality is less important
     
  15. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    right, maradona has a mestizo father and a white mother, from croatia (dalmatia)
    what is incredible about maradona compared to the brazilians, is that he scored this much with a bad argentina team, and he even managed to win a world cup with a bad argentina team, and he won the serie A with naples

    ronaldo was close to 1 goal per match before the injuries
     
  16. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    actually, a foward should never attain top speed, he can do so only if the defense is bad
    on the goal by pato, the middlefielders are sleeping, so pato can accelerate and when he comes near the defenders it's already over
    in the most important matches, you never see goals like this, where the foward is at full speed
    but you see this all the time in premier league
    because the defenders and defensive middlefielders are very bad (black) in premier league
    that's why i don't like this league
     
  17. Matra2

    Matra2 Master

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    You're right about Argentina. I watched every Argentina match of the 1986 World Cup and I agree they were a one man team. Their goalie Pompidou was useless. (Remember in 1990 he let in that goal against Cameroon:icon_redface:?). Burachaga wasn't bad but the rest were very ordinary.
     
  18. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    i don't remeber, actually i never saw it :tongue:
    i googled it, and yes, he had fragile hands :biggrin:
    that's a trange way to spell his name, pompidou is actually a french politician
     
  19. Sky01

    Sky01 Newbie

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    I really admire Seedorf. He was a great passer and had a strong shot. He must be the only great Black creative midfielder. He has always been a class act and has a nice family, unlike the vast majority of bone-headed Black players.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2011
  20. Giles Daldanus

    Giles Daldanus Guru

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    @Frederic, indeed, I was disappointed that Thierry Henry didn't tell the referee that he committed handball in the game against Ireland..I think that he also recently received a red card in a MLS match. His personality may have changed a bit and there could probably be a degree of nervousness, as the years are catching up with him. I agree that while Henry is currently the top scorer for the Fench national side, he hasn't netted many decisive goals. To be honest, the Italian league seems to be quite tough for most non-Italian strikers - for example, forwards like Carsten Jancker and Dennis Bergkamp, who are in my opinion more than capable players, struggled to shine in the Seria A.

    As for Weah, I have only watched some youtube clips of him, so my judgment may not be accurate, but he was a FIFA World Player of the Year.

    Good point regarding the Senegalese side - the Bruno Metsu factor is not to be downplayed, as he is an excellent coach and seems to have a very charismatic personality.

    To stay on topic - I like Tim Howard, because he seems like a down to earth player and always gives his best (especially when playing for the national side). He probably belongs to the upper tier of the Premier League goalies.
     
  21. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    honestly, i didn't expect him or any player to say to the referee that he did a handball
    what annoyed me was how after the match, he sat down next to the irish players... it was so fake.....
    and how he defended himself
    look at the difference between suarez and henry
    after his handball during the match against ghana, suarez said, as a joke, that he did tha save of the year, that his was the best goal keeper in the world:biggrin:
    he never tried to lye

    henry,on the other side, never said that he touched the ball with the hand on purpose
    he said "the ball touched my hand" ..........
    come on! YOU touched the ball! admit it!



    and i can show you a lot of interviews in soccer magazines, that i still have, where he was as ****y as it gets, always talking about how white people didn't like him because he was black ..... since the beginning of his career
    also, he always had white girlfriends or wifes, to my knowledge, even when he was in as monaco
     
  22. Giles Daldanus

    Giles Daldanus Guru

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    I see what you mean....it was a very blatant handball, so for a moment I assumed that he would have second thoughts and bring the matter to the referee's attention, but given that he wasn't the actual goalscorer, I could see why he would be reluctant to speak out (the assistant referee should have paid closer attention and the main official should not have been so quick to award the goal).

    Reminds me a bit of the Zidane-Materazzi altercation. Later Zidane remarked that "I wouldn't have been able to live with myself if I had managed to stay on the pitch after my violent outburst and we won the World Cup" (however, Zidane didn't admit his transgression to the referee in the immediate aftermath of the headbutt).

    As for Henry and the Irish players - indeed, he didn't handle himself very well, though his awkward attempt to ingratiate himself with the Irish footballers was probably an indication that he felt guilty due to the unjust result.

    About Suarez - haha, yeah, it was a witty remark and he tried not to disrespect the Ghanaian players.

    Also, the foul that was awarded to Ghana right before his handball infraction was quite dubious, so one could make the case that "two wrongs made a right" in that case.
     
  23. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    yes, there was absolutely no foul
    i posted the video in the world cup 2010 thread

    but even if the foul was real, suarez had the right to stop the ball with the hand

    suarez knew that he was going to be showed a red card, and that ghana would be awarded a penalty
    he accepted, and he was right, it was worth it, because ghana could miss their penalty, and it's what happened
     
  24. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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  25. Matra2

    Matra2 Master

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    Thierry Henry got another red card yesterday in a crucial match for the NY Red Bulls. Suarez missed a really good chance to score against Man United.

    BTW I wouldn't believe anything Evra says.
     

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