John Kuhn

Discussion in 'Green Bay Packers' started by White Power, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. Van_Slyke_CF

    Van_Slyke_CF Mentor

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    The Steelers struggled for years to complement Willie Parker and now Rashard Mendenhall with a power back.

    Even though Bill Cowher at least had a white FB in Dan Kreider for years, he never let him carry the ball, and they certainly couldn't have considered John Kuhn for a backup TB/FB role, so they got rid of Kuhn.

    Now Mike Tomlin and Bruce Arians would never dream of letting a white player stay on the roster at TB/FB. Hell, they won't even let WR Tyler Grisham play this year.

    The Packers benefit once again from using white players at most positions on the field.

    The "Wes Welker Effect" seems to have given white WRs a bit more of a chance in recent years.

    Perhaps the "Peyton Hillis Effect" will give some others a chance in the NFL to carry the ball.

    And, more importantly, it might convince at least a few more D-1 schools to recruit white runners, giving the NFL a little more depth at RB to choose from in the coming years.

    Toby Gerhart needs to hang in there and show some perseverance like Hillis has on the way to becoming a dominant RB. Gerhart's chance will come as Adrian Peterson will get hurt soon enough.

    Danny Woodhead getting regular carries...there are some games to get fired up about each Sunday this season! Edited by: Van_Slyke_CF
     
  2. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    Kuhn's running role has been phased out the past few games, with his role taken by Dimitri Nance. Kuhn ran pretty well, but the main problem is that he was too beefed up as a fullback to switch immediately to tailback; he would be much more effective as arunner if he lost 20 ormore pounds to increase his mobility and shiftiness while still maintaining plenty of power.












    Green Bay Packers running back Dimitri Nance thrilled to get more carries

    The coaching staff is comfortable enough in Nance that he may have usurped the No. 2 running back position away from John Kuhn. Brandon Jackson took over the starting job after the Grant injury, but Kuhn split the carries. Kuhn had 13 carries for 50 yards in Week 9 against the Cowboys, and he has 225 yards on 62 carries this season. <BR itxt="1"><BR itxt="1">The Minnesota game was the first time Kuhn did not touch the ball this year. <BR itxt="1"><BR itxt="1">Philbin wouldn't say Nance has moved up the depth chart, but coach Mike McCarthy hinted at such. <BR itxt="1"><BR itxt="1">"I look forward to going forward with him and Brandon. I think that is a good 1-2 punch,"Â￾ McCarthy said. "He was in a position where he came from Atlanta, and the terminology was completely different. There really wasn't a lot of carryover for him. I understand football is football, but we do a lot of things with our backs, as far as what we ask them to do, and that's why there's actually a number of times that we had packages for him in the game that we just never got to.<BR itxt="1"><BR itxt="1">"It probably took a little longer for him to get on the field than I would have liked. Really part of that had more to do with our third-down struggles, frankly. Now that we have him involved, he's caught up on everything, and I would like to get him more in the flow of the game."Â￾<BR itxt="1"><BR itxt="1">Nance, at 5-foot-10, 219 pounds, is a squatty, power runner with thick legs. He's got a glimpse of shake to him, but short-yardage, between-the-tackles situations are his new specialty.

    full article: http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20101125/PKR01/101125031/1057/PKR&amp;located=rss<BR itxt="1">Edited by: Don Wassall
     
  3. TwentyTwo

    TwentyTwo Master

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    Excellent post VanSlyke!

    Was wondering what was up with Kuhn??
     
  4. Guest

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    JK one reception for 9 yards, a checkdown play I think. Nance the budding superstar had one carry for 0 yds and a concussion. I don't really think the run blocking was all that good for the Pack so I cannot lay all the blame on the backs for yesterday's non rushing performance but I can think of a handful of plays thruout the season that seen JK stuffed behind the line when he was in the HB position. And when he is in it is all but telegraphed that it is a running play.
     
  5. Thrashen

    Thrashen Hall of Famer

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    McCarthy actually believes that Brandon Jackson and Dimitri Nance are "a good one-two punch?"Â￾ Jackson wasn't even a productive back at Nebraska. Mediocre NCAA stats and average combine numbers didn't stop Green Bay from selecting him in the 2nd round. He was, and still is, a bust. Kuhn was a record setting runner at Shippensburg. Undrafted, cut by Bill Cowturd's Steelers, signed to the practice squad, cut again, you know the drill.

    Kuhn has had to work for everything he's gotten, whereas all of Jackson's opportunities were handed to him. The conventional narrative of white and black Americans, I suppose.
     
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    mine is post 49 in the comments and it is a defense of JK not a diatribe against "affletes" or caste whores nor do I use the word "negro" for affect. But if some dwfs insist on running down JK with the usual caste speak I will break out the word "caste" for their drubbing.
     
  8. FootballDad

    FootballDad Hall of Famer

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    In reading through the majority of the comments on that article, the DWF's don't even recognize that Kuhn is even there. To them, he's invisible, not even considered an option. Caste system blindness in action.
     
  9. Colonel_Reb

    Colonel_Reb Hall of Famer

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    That's for sure. The Caste System is blindness in action. We're changing that though!
     
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    But the dwfs think a MAC running back is the savior, maybe the room brightening smile or skin tone differentiates his abilities from JK's.
     
  11. ToughJ.Riggins

    ToughJ.Riggins Hall of Famer

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    Wow, take a look at Nance's best season at Arizona State:
    188-795-4.2 YPC-7 total TDs (6 rushing, 1 receiving). And Nance's 40 time was a pretty slow 4.64 with a pretty unimpressive 4.36 short shuttle and a 1.6 10 yard burst. Although I haven't seen Nance's highlights I have heard him described as a straight lined runner.

    Jake Sharp's best seasons were significantly better in YPC production and Sharp had more rushing yards and all purpose yards as a junior than Nance had as a senior. Sharp still matched Nance's YPC while injured as a senior. Sharp ran the 40 at his Pro Day between 4.34 and 4.43 and ran a fast 4.06 short shuttle tying McCluster's fastest RB time at the NFL Combine. Nance's and Sharp's 3 cone times were VERY similar with Sharp's 0.03 faster at 6.84- which would have tied Sharp for 2nd best for tailbacks in that category. Sharp's game film is that of a 2nd or 3rd round pick- and of course his measureables are 1st round material. His stats are of a late round pick to priority UFA- although he was limited by his coach and injury. All in all- Sharp's resume should have added up to a 4th round pick or so.

    We've already talked about what a joke the resume of Kahil Bell of the Bears is, but how about Chris Jennings formerly of the Browns:
    Best season rushing:
    105-451-4.3 YPC-3 TD (Junior)- he regressed as a senior as a rusher:
    53-156-2.9 YPC-1 TD although his receiving stats weren't atrocious:
    27-232-8.6-1 TD &gt;receiving
    I can't find Jennings valid 40 time listed on NFLdraftscout, but it was estimated at 4.64.

    Jake Sharp where are you? Why isn't the NFL calling, when it is for these guys?

    Can you imagine how much better a Pack rushing attack of Tyler Roehl and Jake Sharp would be compared to Jackson, Kuhn and Nance? Wake up Packers' personnel!Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins
     
  12. snow

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    Looking at Brandon Jackson's college highlights, it wouldn't even take someone like Roehl or Sharp to outproduce him, he looks to have less talent than someone like Kevin Harris or Luke Lippincott. It says he ran a 10.6 in the 100 meter, I just don't see it on the game film. He did break off a 71 yarder, but the Redskins have been one of the worse rush defenses this season, other then that I don't think he has had any big gains. The footage I saw of Nance, he looked shifty, but spent alot of energy gaining a little over 10 yards. Rotoworld said Nance was concussed last week so maybe Kuhn will get more carries.

    Sharp could be a great player, I just don't know if dwfs could handle two white speed backs at the same time (Woodhead and Sharp), although it would be nice to see what he could do. Great speed, great hands, usually makes one cut and bursts through the hole, though he can weave in and out of traffic as well.
     
  13. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    Tre Smith could have been as successful as Woodhead. In fact, lots of White scatbacks would have done well in the NFL in recent years. Hopefully it's not too late for a team to give Sharp an opportunity, but it's unlikely.
     
  14. ToughJ.Riggins

    ToughJ.Riggins Hall of Famer

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    snow, after watching Luke Lippincott's highlights last year, I think he would have probably been a 7th round draft pick or priority UFA based on his production if black (although he did deal with foot and ankle problems at the end of last year ending his season which could have gotten him lost in the mix anyway). Lippincott looks like a fringe NFL talent- basically a 3rd or 4th RB who might hang around for a year or two or be a practice squad guy until his team brought in a new guy who they thought had more upside. I agree with you he's not an ELITE white talent that we should be losing sleep over him not playing in the NFL.

    After watching Kevin Harris' highlights, he looks as talented as backs who get picked in the 4th or 5th round or so of the NFL draft, but he was jerked around by his coach and never had enough production. A typical caste story. Tyler Roehl is another guy with similar talent to Kevin Harris and he was VERY productive in the FCS, he probably would have been a 6th or 7th round gem if black (since he played in the FCS). Roehl and Harris could be split carry 1-2 RBs in the NFL.

    Jake Sharp has the talent of a 2nd round RB or so, but based on his his average production (he had injuries and was jerked around by Mark ManGINA) he would probably have dropped to about a 4th round pick if black. He probably would have been picked around the time Joe McKnight was picked- although I think Sharp would wind up the better player.
     
  15. ToughJ.Riggins

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    Getting back to Kuhn, I think the guy could be better than about 1/3 of NFL #2 RBs if he lost 10 or 15 pounds and be a nice #3 RB for most teams. There are quite a few affirmative action "projects" getting PT at tailback in the NFL (it makes me sick to my stomach) that Kuhn could outproduce. Kuhn's size makes him a nice option for the Pack and many teams in the league though because he can also be used as a blocker.
     
  16. backrow

    backrow Hall of Famer

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    he got his short yardage duties back last week and converted all of it, so although his stats aren't pretty 6 /13 and 1 TD, he only had 1 run that wasn't converting an obvious 3rd and 1 or 2, and that went for 4.
     
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  18. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    From what I read Nance had concussion issues and was held out for the game yesterday. Kuhn was bumped up to the second string tailback again.
     
  19. TwentyTwo

    TwentyTwo Master

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    The dynamic trio of Jackson/Starks/Nance combined for a pedestrian31 yards rushing on 15 carries vs Lions yesterday... impressive average ehh??

    Have they banned Kuhn from carrying the ball?? Would he do worse than a 2.0 avg per carry??

    The Packers need to be careful they don't miss the playoffs..Matt Flynn is a solid QB; Just lacks experience;faces the red-hot Patriots next week. Wonder how long Rodgers will be out?Edited by: TwentyTwo
     
  20. Guest

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    TT the super duper real running backs have the balance of a two year old. They got touched and they fell down, I understand if they get mobbed, but on some carries a defender threw a low shoulder at them and poof they drop like rocks. Kuhn gets one dump pass to him takes one of these shoulder hits and at least drives for 4 more for a total of 9, do they go back to the well? Nope.
     
  21. ToughJ.Riggins

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    The Pack would be best to go with a backfield by committee with Starks and Kuhn getting most of the split of the carries and Jackson getting some work as a 3rd down receiving back (if Starks can't handle that yet). Kuhn has some third down abilities as well and should be the short yardage guy also. I think Starks has the most potential going forward if he can figure it out. He's still learning, but I wouldn't be surprised if he works out even better than Ryan Grant before long. Jake Sharp should be on the Packers ahead of Nance and Jackson anyway, but unfortunately Ted Thompson is being a coward. [​IMG]
     
  22. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    Kuhn looked the best he has all season running the ball against the Patriots, showing patience and elusiveness rather than his previous mostly boring straight ahead style. If the organization lets him lose 25 pounds during the offseason he should be given a serious opportunity to be the featured running back in 2011 in competition against Ryan Grant and whatever journeymen are on the roster next year. There's no reason Kuhn can't average over 4 yards a carry with his combination of power and running moxy.
     
  23. celticdb15

    celticdb15 Hall of Famer

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    Agreed if he can get in the 240 pound range he could be a great powerback with a solid set of hands
     
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