NFL Week 16

Discussion in 'NFL' started by FootballDad, Dec 22, 2013.

  1. jaxvid

    jaxvid Hall of Famer

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    Sorry to cross the president of the Brian Hartline fan club but the leagues I refer to have 10 teams as probably do most FF leagues so that puts him in the middle of the pack. I've already acknowledged he was a good pro receiver but did not seem so hot in some FF football leagues. I'm not picking on him, so instead let me pick on Steve Smith a guy who had a good past history, is the number 1 option on a playoff team, and has as QB the all-time great Can Newton. Now that guy was a disappointment this year!!!
     
  2. PamelaOC

    PamelaOC Banned

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    I heard a couple. Despite basketball being a very black sport, I'd still rather hear that than his usual white-bashing.
     
  3. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    Most leagues are at least 12 teams, and by "middle of the pack" you are actually talking about starting wide receivers for those leagues, not receivers in general. I have to set you straight yet again.

    Incredible that Brian Hartline is being singled out for scrutiny by you and WA33 when he is one of only a very few White receivers in the past 30 years to have multiple thousand yard receiving seasons (if he gets 22 yards next week). Who's next to go under the microscope, Eric Decker? It has nothing to do with being the "president of a fan club," and everything to do with respecting the accomplishments of a White NFL receiver.
     
  4. Leonardfan

    Leonardfan Hall of Famer

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    Not sure why Hartline has become the topic of conversation. He is a very good WR - the fantasy talk is great and all but on the field he performs. The Dolphins had a bad game and they have a big mouthed WR in Mike Wallace who whines when he does not get the ball.

    Foles continues his mastery of running an offense. It was fun watching him leading such a white friendly offense. Chris Collinsworthless is despicable though. Cannot stand him.
     
  5. Ieroner

    Ieroner Newbie

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    If I was an NFL coach and I had the option of choosing between two receivers, both of whom had 1,000 year seasons, but the first one had 3 or 4 games where he was getting 150+ yards and some games where he got zilch, and the other had only two games over 100 yards but steady production throughout all his games, I would choose the latter.

    Consistent dependability would be worth more to me than huge good days and terrible bad days.

    Also, Hartline can only produce as much as Tannehill targets him. Unless Hartline is consistently dropping or missing balls, he's doing the absolute best he can with the targets he gets.

    I think it would be interesting to crunch some numbers on number of targets on the season versus total yards on the season. If two guys both get over 1,000 yards but one is targeted three fourths as much as the other, it's pretty obvious who's the better receiver.
     
  6. jaxvid

    jaxvid Hall of Famer

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    Let me set you straight. In a league with 12 teams there are 2 starting wide receivers, so being 25-30th is actually not middle of the pack but on the back end unless you consider the flex position. I'm talking about the leagues I am in, which are different then the CF league for example, but seeing as they are ESPN leagues, the most popular in the country, then I assume they are more typical.

    I'm not singling him out, his name came up by another poster, and it was something I had noticed too (lackluster FF performance). I have also said he is a very good receiver for real football--so I'm singling him out as a "real good-real football player". I see that is not good enough though so I will bow to your assertion and admit that I unfairly singled out a White receiver for the mildest of criticism. There will be no microscopic treatment for Eric Decker though. He is A-OK in my book.
     
  7. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    Wrong yet again. A 12 team league will have 3 starting WRs, and with a flex, often four. Hartline is a low tier #2 receiver or at worst a #3 receiver, which means he is roughly the 25th best starting wide receiver out of 96 or so in the league. Once again, that is not "middle of the pack" but a desirable receiver to have on a fantasy team. Sorry he is "lackluster" in your eyes and isn't challenging single season receiving records.
     
  8. foobar75

    foobar75 Master

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    SportsCenter appears to have some new feature called "3 Stars of the Night". I believe each of the anchors makes a pick, and the third is America's star of the night thru an online poll. I thought it was worth mentioning that the winners tonight were:

    1. Peyton Manning for breaking the TD record with his 4 TD, 400 yard performance (anchor pick)

    2. Kevin Love for his monster 45 pt, 19 rb, 6 ast game against the Clippers in a losing effort (anchor pick)

    3. Luke Kuechly, for his 24 tackle (wow!), 1 INT game against the Saints (America's pick)

    There you have it, 3 white men, each the best at their position in their respective leagues.
     
  9. Kaptain

    Kaptain Master

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    Speaking of fantasy football and back to back great seasons. Yours truly is once again for the second straight season the CF Riggins league champion by defeating Don's team yesterday. Congratulations to myself.

    I also had the whitest roster.
     
  10. Kaptain

    Kaptain Master

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    Rotocrap on Hartline:

    Hartline turned in a brutal performance as he had three clear-cut drops and posted two grabs on 10 targets. His only real play was a 50-yard bomb from Matt Moore during garbage time. Hartline will take 978 receiving yards into a Week 17 game with the Jets, but he'll break the 1,000 barrier due to volume -- not strong play. He's now averaging 8.0 targets per game.

    Rotocrap on Wallace:

    The Dolphins tried to get Wallace going with screens, quick-hitters and bombs. But with the offensive line unable to give Ryan Tannehill any time at all, 60 Minutes didn't come close to any big plays. Wallace has now been held under 42 receiving yards eight times this season despite averaging 8.1 targets per day. He gets the burnable Jets secondary in Week 17.

    To sum up: Wallace's poor performance is due to a crappy offensive line, while Hartline is just terrible and gets way too many targets despite Wallace getting more targets and doing much less with them.

    Rotocrap on Pierre Garcon:

    The Cowboys had no answer for Garcon as he ran free on quick slants and short crossing routes all day long. And with the highly accurate Kirk Cousins at the helm, Garcon was able to catch passes in stride and make big YAC plays. He now has 107 catches on the year, breaking the Redskins' single-season franchise record set by Art Monk -- who had 106 grabs in 1984. The underrated yet dominant Garcon is going to add to that milestone in the Week 17 finale against the Giants.

    Mr."underrated yet dominant" leads the lead in targets with 174 and has only five tds. This is Garcon's first 1,000 yard season - due to volume not - not strong play. He's stands at 9 overall in yardage. Hartline stats, on the other hand, are right in line with his targets. He is 20th overall in yardage and 18th overall in targets. Garcon is considered the number one option on his team while Hartline is considered the #2 option. What would Hartline have done with 174 targets?



     
  11. Kaptain

    Kaptain Master

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    Jordy Nelson is 13th in yardage, 16th overall in TDs (8), but 27th overall in targets. Criminally underused for a number one premier receiver who has played every single game this year.
     
  12. Thrashen

    Thrashen Hall of Famer

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    Some interesting playoff developments that helped our cause on Sunday…

    1) New England, the NFL’s most white-friendly squad, finally qualified for the playoffs and essentially eliminated the Ravens from wild card contention. With a win next week against lowly Buffalo, they would clinch a much-need first round bye.f

    2) Ater a great win against an ultra-dark Bears team, the Eagles, the NFL’s second most white-friendly club, simply need to defeat the up-and-down Cowboys to earn a playoff spot. If the Cowboys manage to defeat the Eagles, it would be a disappointment, but Dallas also has some interesting white players of note (Witten, Beasley, Lee, Hayden, Heath, etc).

    3) The Eagles’ throttling of the Bears also kept the Packers’ (the NFL’s next most white-friendly squad) playoff hopes alive. With Rodgers likely to return against the Bears, one could certainly envision Jordy Nelson (once on pace for greatness before Rodgers’ injury) shining brightly against an awful Bears defense. With Rodgers in the lineup, Green Bay could easily defeat anyone in the NFC playoffs.

    4) With a win against the perma-wretched Raiders, the Chargers (who have several white players of note –Woodhead, Phillips, Lissemore, Bird, Gachkar, Keiser, Weddle, etc) will clinch a playoff berth with losses by Baltimore and Miami.

    5) The Colts, another playoff-bound team, finally began utilizing WR Griff Whalen. Should this continue in the playoffs, this squad would become far more palatable.

    6) A rare home loss by Plantation Pete’s contemptible Seahawks club was a pleasant development, as it will provide incoming NFC playoff opponents with the confidence to know that this team can lose in the presence of their “12[SUP]th[/SUP] Wigger” cheerleading squad. An early playoff exit would be a heinous embarrassment Wigger Pete, Russell Wilson, and The Caste System. It was nice to see these DWF losers in pain...

    [​IMG]

    Aside from the playoff scenarios, it seems as though 4-5 white players will eclipse 1,000 receiving yards this season.Aside from Nelson and Decker, Edelman and Hartline are each 1-2 catches away and Jordan Cameron will need 150 receiving yards in the final week.It’s disappointing, as countless other players (Cooper, Gronkowski, Welker, Olsen, Amendola, Witten, etc) could’ve easily accomplished the same if not for injuries and/or underutilization.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013
  13. jaxvid

    jaxvid Hall of Famer

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    And you are wrong about my being wrong, yet again. You have the accuracy of Geno Smith. Almost all FF leagues start 2 WR's, not 3, I don't know what planet you play FF on. And the flex can be anything from a RB to a TE so that further dilutes the need for receivers. There are about 24 guys that will be needed at minimum with a few more being useful. That puts a guy 25-30 as useful but on low side. You are equating middle of the pack with not being desirable. I never said he wasn't desirable. I had him on two teams.

    I don't care how many the league has, 96 or whatever, that has no bearing on FF which uses only the top players. Which is my point. Hartline is a real world good player but not so much in FF this year.

    Perhaps your loss in the Championship Riggins league game has soured your outlook on the hobby?
     
  14. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    When I try to make a legit point, you always seem to attack me. I am all for supporting white athletes and will always support white athletes but I'd hardly call asking Hartline to be a bit more consistent criticizing him. Like I said before, he only has two 100 yard games on the season and only 4 touchdowns. As I recall, you kept on chastising me when I made a similar comment about Kevin Walter. Walter was very average his last few seasons as a starter and you kept on insisting that he's "very good." He was getting virtually no separation on his routes. There are plenty on white athletes that are screwed over year after year but when you constantly praise average ones and try to say they are very good you take away the legitimacy of our claims.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013
  15. PhillyFanatic

    PhillyFanatic Guru

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    Why does this place hate Troy Polamalu? He's not even black.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013
  16. Kaptain

    Kaptain Master

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    Read "about us." We support white athletes. Polamalu is not white. Polynesians, in fact, are the most over represented and overrated racial group in the nfl. They have suddenly become trendy. Why should we support that overrated fat glory hound anyway?
     
  17. FootballDad

    FootballDad Hall of Famer

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    Interesting article about Manning's 51st touchdown pass. Julius Thomas, who caught the historic ball, promptly dropped it, unthinking (imagine that!), in order to proceed with his TNB endzone celebration. No surprise that Eric Decker picked it up and concealed it in order to give it to Manning. Humorous (I guess) excerpt from the article:

     
  18. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't play in Yahoo leagues like you do, so maybe they only start 2. I've been playing fantasy for almost 20 years in many leagues, most of them high competition leagues (that have salary caps, rookie drafts, free agent drafts and restricted free agent drafts) and none of them start 2 WRs. They all start 3, and 4 if there is a flex because the flex player is often a receiver. All fantasy sites that I'm aware of make rankings and give strategy advice on the basis of three (or more) receivers starting. But hey what do I know, you're clearly a fantasy expert far beyond any I've previously encountered.

    Being in the top 25 out of all receivers is good; it means being just out of the top ten of each conference, which is something we regularly salute when a White player is that good. I start Hartline in all the leagues I have him in, and he has been a solid producer all season, which is what you want out of a #2 or #3 starter in fantasy.

    If you think Hartline is having an "off-year" in fantasy, what previous seasons are you comparing that to? And how has his fantasy season been "worse" than his regular season? I hate to point out how wrong you are again but this has been Hartline's best fantasy season just as it has been his best season in "real" football.

    My loss in the Riggins League? At least I contend every year, winning our division (you know, the one your team is also in) nine straight years and the league title twice. If my teams were as bad as yours, yeah, I probably would lose interest in that hobby.
     
  19. davidholly

    davidholly Mentor

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    The Panthers twitter account tweeted that Kuechly actually had 26 tackles. NFL records tackling stats differently from teams though. If the Panthers are correct then that'd mean that Kuechly set the single game record.
     
  20. davidholly

    davidholly Mentor

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    And the Panthers are the first team in 2 years to win a game without converting a single third down. Cam Newton is doing a bangup job running that offense.
     
  21. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    No, you were making what you believe to be a legit point, but I happen to disagree with it and gave my reasons for disagreeing. That doesn't make it a personal attack on you. I mean really, when was the last time I disagreed with something you wrote?

    You claim Hartline is inconsistent, yet he has been very consistent. I would in fact call that his best trait as a receiver, his reliability. He's a top 25 WR in fantasy football, and in the Lambert League his lowest output this season has been 6.4 points. 20 of the 24 receivers above him in points in that league have had lower scores than 6.4 in at least one game this season. So I am showing you evidence that buttresses my opinion that Hartline is one of the most consistently productive receivers in football, and by extension fantasy football. No, he's not going to get tons of hundred yard games as very few receivers do, but he is going to consistently put up nice numbers, the kind of numbers that add up to back to back thousand yard receiving seasons and being named an alternate to the Pro Bowl last year.

    It's not "attacking" you, merely setting the record straight, just as I did when Jaxvid decided to pick up the cudgel and make the same incorrect assertion. Yes, I don't like it when one of the few outside receivers we have to cheer for is doing well and someone criticizes him and that criticism is unfounded. If you want to rebut the above with facts that you believe show Hartline to be inconsistent, feel free, I won't take it as an attack but as a reasoned argument.
     
  22. Pie

    Pie Guru

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    Probably because he symbolizes everything that is wrong in the NFL. He's a player that has always gotten choice plays on defense and set up to make those 2-3 highlight reel plays a season, who has struggled when given hard responsibilities, and has still always been called elite. He is style over substance. He's an oft injured player who keeps getting his job back in a league where a white DB is in danger of losing his job any time he comes out for one play. He's a DWF hero on one of the most heavily caste sqauds, under one of the most coddled affirmative action hire's in the league. Now that he has degenerated so far that he can't even appear good in his choice assignment, he will probably still get plenty of opportunity to continue on in the league, over hundreds of potential white candidates physically and mentally more capable than himself. He possesses a size and physique that would disqualify white players from being drafted into his position. I could go on, but that probably hits the bullet points.
     
  23. PamelaOC

    PamelaOC Banned

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    I can only speak for myself, not "this place," but I don't "hate" him. I just think that a) he's overrated and b) he's come to believe the hype about himself. I have no hostility towards him on a personal level. And as Kaptain mentioned, because of the overrepresentation of Polynesians in the NFL and the Black-12...er, Pac-12, Polys are caste-pushers, not caste-busters. Also, I don't "hate" black players either...unless they display extreme TNB.
     
  24. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    Polamalu by all accounts is a good individual off the field, soft-spoken and into healthy eating and exploring spirituality. A lot of times the dislike comes about when players are ridiculously over-hyped by the corporate media machine even after they've slowed down and/or are injury prone. Polamalu had some big seasons, as he was given the freedom to roam the field and would make key sacks and intercept passes as well as make thumping tackles, but those days are long gone. He looks like he's waddling when he runs now and he looks heavy, ala Thrashen's avatar picture of him, but he did stay healthy in 2013, which is a huge accomplishment for him. He'll likely be a cap casualty this offseason.
     
  25. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    Don, I'd like to see him easily surpass 1,000 yards on the season. This year, for instance, he will crack 1,000 but barely. His yardage total will most likely be lower than last. I feel he can do better because he has the talent to do so.

    Now if we are talking FF, you may be right, he's a WR2 in the Lambert or Riggins leagues but I played FF at in a Yahoo league this season at work and Hartline was a WR4 in a 12 team league.
     

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