Italian Serie A 2012-2013

Discussion in 'Soccer' started by Porthos, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

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    Italian Serie A

    Tomorow, August 25, 2012, the new 2012/2013 season starts. Poor Serie A. From a once dominant European competition in the 80s and 90s, it is now in precipitous decline and was recently overtaken by Bundesliga in UEFA rankings... There are many issues here, from (yet another) betting scandal (Juventus coach Antonio Conte was banned from attending games for 10 months, many players disqualified, Lecce relegated to third division) to crumbling infrastructure and stadia, from departing star-players to extreme financial hardship for many teams. Juventus seems to be by far the dominant power, Inter and AC Milan are definitely weaker this year, their owners trying to reign in spending drammatically. Possible surprises Napoli, Roma.

    Here's how last year's competition ended:
    [​IMG]




    Here's this year situation:

    - Teams and stadia (3 teams from Serie B were Promoted: Pescara, Torino and Sampdoria):
    [​IMG]
    - Locations:
    [​IMG]

    The value of the teams (the value of player's cadre accorfing to transfermarkt) and the percentage of the foreign players:
    Juventus 323.400.000 € 38.7%
    Internazionale 252.850.000 € 78.8%
    Milan 204.925.000 € 53.6%
    Napoli 179.150.000 € 47.8%
    Roma 155.950.000 € 64.3%
    Fiorentina 126.750.000 € 70.4%
    Lazio 123.550.000 € 60.6%
    Udinese 97.800.000 € 77.4%
    Genoa 83.225.000 € 60%
    Palermo 76.450.000 € 67.7%
    Parma 64.800.000 € 43.3%
    Cagliari 64.225.000 € 46.2%
    Atalanta 62.400.000 € 27.6%
    Sampdoria 61.650.000 € 50%
    Bologna 58.650.000 € 43.8%
    Catania 54.475.000 € 56.3%
    Torino 50.575.000 € 37.9%
    Chievo 42.650.000 € 46.9%
    Pescara 32.075.000 € 35.3%
    Siena 28.575.000 € 24.2%

    As far as nationalities are concerned, Serie A is now less than half Italian, i.e. 51.5% are foreigners and many "Italians" are really naturalized foreign citizens. Compared to other "big" leagues, it has the most foreign players after the English Premier League. Here's the data:
    Payers Total - 600
    Foreign Players - 311 51.5 %
    Compared to foreign players in other top leagues:
    England 62.9% (however this percentage includes players from Scotland, Wells, N. Ireland)
    Germany 49.8%
    France 40.7% (however, many "French" players are really Africans and Arabs)
    Spain 34.5%

    Foreign players by country (number of players and percentage of the total of foreign players, i.e. not percentage of all players):
    Argentina 54 17,4%
    Brazil 47 15,1%
    Uruguay 25 8,0%
    France 15 4,8%
    Serbia 15 4,8%
    Switzerl. 12 3.9%
    Chile 11 3,5%
    Colombia 10 3,2%
    Spain 9 2,9%
    Ghana 9 2,9%
    Slovenia 9 2,9%
    Sweden 8 2,6%
    Romania 6 1,9%
    Belgium 5 1,6%
    Senegal 5 1,6%
    Slovakia 5 1,6%
    Nigeria 4 1,3%
    Paraguay 4 1,3%
    Peru 3 1,0%
    Hungary 3 1,0%
    Greece 3 1,0%
    Austria 3 1,0%
    Germany 3 1,0%
    Albania 3 1,0%
    Netherlands 3 1,0%
    Poland 3 1,0%
    Croatia 3 1,0%
    Denmark 3 1,0%
    Lithuania 2 0.6%
    Czech 2 0.6%
    Japan 2 0.6%
    Morocco 2 0.6%
    Montenegro 2 0.6%
    Bosnia 2 0.6%
    Macedonia 1 0.3%
    Algeria 1 0.3%
    Venezuela 1 0.3%
    Kenya 1 0.3%
    Guine 1 0.3%
    Egypt 1 0.3%
    Israel 1 0.3%
    Tunisia 1 0.3%
    USA 1 0.3%
    Cote Ivoire 1 0.3%
    Iceland 1 0.3%
    Mali 1 0.3%
    Sierra L. 1 0.3%
    Finland 1 0.3%
    Portugal 1 0.3%

    On the racial front, there is a mix of good news / bad news. The good news is that Serie A is still an overwhelmingly White league. Most of the foreign players are White South Americans or Europeans. The racial breakdown (by my estimate) is Whites 85%, Blacks 11.3%, Arabs 1.3%, Mesitzos/Amerindians 1.5%, Asians 0.3%, Turks 0.3%, Jews 0.1%. Here are the non-white players by country of origin and team.

    Out of a total of 600 players, non-Whites are:

    Blacks: 68 (11.3%)

    Udinese: 11 blacks
    Maicosuel - Brasil/Udinese
    Jean-Alain Fanchone - France/Udinese
    Allan - Brasil/Udinese
    Mohamadou Sissoko - France/Udinese
    Pablo Armero - Colombia/Udinese
    Luis Muriel - Colombia/Udinese
    Emmanuel Badu - Ghana/Udinese
    Christian Obodo - Nigeria/Udinese
    Odion Ighalo - Nigeria/Udinese
    Allan - Brasil/Udinese
    Williams - Brasil/Udinese

    Milan: 9 blacks
    Robinho - Brasil/Milan
    Jonathan - Brasil/Milan
    Cristian Zapata - Colombia/Milan
    Kevin-Prince Boateng - Ghana/Milan
    Sulley Muntari - Ghana/Milan
    Urby Emanuelson - Netherlands/Milan
    Kévin Constant - Guinea/Milan
    Bakaye Traoré - Mali/Milan
    Rodney Strasser - Sierra Leone/Milan

    Inter: 8 blacks
    Alvaro Pereira - Uruguay/Inter
    Fredy Guarín - Colombia/Inter
    Gaby Mudingayi - Belgium/Inter
    Ibrahima Mbaye - Senegal/Inter
    Joel Obi - Nigeria/Inter
    McDonald Mariga - Kenya/Inter
    Juan - Brasil/Inter
    Alfred Duncan - Italy/Inter

    Lazio: 6 blacks
    Abdoulay Konko - France/Lazio
    Modibo Diakité - France/Lazio
    Luis Pedro Cavanda - Belgium/Lazio
    Ogenyi Onazi - Nigeria/Lazio
    Andre Diaz - Brasil/Lazio
    Hernanes - Brasil/Lazio


    Torino: 4 blacks
    Abou Diop - Senegal/Torino
    Angelo Ogbonna - Italy/Torino
    Lys Gomis - Italy/Torino
    AlfredGomis - Italy/Torino

    Parma: 4 blacks
    Jonathan Biabiany - France/Parma
    Dorlan Pabón - Colombia/Parma
    Afriyie Acquah - Ghana/Parma
    Fabiano Santacroce - Italy/Parma

    Fiorentina: 4 blacks
    Juan Cuadrado - Colombia/Fiorentina
    Nii Nortey Ashong - Ghana/Fiorentina
    Kenneth Zohore - Denmark/Fiorentina
    Romulo - Italy/Fiorentina


    Juventus: 3 blacks
    Paul Pogba - France/Juventus
    Richmond Boakye - Ghana/Juventus
    Kwadwo Asamoah - Ghana/Juventus

    Chievo: 3 blacks
    Marcos De Paula - Brasil/Chievo
    Isaac Cofie - Ghana/Chievo
    Boukary Dramé - Senegal/Chievo

    Catania: 3 blacks
    Amidu Salifu - Ghana/Catania
    Souleymane Doukara - Senegal/Catania
    Alex Rolin - Uruguay/Catania

    Pescara: 3 blacks
    David Mbodj Mbaye - Senegal/Pescara
    Juan Quintero - Colombia/Pescara
    Jonathas - Brasil/Pescara

    Atalanta: 3 blacks
    Adriano Ferreira Pinto - Brasil/Atalanta
    Moussa Koné - Cote d'Ivoire/Atalanta

    Siena: 2 blacks
    Angelo - Brasil/Siena
    Reginaldo - Brasil/Siena

    Napoli: 1 black
    Camilo Zúniga - Colombia/Napoli

    Cagliari: 1 black
    Víctor Ibarbo - Colombia/Cagliari

    Sampdoria: 1 black
    Pedro Obiang - Spain/Sampdoria

    Palermo: 1 black
    Abel Fernandez - Uruguay/Palermo

    Genoa: 1 black
    Anselmo - Brasil/Genoa

    Bologna: 1 black
    Roger Carvalho - Brasil/Bologna

    Turks: 2 (0.3%)
    Gökhan Inler - Switzerland/Napoli
    Mervan Celik - Sweden/Pescara

    Arabs: 8 (1.3%)
    Ishak Belfodil - France/Parma
    Yohan Benalouane - Tunisia/Parma
    Mounir El Hamdaoui - Morocco/Fiorentina
    Ahmed Hegazy - Egypt/Fiorentina
    Mehdi Benatia - Morocco/Udinese
    Djamel Mesbah - Algeria/Milan
    Stephan El Sharawi - Italy/Milan
    Saphir Taider - France/Bologna

    Mesitzos/Amerindians: 9 (1.5%)
    Daniel Martínez - Paraguay/Genoa
    Rinaldo Cruzado - Peru/Genoa
    Carlos Labrín - Chile/Palermo
    Arturo Vidal - Chile/Juventus
    Rafael Romo - Venezuela/Udinese
    Edinson Cavani - Uruguay/Napoli
    Marquinhos - Brasil/Roma
    Matuzalem - Brasil/Lazio
    Marcelo Estegarribia - Italy/Sampdoria

    Asians: 2 (0.3%)
    Takayuki Morimoto - Japan/Catania
    Yuto Nagatomo - Japan/Inter

    Jews: 1 (0.1%)
    Eran Zahavi - Israel/Palermo


    The bad news is that even serie A is darkening. We can see teams like Juventus (which in the past had minimal number of black players) acquiring 3 Africans, and even a traditionally right-wing/nationalistic team like Lazio having 6, which is astonishing. AC Milan is as colored as ever and Inter traditionally cosmopolitan with Italians being a tyny minority. Probably the most disgusting team is Udinese (the "Italian Beveren") which is really a reselling agency for players from the Third World than a real team. They have 11 Blacks, 1 Arab and 1 Amerindian, which is astonishing from a provincial team. Sending their scouts to the four corners of the World, buying (mostly) colored players on the cheap and using Serie A as a shop-window for the big teams has been their main business model for years now.

    Serie A lost some star players this transfer season (Ibrahimovic from AC Milan, Lavezzi from Napoli etc.) and there were no "big" newcomers. The largest incoming transfer appearently being that of Alvaro Pereira from Porto to Inter Milan for 11M Euros, not a very large sum in top European football. This continues the trend that sees this league being less and less attractive for top players (which may not be a bad thing in my opinion, see my post "Against modern football").

    And last, but not least, some things to watch:
    - Will Juventus be dominant again?
    - How will the exchange Cassano-Pazzini between AC Milan and Inter Milan play out?
    - See how some coaches will do - Stramaccioni at Inter, the Czech Zeman at Roma, the Bosnian/Croat Petkovic at Lazio...
    - See how low AC Milan and/or Inter can fall
    - See if there is a team that can challenge the "big 3" (my choices for possible surprises - Roma and Napoli)
    - See if some new star players emerge (my choice, Insigne from Napoli)
    - See how some oldtimers hold their own (Totti, Zanetti)
    - See who is going to be the dissapointment of the season (my choices - Fiorentina and Lazio who spent a lot on colored players)

    For those (like myself) who follow Serie A - enjoy!
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2013
  2. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    great infos porthos, it's great to have a serie A thread
    these infos complete arend's racial breakdowns perfectly: http://www.castefootball.us/forums/...tios-2012-2013?p=253643&viewfull=1#post253643

    because the league is pretty white (but in the process of getting blacker as you said) but there are also too many argentines
    while having the best argentines and uruguayans in the italian league like batistuta, crespo, recoba, helped italy to be more competitive, having some clubs with more than 50% strangers hurts italy

    ac milan is in the process of becoming a french "ligue 1" club, it's dying, very sad
    we joke about it a lot in france but we are actually sad

    who is going to play in ac milan's defense? do you have any idea?

    i'm rooting for as roma, juventus
    and against internazionale (for what they did to forlan)
     
  3. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    AC milan losing 1-0 against sampdoria at home...who would have thought?

    ac milan started the match with 4 non-whites, including 2 blacks and an arab
    then 2 blacks came in
     
  4. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

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    I watched the Milan game and they definitely need a strong central defender. They played Bonera and Yepes as central defenders and the goal came from a corner exactly in that area. Here's the picture of the goal, with Boateng (N. 10) making only a token attempt to jump, and Bonera (25) being cought completely out of place by the goal scorer (Costa, N. 3 in white). Whenever you get this king of goals from set pieces, it's clear there is something wrong with the defence:

    [​IMG]


    They also have Mexes (which I think was injured) and the new Spanish guy Didac Villa for that position but he is also injured. Milan definitely looked very weak both in the central defense area as well as in attack where both the megaflop Robinho as well as the El Sharawy (both favorites of the coach) looked completely lost. Too bad Maxi Lopez did not stay, he definitely should have had a place in this year's Milan. Pazzini came in the last 15-20 minutes, but barely received a pass or two.
    Maxi played for Sampdoria the last 15-20 minutes. He did OK, but played too little to be commented.
    AC Milan is o weak they will have to buy someone in the last days of the transfer window or may struggle to even qualify in Europa League next year. It got so bad some of the subscribers even asked for a refund once they sold their key players. Already there are rumors Kaka is coming back from Real Madrid, but I'm not sure how much he can contribute at this point. The other Brasilian, Pato is constantly injured.
    On the positive note, Milan played a pretty good Mattia De Schiglio on the right fullback position. He will probably be a substitute for Abate, but definitely a White player to keep an eye on. Finally a player from the youth team who took the place of the black flop Taiwo. Sampdoria's left fullback (who scored a goal) Andrea Costa was the player of the match.
    Very impressive performances by both Juventus as well as Inter (with Sneijder offering a top performance, as he always does when he comes from the left side) and Napoli. Roma started with a home draw against Catania. The "African" Udinese lost their first game against Fiorentina.

    Results:
    Milan - Sampdoria 0:1
    Pescara - Inter 0:3
    Palermo - Napoli 0:3
    Fiorentina - Udinese 2:1
    Siena - Torino 0:0
    Roma - Catania 2:2
    Atalanta - Lazio 0:1
    Genoa - Cagliari 2:0
    Chievo - Bologna 2:0
    Juventus - Parma 2:0

    [TABLE="class: tablehead"]

    [TR="class: oddrow"]
    [TD="width: 100, align: left"]Inter[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: evenrow"]
    [TD="width: 100, align: left"]Napoli[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: oddrow"]
    [TD="width: 100, align: left"]Chievo[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: evenrow"]
    [TD="width: 100, align: left"]Genoa[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: oddrow"]
    [TD="width: 100, align: left"]Juventus[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: evenrow"]
    [TD="width: 100, align: left"]Fiorentina[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: oddrow"]
    [TD="width: 100, align: left"]Lazio[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: evenrow"]
    [TD="width: 100, align: left"]Sampdoria[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: oddrow"]
    [TD="width: 100, align: left"]Catania[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: evenrow"]
    [TD="width: 100, align: left"]AS Roma[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: oddrow"]
    [TD="width: 100, align: left"]Torino[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: evenrow"]
    [TD="width: 100, align: left"]Udinese[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: oddrow"]
    [TD="width: 100, align: left"]Milan[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: evenrow"]
    [TD="width: 100, align: left"]Bologna[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-2[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: oddrow"]
    [TD="width: 100, align: left"]Cagliari[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-2[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: evenrow"]
    [TD="width: 100, align: left"]Parma[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-2[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: oddrow"]
    [TD="width: 100, align: left"]Palermo[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: evenrow"]
    [TD="width: 100, align: left"]US Pescara[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: oddrow"]
    [TD="width: 100, align: left"]Atalanta[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-2[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: evenrow"]
    [TD="width: 100, align: left"]Siena[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-5[/TD]
    [/TR]

    [/TABLE]

    From the standings you can see some teams were penalized for the betting scandal last year.
    Next round the match to play will be Inter - Roma.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
  5. Matra2

    Matra2 Master

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    Good to see Torino back in Serie A. That was the team I followed when I first started watching Serie A. Unfortunately, a lot of the years I've had access to Serie A coverage were seasons when Torino were in Serie B so I usually supported Lazio and Milan instead. (I've never lived in a country where we got Serie B on TV). I definitely won't be cheering for the Rossoneri with their star player Robinho(!) this season.

    Here's Torino's squad for 2012-13:

    http://www.torinofc.it/index.php?option=com_joomleague&func=showPlayers&p=73&tid=705&Itemid=187
     
  6. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    mexes is rumored to have fitness problems
    back then i thought that mexes wasn't good enough for milan, but now...

    they also have acerbi who could play i guess? i never saw him play
    and ofcourse there's bruno uvini who dreams about playing for ac milan

    very bad decision to sell maxi lopez, he was not given any chance to succeed at milan, every time he played he did well but he almost never played

    i won't even mention the latest transfert rumors for ac milan because they are so pathetic

    i don't know if the coach is the one to blame, i don't know him enough
    el shaarawy could be the player intended to draw attention from the arab countries, in this case he would have no other choice but having him as a regular starter ( http://www.castefootball.us/forums/...in-real-madrid?p=251983&viewfull=1#post251983 )
    as for robinho, he's a very expansive player so that's probably why he will always be a titular as long as he stays in ac milan
    the real question is: why is he still at ac milan?
    i saw that allegri insulted robinho for his bad match, not sure about it though


    they seem to have a partnership with senegal
    2 gomis brothers as goalkeepers :clap2: :eek:hwell:
    but good team overall, only ogbonna will play i guess
     
  7. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    another black player for lazio, ciani:

    [​IMG]

    he's a central defender/clown
    his club (bordeaux) played with 3 whites and 8 blacks in their last match, it didn't look even remotely like football
    this guy made french fans laugh a lot, now it's time to show his talent to a new audience i guess
     
  8. Matra2

    Matra2 Master

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    I noticed that but the Belgian Gillet will be their No1. I doubt either brother will get much action unless Gillet is hurt.
     
  9. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

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    Torino are the archrivals of Juventus. It's also the team of the city of Turin (until recently there were many more Torino fans in Turin than juventus fans, however, Juve had many more fans across Italy, especially in the south). I once liked torino as a counter to Juventus which was the team of the Italian establishment (especially the Agnelli family, the owners of the Fiat car manufacturer) and they have a decent team in the 70s. However, Torino dropped from sight for many years, and today Torino is a shadow of its former self, while I can appreciate Juve as a club that always was reluctant to include too many coloreds in their team. And yes, Gillet is the titular goalkeeper, and a great one at that! Let's hope he doesn't get injured.

    Lazio, as mentioned, was traditionally the right-wing nationalistic team (it is rumored that Mussolini himself was a Lazio supporter). Their ultras (the "Irriducibili") are well known for their right wing politics and their dislike of colored players and immigration in general. See, for example this:
    [video=youtube;lacuDK-5FC0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lacuDK-5FC0[/video]

    It is inconceivable the ownership of such a club decided to have not 1, not 2, not 3 but 7 blacks in their roster!
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
  10. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    while it seems totally true that lazio has the most racist fans, i heard that historically the fascit team was as roma, the rivals
    AS roma was technically founded by the fascists, that's why
    that's what shamefull lazio suporters usually say to as roma fans when the topic of fascism is brought up
    but it's possible that both clubs were very close to fascism


    lazio when they had crespo was my 2nd favorite club, after real madrid

    in italy there are a lot of racist suporters:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    these are AS roma fans

    in france there are a lot of right wings suporters too, especially in paris saint germain and lyon
    but you don't see that kind of flags
    in spain sometimes i see these kind of flags too
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
  11. Matra2

    Matra2 Master

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    AS Roma is seen as a team of the Left even though in recent decades as Italy has moved rightwards politically AS Roma now has lots of right wing 'ultra' fan associations. One of the reasons suggested for the anti-Semitism of Lazio supporters is that the Jewish community of Rome traditionally supports AS Roma. I know of a few Italian TV celebrities who are Roma fans and all of them are supporters of the Left. I think Francesco Totti supported the Socialists in an election a few years ago. I'd imagine a lot of their supporters are also government employees who are usually left wing. However, the Wikipedia article on the Rome Derby (Derby della Capitale) says it's a mistake to think Roma fans are left wing.
     
  12. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

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    In the past, Roma was predominantly a left wing team (as opposed to the right-wing Lazio). However in the last 10-15 years Roma fans turned definitely to the right with the creation of several right-wing supporter organizations (Tradizione-Destinazione, Boys)... much to the annoyance of the Lazio fans who saw this as an encroachment on their political turf. There is still a remnant of an old 70s-style left-wing Roma supporter group called "The Fedayins"...
    The Italian police follows the fan scene very closely and releases reports on the fan scene. The last one released - a bit dated, from 2003 - researched the fans from 128 teams in Serie A, Serie B, C1 and C2 (now C1 and C2 are called Lega Pro, as leagues are not called with intuitive names anymore). From these 128 teams, 27 were considered right-wing, 15 left-wing, the others neutral/apolitical (see http://www.asromaultras.org/rapporto0203_connotazione_politica.pdf in Italian). From 2003 with the immigration situation worsened significantlly, and I would say the fan scene there definitely moved to the right. Left wing teams were usually from the traditionally "red" regions like Toscana, Emilia, Liguria, Umbria (Toscana and Emilia were the "blackest" regions under Fascism, but turned completely communist after WWII... these were the strongholds of the Italian communist party, which used to be very strong until the early 90s). The right wing teams mostly come from Rome and the surrounding areas, the North-East, the South. Here's a list of the political preferences (in my opinion) for some teams from the top leagues, this as far as I remember from several years ago and from snippets of info I have found on the web... This is the politics of the organized supporter groups. Most ordinary fans are apolitical.

    Atalanta: Used to be left-wing, but recently a lot of "Lega Nord" right wing separatist movement supporters
    Bologna: Traditionally left wing
    Cagliari: apolitical/neutral
    Chievo Verona: apolitical/neutral
    Fiorentina: Traditionally left wing
    Inter: traditionally right wing (Viking Ultras, Boys) or extreme right-wing
    Juventus: Right-wing (Drughi, Viking) with some extreme right-wing fringes (Fighters, Irriducibili)
    Lazio: Extreme right-wing (Irriducibili, Banda Noantri etc.)
    Livorno: Extreme left-wing (Fronte di Resistenza Ultras, Brigate autonome)
    Milan: apolitical/neutral to left-wing (Fossa dei leoni, Commandos, Brigate Rossonere)
    Palermo: Right-wing (Brigate Rosanero e Warriors Ultras Palermo, Legione-FDG, Skins)
    Parma: apolitical/neutral
    Roma: Right-wing (Boys,Tradizione Distinzione)
    Sampdoria: apolitical/neutral
    Siena: apolitical/neutral
    Udinese: Used to be right-wing
    Genoa: Traditionally left-wing (Vecchi Orsi)
    Torino: Used to be mostly left-wing, now neutral/apolitical/mixed
    Pescara: apolitical/neutral/mixed
    Napoli: Mostly right-wing
    Catania: Mostly right-wing (Boys, Falange d'assalto, Ultras ghetto, Irriducibili)


    Some sides in lower leagues (Serie B and lower):
    Ascoli: Traditionally very right-wing (Gioventu BN, Settembre bianconero)
    Bari: Traditionally right-wing (Arditi, Ultras)
    Brescia: right-wing, "Lega Nord"
    Catanzaro: Traditionally right-wing
    Cesena: apolitical/neutral
    Empoli: left-wing (Rangers,Desperados,Blu Boys)
    Modena: Mostly left-wing
    Perugia: apolitical/neutral
    Piacenza: Right-wing
    Salernitana: right-wing (Viking Salernitana)
    Ternana: Extreme left-wing (Fronte di Resistenza Ultras)
    Treviso: right-wing
    Verona: Extreme right-wing, one of the most racist (Birgate Gialloblu, Gioventù scaligera, Verona Front, Banda
    Loma), some years ago they hung a black puppet during a game when the management wanted to buy a black player who was then not bought
    Varese: Extreme right-wing (Blood & Honour), recently left the game after "their" black player scored, the player is in the process of being sold
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  13. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

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  14. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    the transfert is almost done
    do you remember the first time you saw him? it was here:

    http://www.castefootball.us/forums/...lack-attackers?p=246717&viewfull=1#post246717

    he is featured at 0.40 in the caen video

    here is the new ac milan striker:

    http://www.castefootball.us/forums/...lack-attackers?p=256285&viewfull=1#post256285
     
  15. Matra2

    Matra2 Master

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    Yes, that would be Hellas Verona. About ten years ago British author Tim Parks wrote a book about a season he spent following this Verona team to every match with their ultra fans:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Season-Verona-Illusions-National-Character/dp/0099422670

    One of the things he mentioned was that despite their politics Hellas Verona and Fiorentina fans got along well because they had mutual team enemies so I don't know how much the politics matter.

    Milan might have been left wing in the past but today the team's mostly working class followers vote for the right.
     
  16. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

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    I know this author from his book "Italian Neighbours", he's a good writer. I was looking for a book to read and will definitely take a look.
    Verona won Serie A in 1985 to the astonishment of all, with a very "economical" squad. They fielded the German Briegel (a very physical ex decathlon competitor), the Dane Elkjaer, the ex-Juve reject forward Galderisi and some other good players, great year for them. However - it was downhill from there. They went through the play-offs for serie A promotion this year but lost to Varese, if I'm not wrong (Varese then lost to Sampdoria). They have a large and passionate fan-base, as opposed to Chievo Verona which has very few fans and is a somehow "artificial" team owned by a food-industry magnate for his own entertainment. Hope Verona makes it to serie A next year.

    You're right that Milan traditionally was the team of the working class in Milan (Inter was the team of the bourgeoisie). However after being acquired by Berlusconi, the fan base is mixed, and the working class (or whatever is left of it) indeed increasingly votes for right-wing parties, in Italy as well as in other parts of Europe with the (completely naive) expectation that parties like the Conservatives in the UK or Forza Italia/PDL in Italy or UMP in France will change anything.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  17. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    uvini to napoli? i don't understand italian but it seems that he will play for napoli: http://www.calcionapoli24.it/?action=read&idnotizia=77545
    meanwhile ac milan want yanga mbiwa
    remember that uvini said that he only wanted to play in italy, and that he would have prefered to play in ac milan since his grandfather was from milan
     
  18. Rebajlo

    Rebajlo Mentor

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    Porthos -

    Great work, mate ! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

    All of my favourite clubs (Atalanta, Torino, and Fiorentina) happen to be in the top flight this season...

    I noticed that You count Albanians like Torino's Migjen Basha (who came on in the second half of the season opener against Siena) as Whites. Well, I guess that it's a matter of appearance versus culture but not to worry, everyone's "interpretation" is a bit different... :icon_wink:

    Anyway, an excellent Serie A summary! :thumb:
     
  19. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

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    Some last minute transfers in Serie A:

    Milan bought Bojan Krkic (the Barca reject that didn't do much last year in Roma), and Nigel De Jong (yet another black defensive middlefielder - replacement for Van Bommel?
    Napoli brought Bruno Uvini (Frederic is fond of this player, I'm curious to see him play)
    Genoa brought Marco Boriello (he did decent in Roma, but was sidelined in Juve and Milan, he might do good in a smaller team)
    Fiorentina brought Luca Toni (the 35 years oldtimer from WC 2006 memory... let's go Luca, old guys rule)
    Udinese acquired Ranegie (another Black "Swede"...)
    Juventus acquired Niklas Bendtner (this is a very interesting acquisition, he did great at the Euro 2012 scoring goals for Denmark agains the Netherlands and Germany, quality player in my opinion, could do good in a team with great passers like Pirlo or Marchisio...)
    Bologna acquired Alberto Gilardino (another ex. national team player, will he revive his career in Bologna?)

    Next round played tomorrow and on Sunday will have some interesting games:

    - Bologna - Milan - will Milan show some signs of life? I don't think so, but...
    - Udinese - Juve - I predict an easy Juve victory against the Black-heavy home team
    - Inter - Roma - the derby, a surprise Roma victory is not out of question

    Rebajlo - thanks for the compliments. By the way - rumour has it that Alex Del Piero will end his career playing for Sydney...
     
  20. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

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    Interesting results in this Serie A round.
    Juventus destroyed the heavily Black Udinese in Udine (4:1) with two goals scored by Giovinco, one of my favourite players in Serie A (nicknamed "Atomic Ant" because of his small stature and great energy) and confirmed it is in great shape.
    Roma won over Inter in Milan with a great performace of the ageing Francesco Totti who made two assists.
    Milan won 3:1 over Bologna in Bologna with a hat-trick from Pazzini (whi couldn't score in Inter). This was actually a pretty difficult victory with the game open until the last 12 minutes and Milan benefitting from a ridiculous penalty.
    Only two goals were scored from non-Whites - I.Bedofil (Arab/French) from Parma and E.Cavani (Amerindian/Uruguay) for Napoli.
    Results/table:

    Torino-Pescara 3:0
    Udiniese-Juventus 1:4
    Bologna-Milan 1:3
    Inter-Roma 1:3
    Sampdoria-Siena 2:1
    Cagliari-Atalanta 1:1
    Napoli-Fiorentina 2:1
    Lazio-Palermo 3:0
    Parma-Chievo 2:0
    Catania-Genoa 3:2

    Table[TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: place"]1[/TD]
    [TH="class: team"]Juventus[/TH]
    [TD="class: games-played"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: wins"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: ties"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: losses"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: points"]6[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-for"]6[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-against"]1[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: place"]2[/TD]
    [TH="class: team"]Napoli[/TH]
    [TD="class: games-played"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: wins"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: ties"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: losses"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: points"]6[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-for"]5[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-against"]1[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: place"]3[/TD]
    [TH="class: team"]Lazio[/TH]
    [TD="class: games-played"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: wins"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: ties"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: losses"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: points"]6[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-for"]4[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-against"]0[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: place"]4[/TD]
    [TH="class: team"]Sampdoria[/TH]
    [TD="class: games-played"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: wins"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: ties"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: losses"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: points"]5[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-for"]3[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-against"]1[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: place"]5[/TD]
    [TH="class: team"]AS Roma[/TH]
    [TD="class: games-played"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: wins"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: ties"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: losses"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: points"]4[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-for"]5[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-against"]3[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: place"]6[/TD]
    [TH="class: team"]Catania[/TH]
    [TD="class: games-played"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: wins"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: ties"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: losses"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: points"]4[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-for"]5[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-against"]4[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: place"]7[/TD]
    [TH="class: team"]Torino[/TH]
    [TD="class: games-played"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: wins"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: ties"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: losses"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: points"]3[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-for"]3[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-against"]0[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: place"]8[/TD]
    [TH="class: team"]Genoa[/TH]
    [TD="class: games-played"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: wins"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: ties"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: losses"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: points"]3[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-for"]4[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-against"]3[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: place"]9[/TD]
    [TH="class: team"]Inter Milan[/TH]
    [TD="class: games-played"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: wins"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: ties"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: losses"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: points"]3[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-for"]4[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-against"]3[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: place"]10[/TD]
    [TH="class: team"]AC Milan[/TH]
    [TD="class: games-played"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: wins"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: ties"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: losses"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: points"]3[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-for"]3[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-against"]2[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: place"]11[/TD]
    [TH="class: team"]Fiorentina[/TH]
    [TD="class: games-played"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: wins"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: ties"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: losses"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: points"]3[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-for"]3[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-against"]3[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: place"]12[/TD]
    [TH="class: team"]Chievo Verona[/TH]
    [TD="class: games-played"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: wins"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: ties"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: losses"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: points"]3[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-for"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-against"]2[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: place"]13[/TD]
    [TH="class: team"]Parma[/TH]
    [TD="class: games-played"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: wins"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: ties"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: losses"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: points"]3[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-for"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-against"]2[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: place"]14[/TD]
    [TH="class: team"]Cagliari[/TH]
    [TD="class: games-played"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: wins"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: ties"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: losses"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: points"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-for"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-against"]3[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: place"]15[/TD]
    [TH="class: team"]Udinese[/TH]
    [TD="class: games-played"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: wins"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: ties"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: losses"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: points"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-for"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-against"]6[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: place"]16[/TD]
    [TH="class: team"]Bologna[/TH]
    [TD="class: games-played"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: wins"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: ties"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: losses"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: points"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-for"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-against"]5[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: place"]17[/TD]
    [TH="class: team"]Palermo[/TH]
    [TD="class: games-played"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: wins"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: ties"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: losses"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: points"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-for"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-against"]6[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: place"]18[/TD]
    [TH="class: team"]Pescara[/TH]
    [TD="class: games-played"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: wins"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: ties"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: losses"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: points"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-for"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-against"]6[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: place"]19[/TD]
    [TH="class: team"]Atalanta[/TH]
    [TD="class: games-played"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: wins"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: ties"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: losses"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: points"]-1[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-for"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-against"]2[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: place"]20[/TD]
    [TH="class: team"]Siena[/TH]
    [TD="class: games-played"]2[/TD]
    [TD="class: wins"]0[/TD]
    [TD="class: ties"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: losses"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: points"]-5[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-for"]1[/TD]
    [TD="class: goals-against"]2[/TD]
    [/TR]

    [/TABLE]
     
  21. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    and maxi lopez's team won again!
    they should be leading serie A

    here is maxi lopez's goal: http://youtu.be/Mh1xgc_nGRA?t=1m39s
    there was also a wrongfully disallowed goal scored by maxi lopez

    he wasn't good enough to succeed at ac milan? what a joke!

    [video=youtube_share;wCpVqOXucZY]http://youtu.be/wCpVqOXucZY[/video]
     
  22. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

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    Bendter declared "too fat" for Juve http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2198888/Nicklas-Bendtner-fat-say-Juventus.html It's amazing how fit and lean the players have to be today. When the great Ferenc Puskas signed for Real Madrid in 1958, he was reportedly 15+ kilograms overweight. It is rumored that he maintained his "bonvivant" lifestyle (eating, drinking, ladies) throughout his stay. It didn't matter! He played a prominent role in Real winning La Liga and the champion's league (then called "European Cup") multiple times in the late 50s / early 60s... he scored 242 goals in 262 games for them. How's that for "fat"? Totally different story in today's robotic football where every player has a GPS chip implanted the shoes and must run no less than 10-12 km per game. I'm digressing - it's a topic for the "modern football" thread.

    Alex Del Piero in deed signs for Sydney FC http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...ey-ticket-record/story-fn63e0vj-1226466814829 I think good news for football in Australia, a player I always greatly admired.
     
  23. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

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    i wonder if bendtner would have been considerd overweight during the 2012 euro champs, or if he really put on weight during the vacations
     
  24. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

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    It seems he was given time by Arsene Wenger to find a new team and was not practicing with Arsenal:
    "The Denmark striker was given permission by Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger to miss a large portion of summer training in order to find himself a new club following his year on loan at Sunderland.But the lack of pre-season conditioning has caught up with Bendtner, 24, with Juve coaches saying he is carrying too much weight to play in Serie A."
     
  25. Matra2

    Matra2 Master

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    Milan losing 1-0 at home to Atalanta. Milan look slightly whiter than the last time I saw them - where's Robinho? - but the quality isn't there. This looks like it will be a bad season for the Rossoneri.
     

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