Lomachenko vs Lopez

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by Westside, Oct 16, 2020.

  1. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    Youth, drive, and power are a winning combination.
     
  2. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    Yes Loma lost this more than Lopez won it but Lopez did look good and seasoned.

    PS, Harold Lederman usually scored the fights accurately, but his daughter might have Covid as her senses were clearly off with 119-109.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  3. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    No doubt he was concerned about it.
     
  4. Arerequired

    Arerequired Guru

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    Welp... we are never going to hear the end of this I'm afraid :rolleyes:. Not for a while.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  5. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    Why? It was not a blowout. I had it draw.
     
  6. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    Watching both in the ring, Lopez was a lot bigger. He will never fight at 135 lbs again. Loma can still come back. The BSPN crew is ecstatic. What is new, 2020.
     
  7. Leonardfan

    Leonardfan Hall of Famer

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    Good fight - Loma didn’t do enough early and failed to catchup in the later rounds. Lopez won the early rounds, Loma the later rounds but the outburst in round 12 by Lopez sealed the deal.
     
  8. The Hock

    The Hock Master

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    I've always sensed an undercurrent of resentment that the PFP best was a white fighter. The broadcast team seemed to favor Lopez.

    Loma hasn't been as dominant since he moved up in weight. He was fighting a guy at least a full division above him. The size and power difference clearly was a factor in his hesitation.

    That said Lopez fought a very good fight and came up big in the 12th. My hat is off to him.

    I don't think a rematch is in order. Loma needs to stick to his more ideal weight division. Lightweight ain't it.
     
  9. Leonardfan

    Leonardfan Hall of Famer

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    Of course they are. Lopez is in no way a fellow countryman of mine. I hope most American whites feel the same way.
     
  10. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    Yes this played a factor too, Lopez weight drains to get down to 135 and probably was a junior middleweight entering the ring. Loma probably gained a few pounds at best as he looked similar to his weigh in build.

    There were a few moments where Loma tagged Lopez and looked he might be taking command but I suspect the size of Lopez was able get him to ride out the difficult moments. But I still feel if Loma felt a sense of urgency early he wins the fight and maybe stops Lopez from exhaustion.
     
  11. Arerequired

    Arerequired Guru

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    True, true - it seemed Ward had it a draw as well, perhaps it should have been a draw. But it will be in the books as a decision for Lopez even if Lomachenko made a good account of himself in the later rounds.

    Well there is a racial element as we all know in boxing, even many nonwhites will root for any nonwhite fighters against whites not just their own. The underperformance compared to the expectation of Loma as well as it being an undisputed fight and there is also an unimaginable amount of resentment for Lomachenko so it breeds the perfect storm.

    This bestows truly priceless ammunition to nonwhites, DWFs and others who are otherwise parched for it in the combat sports arena.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  12. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    Leonardfan I am with you. However, millions of brainwashed whites would be against us. That been said Lopez at 23 years of age reminded composed and did not implode. Kudos to him. He was humbled at the end. Praying ever night that Trump wins. If not the country will slide into the shitter mosh gosh.
     
  13. Leonardfan

    Leonardfan Hall of Famer

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    Im a total boxing novice. All you guys clearly know your stuff! I had no idea Loma moved up and Lopez moved down a weight class.
     
  14. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    Agreed for the most part. But.....we still have the Undisputed Heavyweight Championship in Fury!!!!
     
  15. Leonardfan

    Leonardfan Hall of Famer

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    I hear you my friend. I just saw the clips prior to the fight and Lopez rubbed me the wrong way - reminds me of many a latino I’ve come across in life.
     
  16. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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    Very depressing to watch this fight as Lomachenko should have not this kid was very good. You can't coast through half the fight and expect to win with crooked judges who almost always have anti white decisions. Loma fought alot better in the
    2nd half of the fight but it was too little too late. I think it could have been a draw or a very close fight with either boxer winning. The scorecards didn't match the fight I saw. I think he will bounce back but this was history. Very sad. The best he can
    hope for is to try to negotiate a rematch.
     
  17. Arerequired

    Arerequired Guru

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    The 119-109 scorecard is egregious... I think Lopez's power but size as well was problematic for Lomachenko but he has a better chance already being in there with Lopez in a hypothetical rematch... People are already calling him a a fraud when he has accomplished more than almost any other fighter active but that's what I predicted... These are the same people who attack Loma's resume for having only 15 (now 16) fights without any nuance for fight numbers/fight significance or his amateur/Olympic career.

    I think Loma is the better boxer but the physical attributes of Lopez and Gun-shy nature of Lomachenko in this fight sealed the deal. Loma seemingly getting hurt a few times by bodyshots is worrisome but we don't know how well he prepared for this fight, perhaps an underestimation?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  18. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    Lopez will never fight at 135 lbs again. He is too big for the weight. Loma can bounce back, but 135 lbs is his limit. The rematch will not happen. Loma should have stepped on the gas earlier. But he was leery of Lopez's power. Oh well, good fight between elite fighters. Especially Lopez who is only 23 years old. He did not implode when Loma turned up the heat in the second half. Yes, White Lighting kinda depressing, but it was close and could go either way, but Loma let a historic moment slip pass his fingers in a winnable fight with the risk of being KO'd early in the fight.
     
  19. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    My final thought on the scoring and flow of the fight it reminded me of Leonard vs Hagler. In that fight Hagler like Loma was too patient and didn't force the action until he like Loma needed to sweep the rest of the rounds to get a narrow win or salvage a draw. A few respected eyes on the sport had this fight similar to the way we viewed it as a pipped win for Lopez or a draw, nobody saw 119 to 109 for Lopez.

    Julie Lederman should be suspended and explain herself before the NAC. If she is to judge again let it be on international broadcasts with Colonel Bob Sheridan and Larry Merchant as an in house referee similar to her father.

    https://fightnews.com/lopez-lomachenko-scorecard/88963There's too much money at stake for incompetent judging.
     
  20. Bucky

    Bucky Master

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    Pretty shocked at Lomas poor performance. Lopez was more aggressive throughout and earned his win that's for sure!
     
  21. Charles Martel

    Charles Martel Hall of Famer

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    Teofimo Lopez was the bigger, longer, stronger and younger man. Still, Loma made it a close fight, I had it 115-113 for Lopez.

    ((( Julie Lederman's))) card of 119-109 was terrible, she gave rounds 8,9, and 10 to Lopez. And (((Steve Weisfeld's))) card of 117-111 was also too wide.

    Loma is too small for lightweight, he's better at featherweight. And I think the long layoff had an adverse effect on him.

    But credit to Lopez. On my card, Loma needed round 12 for a draw. But Lopez although very tired turned it up and finished strong, winning round 12.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  22. CovidCrisis

    CovidCrisis Newbie

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    This fight was aired on ESPN, so I was able to watch for free, which is a nice touch given the economic downturn associated with the Covid-19. Ultimately, I feel the right man won, and I believe Teofimo Lopez clearly won this fight, I scored it approximately 116-112, but I can see 117-111 to 115-113.

    Vasyl Lomachenko and his team I thought fought a terrible game plan, they literally almost gave away the first half of the fight. Many of the first six rounds, Lomachenko was throwing less than 10 punches a round making it essentially impossible for him to win the rounds. Lomachenko did much better in the 2nd half, but the reality is the fight was lost in the first half of the fight. If you're a puncher (Wilder, Kovalev, Golovkin, etc.) you can afford to give rounds away because you can come on late and win by KO but Lomachenko has never been a puncher in his career, his KO's are all stoppages, not KO's, and he moved up in weight. I am curious to see an explanation by Lomachenko and his corner as to why they threw so few punches and gave away the first half of the fight? Was the plan for Lomachenko to win by KO late? And if so, what a truly bizarre gameplan considering Lomachenko is not a puncher and Lopez is the bigger man. The plan should have been to win rounds. Lomachenko lost the first 6 rounds (barring arguably round 2) of the fight. Once we got into the second half, it was an uphill, impossible battle for Lomachenko. Once both fighters began exchanging punches I would say Lomachenko landed the better punches which leads me to believe if Lomachenko had simply thrown more punches and engaged more in early rounds, he would have won the fight. Lomachenko's performance in the first 6 rounds was reminiscent of Wladimir Klitschko VS Tyson Fury.

    I said before the fight, and watching the fight I do believe that Lopez's size and strength were apparent and there is a reason weight classes exist in boxing. It looked like a Lightweight VS a Welterweight. Perhaps that is an explanation as to why Lomachenko did not let his hands go in the first half of the fight, due to being cautious of getting tagged in return.

    Lomachenko has been a great Champion, his wins over Rigondeaux, Walters, and Russell Jr. were his best works unfortunately this fight "was for all the marbles" and would crown the first 4 Belt Undisputed Lightweight Champion in History and he lost it. I do think historically, this will be remembered as the most important fight of his career.

    For Teofimo Lopez I can just congratulate him and say well done. Race aside, I call the fight like I see it and he deserved the win. It's truly remarkable that a 23 year old young man has beaten the #1 P4P fighter in the world. It is a legendary win by Teofimo Lopez and although it was not the most exciting fight, it will go down in history and be remembered for years. I believe as Teofimo's career unfolds, this will remain his high point.

    When you look at the Mayweather's and Canelo's and even Calzaghe's of boxing, none of them did what Teofimo Lopez just did. Teofimo took a massive risk in fighting Lomachenko at a time when Loma was on a winning streak, and Teofimo was a clear underdog. Mayweather, Canelo, and even Calzaghe fought their entire careers being risk-averse, avoiding guys in their primes and on winning streaks, and the truth is neither 3 of these guys ever took on a risk of the magnitude Teofimo Lopez just did. In fact neither 3 of these guys even took on a risk that was half in magnitude as Lopez just did. This is a win for the ages by Teofimo and I think as a single win, tops anything on Mayweather's, Canelo's, or Calzaghe's record. Teofimo, at only 23 years, just took on and beat the #1 P4P in the world, as a clear underdog, at a time when Lomachenko is close to at his best and on a solid win streak. It's an A+ win for Teofimo Lopez. Well done for Teofimo and if he becomes a boxing superstar after this he earned it and I'll definitely watch his next fight.

    I believe Teofimo Lopez should be P4P #1 after this. It's true that Canelo and Crawford and Usyk have more substantial records, but none of them have a win as significant as this, and none of them took on a risk of this magnitude and pulled off a win in a fight where they were a clear underdog.

    Dare to Be Great!!! Teofimo Lopez took the risk that other guys wouldn't take in fighting a P4P #1 (Gervonta Davis, Devin Haney, historically Mayweather, Canelo Calzaghe, De La Hoya all never fought a P4P #1 in his prime as a betting underdog). Teofimo took the massive risk and came out on top and now he should be rewarded. People who take risks and come out on top should be rewarded. Boxing in recent years has become a highly risk averse sport - Mayweather, Canelo, Calzaghe, Gervonta Davis all being great examples targetting their shots at guys, constantly avoiding guys in their primes on win streaks.

    Canelo fought a mid-late 30's Golovkin at a time when Golovkin was looking vulnerable and noticeably fading, 100% cherry picking, and in my opinion Canelo still lost both fights. Mayweather avoided Miguel Cotto for years until he lost and started to look vulnerable, also purposely fought Mosley and De La Hoya out of their primes. Calzaghe was an excellent boxer but some of his biggest wins were targetted shots at out of prime Roy Jones Jr. and Bernard Hopkins.

    Teofimo Lopez has done the exact opposite of those approaches, fighting a dangerous elite fighter at a time when he is at his best. Super risky move and Teo came out on top. Teo won so give him the credit that an upset of this magnitude deserves. I believe he is P4P #1.

    There has been discussion on BoxingScene concerning a potential rematch. I believe a rematch would be a more one sided win for Lopez. From Loma's perspective I believe he needs to drop down in weight , and quite frankly I don't believe there is something "new" or "unseen" he brings to a rematch. Honestly, Loma looks to me like his heart may no longer be in the sport and if that's true he is best off retiring. If he continues fighting he needs to engage way earlier on in fights because his strategy VS Lopez was awful. There was no rematch clause in place and Lopez is in no way obligated to grant a rematch.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  23. Arerequired

    Arerequired Guru

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    Don't make my mistake and go to the boxing subreddit or almost any boxing forum/comments section, it's full of nonwhite Loma detractors and it's obvious, some of the worst takes I have ever seen are over there.

    After being tortured by his victories over Rigondeaux, Linares, Russell they finally have their great hope and catharsis ;), well, not including low blow Salido.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  24. CovidCrisis

    CovidCrisis Newbie

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    Teofimo Lopez made History becoming the youngest Undisputed 4 Belt Champion in history, also becoming the only Undisputed 4 Belt Lightweight Champion in History.

    The fact that he was a clear betting underdog and fighting a probable #1 P4P Boxer in the world only makes his victory sweeter. In the context of a single win, it is more significant than any result on Mayweather's, Canelo's, Calzaghe's, DLH's, or Crawford's records. None of them ever truly took on a risk on this scale fighting a P4P #1 in his prime as an unquestionable underdog and came up to win. Mayweather never did that or was in that position. Calzaghe never did that or was in that position. Canelo never did that and has a track record of fighting guys once they reach late 30's and vulnerable.

    *Dare To Be Great!!!* Many people don't understand what that means. It means the greater the risk the greater the reward. You need to take the risk to get the reward. Teofimo is now P4P #1 and people not recognizing him as such just further contributes to mismatches, cherry picking ala Canelo, making boxing a risk averse sport.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  25. NWsoccerfan

    NWsoccerfan Guru

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    Lopez has nothing on Mayweather, Canelo, Calzaghe or De La Hoya. You should stick to subjects you know something about, and we now know covid and boxing aren't two of them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020

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