Is Peyton Manning the greatest QB of all-time?

Discussion in 'NFL' started by Carolina Speed, Jan 19, 2014.

  1. Wes Woodhead

    Wes Woodhead Mentor

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2011
    Messages:
    1,104
    I dont have an issue with Moon in the Hall myself. However there are many more deserving white QBs that should be there if he is. So of course one has to come to the conclusion that his skin got him the nod over any other factor.
     
  2. bigunreal

    bigunreal Mentor

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,923
    The problem with putting the likes of Warren Moon, Andre Reed, Claude Humphrey, Michael Irvin, etc. into the HOF is that you open up the doors for hundreds of other just as "qualified" players. As has been noted, there is at least as strong an argument for Dave Kreig and Ken Anderson as there is for Moon (or Jim Kelly, for that matter).

    The real issue is the continued exclusion of so many, many white players at all positions who were simply more accomplished during their careers than the likes of Charlie Sanders, Aaneas Williams, Walter Jones, etc. In fact, the yearly HOF inductees have come to epitomize affirmative action. If you want to see examples of racial quotas on stage, look at that lone white inductee (more often a coach than a player) we see every year at the induction ceremony.

    To return to the topic here, as Wes pointed out in another thread, we have two choices about Peyton Manning. Either we accept that the greatest regular season QB of all time just happens to play like a nervous rookie in every big game, throwing interceptions and wild passes he never normally does, or we have to ask whether he is performing so badly on purpose, to suit someone else's agenda.

    This was the first "fishy" Super Bowl I've seen in a long time, where the referees were not the primary cause of concern (although they did, as predicted, allow the Seahawks to do their usual assault and maul thing). You cannot blame all this on Manning's black teammates. He played with the same mostly black squad all year, and broke all the passing records. He played horribly, and it's perfectly appropriate to ask why he does this routinely in the playoffs.
     
  3. sport historian

    sport historian Master

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,704
    So you're back to "Peyton Manning must be in on the fix?"
     
  4. GiovaniMarcon

    GiovaniMarcon Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,231
    Location:
    Westwood, California
    Speaking as someone from the outside of this argument, it seems like Bigunreal isn't saying that Manning is definitely in on a fix, but that it's a possibility. He also outlined the other possibility: that Manning is simply really good in the regular season, but then el-stinko in the playoffs.

    I personally don't think Manning is in on any fix, but I won't go so far as to say the NFL is a league that's always on the up and up, that never tries to artificially create conditions to suit a desired storyline.

    The fact that many White athletes of equal or superior ability to Blacks are denied a chance to play, while mediocre Blacks are given one opportunity after another, is circumstantial evidence that the NFL (and indeed, many sports) has something fishy going on.

    I won't say that maybe it's just the NFL's problem with pandering to minorities; rather it's society as a whole, and the NFL is an easily-observable microcosm of that.
     
  5. Wes Woodhead

    Wes Woodhead Mentor

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2011
    Messages:
    1,104
    Bigunreal has never said that its absolutely fact that every player, in every game is in on some conspiracy. His tormentors claim thats what he says, but its not. Your correct that bigunreal is merely suggesting possibilities. Many guys arent mentally ready to even acknowledge these possibilities. Therefore they throw out buzz words like "tin foil hat, kook, idiot, stupid, buffoon," and so on.

    I totally, wholeheartedly, understand wanting to believe that our favorite players are all legit, but I also know what my eyes have seen these last few seasons.
     
  6. davidholly

    davidholly Mentor

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1,678
    I don't believe the game was fixed. That said in today's NFL if you want to fix a game just pay off a few members of the offensive line. Even one offensive lineman sabotaging his team is enough to neuter a passing attack.
     
  7. dwid

    dwid Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2008
    Messages:
    4,204
    Location:
    Louisiana
    like a center throwing a terrible snap for a safety on the first play to set the tone of the game? :)

    Manning has always struggled in big games, all the way back to high school. He didnt beat his rival high school team ever, he never beat Florida, Tee Martin won the National Championship for Tenn the year after Payton left. I think he just overthinks things.

    The Saints Colts game was pretty close, and the Saints were just more prepared doing everything they could like onside kick to start the second half. Tracy Porter noticed something on film and made a pick 6, Manning didn't really do terrible in that game.

    So he has one awful Superbowl in his resume. As for getting to the postseason, it has mostly been the Patriots that were the thorn in his side, Bellicheck is a defensive guru and back in the day had better defenses (and more Whites on them), he shut down the greatest show on turf for crying out loud.

    There were some complaints in the early days about Patriots dbs holding/pi, and the league started calling those more reguarly after the first big loss in the post season. I wonder if they will start calling them more often after this Superbowl, because this entire year it was really obvious, someone has to be complaining, like people with real pull.
     
  8. bigunreal

    bigunreal Mentor

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,923
    QBs have traditionally been judged by the number of championships they win. As has been noted, Manning has been the opposite of clutch throughout his playing career, going back to high school. This makes brother Eli's magical play in two Super Bowls all the more mystifying. Maybe less pressure on him?

    I only brought up this issue because there is a tendency here to not criticize the great white players on this forum. Manning, like Favre for most of his career, simply has made a lot of awful throws in big games, ones that he just never makes in the regular season. I'm hardly the only one to notice this. Frankly, I'm amazed that the mainstream media doesn't make more of an issue over this.

    It hurts me to criticize Manning, because I've always admired him, as a player and the way he conducts himself off the field. But his play was just atrocious in the Super Bowl, and he now has a lifetime losing record in the playoffs. That's just unreal.

    If a QB were to "throw" a game, he might very well do, and fail to do, the things Manning did in this past Super Bowl, the one against New Orleans, last year's AFC championship game, etc. Regardless, the contrast couldn't be greater between his regular season and postseason performances.
     
  9. PamelaOC

    PamelaOC Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    515
    That was no conspiracy, that was TMI (Typical Mestizo Incompetence). :smile:

    The center position needs to be as white as quarterback.
     

Share This Page