Culpepper: Leaving Town?

[hollywoodnorth]

Has Culpepper worn out his welcome? I guess his past season was bad enough to merit a trade. I have to admit that his 6-12 TD-Int ratio was awful. I used to be a huge fan of his. I thought he was amazing back in the Randy Moss-Cris Carter-Jake Reed days. I thought he was the complete package (strong arm, accurate, as well as fast and durable)...but he really slipped. I knew he wouldn't do as well without Moss but not like this - he crashed and burned. The Vikes are already shopping him:
Daunte trade talks
Who would they start if he leaves? Brad Johnson? He's OK but has 1 year left, tops. They would have to get Leinart or Cutler or Young in the draft. I hear John Abraham is unhappy in NY, so a trade is possible, seeing how the Jets are not too happy with Pennington and are planning to restructure his contract. The article claims that J.Lewis-for-Culpepper is a possibility. But with all the sex scandals last year, the Vikings already lack team character and discipline, too many players committing crimes. They obvisouly lack chemistry and leadership. So how does bringing in RB J. Lewis, once incarcerated for drug-dealing, once even a murder suspect, improve team morale? The guy has phenomenal talent, but is inconsistent and has a poor reputation. Is he a changed man or will he just make things worse? It's the same gamble as Terrell Owens or any other infamous star. I mean, I guess next year they can hire strippers on a boat AND sell crack, right? The double wammy

.

By the way, Brad Childress just got Joey Goodspeed. He is a former RB-turned-FB and part-time return man/special teams. The Vikes need a FB in their new "West Coast" offense so I guess he will start next year for them. Isn't Kleinsasser a FB? What about Wiggins? Where do they fit in? I also heard Childress say that he needs some new LBs to start for him and is looking at the Giants' Griesen and 49ers D.Smith. I know Griesen is essentially unwanted in NY and all draft sites claim the Giants will pick a LB in round 1. Derek Smith is well-known and productive, there is no way San Fran would let him go. They're also looking at Tommy Polley but he's small, and may not be starting calibre. What's up with Dustin Fox? Is he going to replace Chavous at FS? I know that Moore and Bennett are not considered starting material at RB, and Onteerio Smith is essentially in the doghouse for his "whizzinating" ways. That team is in trouble. I see them drafting LenDale White or DeAngelo Williams in round 1. The defence still needs help despite big names like Sharper, Harris, K. Williams, etc. Wiggins is probably their most dependable receiver - and he's a TE. The offence is lousy without Moss; it shows just how much they used to depend on him...
Edited by: hollywoodnorth1

 

[Cassiodorus]

Good riddance to Culpepper. The forgotten man during his first season was Robert Smith, who made an enormous difference in what the Vikings could do on offense, and took a lot of the pressure off the passing game. Because Smith was a human being instead of a cross between a babboon and a pimp, it was easy for the dimwit sports-commentary class to overlook and forget him.

Christy and Steussie on offensive line didn't hurt, either.

It's hard to imagine a QB who wouldn't perform better than Dulpepper. Maybe Joe Kapp can come out of retirement.

 

[hollywoodnorth]

Cassiodorus; I'm looking for an intelligent conversation not some redneck racism.Edited by: hollywoodnorth1

 

[backrow]

Cassiodorus; I'm looking for an intelligent conversation not some redneck racism.

good reply, hollywood

 

[White Shogun]

Cassiodorus; I'm looking for an intelligent conversation not some redneck racism.

Where did you find racism in his post? Because he said Robert Smith isn't a cross between a baboon and a pimp? Do you automatically associate the words 'baboon' and 'pimp' with blacks? Isn't THAT racist??

There were plenty of comments in your post that one could construe to be racist, like saying that the addition of Jamal Lewis would mean the Vikings could hire prostitutes AND sell crack, a 'double whammy,' as you put it. By the way, don't prostitutes work for pimps?

I agreed with Cassio's comments that Robert Smith (half black, by the way) was the forgotten man behind Culpepper's success.

Its ridiculous for a 30-year old quarterback who just had major reconstructive knee surgery, after a dismal, pathetic season, to ask for a $10 million dollar raise. Only the hyper-inflated egos of 'star' black athletes make them believe they can pull off that kind of heist.

White quarterbacks in the same circumstances will sign for the veteran minimum, if they're lucky enough to be considered for a roster spot at all.

 

[reclaimsocal]

Kleinsasser is a TE primarily, who is used as a lead blocker in the backfield at times. He is considered by many to be the best point of attack blocker from the TE position in the game. Before his latest knee injury he also ran a sub 4.6 40 at 270+ lbs. Under Dennis Green he was shifted to a primarily FB type role and many thought his play dropped off a bit. I would assume that he will remain as a TE on obvious running downs, while Wiggins will come in on obvious passing downs.

The new defensive scheme will mirror what Tampa Bay has done therefore more speed will be needed at LB. Two of the Vikings starters, Sam Cowart & Keith Newman are not expected to return and primary WILL backup and part-time starter Raonall Smith is also expected to walk as he was a "Tice" guy. E.J. Henderson will return in a starting role and Dontarrious Thomas will likely get a shot as well. Heath Farwell excelled as a special teamer last season and looks to return, while Napoleon Harris and Rod Davis roles are uncertain.

As far as Culpepper goes, I say good riddance. The guy only excels when everything is going his way, he wilts under the first signs of trouble. I've seen probably upwards of 75% of his NFL games (being a huge Vikings fan) and I can only recall him rallying the team from behind in the fourth quarter once. I don't know how many times I've sat there and watched him choke under pressure. He is living proof that it takes more then physical prowess to achieve greatness as a Quarterback. Brad Johnson may only be a short term fix, but there are some decent QB prospects to be had in rounds 2-4 (Croyle, Clemmons, D. Olsen, Gradkowski & Jacobs). I don't expect the Vikings to net a first rounder for Culpepper at this point in his career due to the severe injury he suffered last season so I doubt that any of the top 3 guys will be available to them when they select mid round. Another possibility would be to snag a developmental guy from whomever they trade with (Andrew Walter from Oak being one).

The biggest issue facing the Vikings this offseason is rebuilding what was an awful O-Line last year. Bryant McKinnie was largely regarded as the most consistent performer, but he has never impressed me much. The rest of the line was a mess with journeymen like Adam Goldberg, Cory Withrow, Anthony Herrera and Melvin Fowler all starting at one time or another. Marcus Johnson came in as a rookie and was highly inconsistant, Chris Liwienski and Mike Rosenthal were both benched and Matt Birk missed the year due to injury. If the Vikings don't go hard after Jon Runyan and/or Steve Hutchinson I'd be very disappointed. I also look for them to go O-Line first day of the draft.

The final piece will be to find a 20 carry guy at Tailback. Mewelde Moore, Whizzanator, Ciatrick Fason and Adimchinobe Echemandu are all on the roster, but I look for the Vikes to take a RB in round 1 or bring in a stop-gap veteran guy who maybe has another year or two in the tank (J. Lewis, A. Green, etc.).

 

[Cassiodorus]

Cassiodorus; I'm looking for an intelligent conversation not some redneck racism.

What "racism?" Do you really think I mischaracterized the antics of players like Moss, Owens and company?

 

[Guest]

Culpepper does not read defenses. All teams played the same type of defense when the Vikings had Moss, opponents always comitting 2 players to defend him allowed for holes else where in the defense. Without Moss this year you could tell Culpepper didnt knwo what was going on and he looked lost like a rookie even though it was his 6th or 7th year in the league.

 

[hollywoodnorth]

Good point.That may explain the 12 picks to only 6 scores.Edited by: hollywoodnorth1

 

[hollywoodnorth]

Where did you find racism in his post? Because he said Robert Smith isn't a cross between a baboon and a pimp? Do you automatically associate the words 'baboon' and 'pimp' with blacks? Isn't THAT racist??

There were plenty of comments in your post that one could construe to be racist, like saying that the addition of Jamal Lewis would mean the Vikings could hire prostitutes AND sell crack, a 'double whammy,' as you put it. By the way, don't prostitutes work for pimps?

White Shogun: Your argument is puerile. Stop pretending as if you didn't know Cassiodorus was calling Culpepper a cross between a baboon and a pimp. Don't play stupid. As for my comments - you have to come up with a better reply than that. Jamal Lewis WAS in jail and WAS a murder suspect...I never said he committed a crime because he is black, did I? The boat with strippers and crack? Anybody can tell it was a joke...poking fun at last season's Sex Boat Scandal. Edited by: hollywoodnorth1

 

[Cassiodorus]

White shogun: your argument is puerile. Stop pretending as if you didn't know Cassiodorus was calling Culpepper a cross between a baboon and a pimp. Don't play stupid. As for my comments - you have to come up with a better reply than that. Jamal Lewis WAS in jail and WAS a murder suspect...I never said he committed a crime because he is black, did I? The boat with strippers and crack? Anybody can tell it was a joke.

I did not suggest that Culpepper is a cross between a baboon and a pimp, though he's hardly an admirable character, having been indicted on sex-related charges. The reference is to showboats like Moss and Terrell Owens; it is a perfectly fitting description of the attention-hogging mental midgets who populate so much of the NFL.Edited by: Cassiodorus

 

[White Shogun]

hollywood, I'll have to get back to you, I'm too busy looking up 'puerile' right now.

 

[hollywoodnorth]

The reference is to showboats like Moss and Terrell Owens; it is a perfectly fitting description ...

I rest my case.

 

[hollywoodnorth]

puerile


adjective
1. silly: silly or immature, especially in a childish way
2. relating to childhood: relating to or characteristic of childhood


[Late 16th century. Directly or via French puéril]

-pu·er·ile·ly, adverb
-pu·er·il·i·ty , noun
Edited by: hollywoodnorth1

 

[Cassiodorus]

The reference is to showboats like Moss and Terrell Owens; it is a perfectly fitting description ...

I rest my case.

What case? If forum participants here can't endure straight talk about athletes I fail to see the point of the whole enterprise. Is there some more sensitive simile you'd prefer for TO and Moss? "Petulant children?" "Misunderstood genius?"

 

[hollywoodnorth]

It's a start. Let me tell you, "petulant children" is quite a far cry from "a cross between a babboon and a pimp". By the way, "babboon" is actually spelled baboon. Keep up the good work. It's nice to see the subtle improvement. Edited by: hollywoodnorth1

 

[Cassiodorus]

It's a start. Let me tell you, "petulant children" is quite a far cry from "a cross between a babboon and a pimp". By the way, "babboon" is actually spelt baboon. Keep up the good work. It's nice to see the subtle improvement.

Perhaps you've heard of the "typo." Perhaps you're aware the word is not "spelt" but "spelled." In any case I'm afraid I reserve the right not to let others tell me what I can and can't say.

 

[White Shogun]

Too late, Cassio, he has already edited his post to reflect the correct spelling of 'spelled.'

I'm with Cassio on this one Hollywood, I'm not sure what case you've rested or point you've made. In any case, I object to your use of the label 'redneck' as an adjective for 'racism.' There are racists who are not rednecks, and there are rednecks who are not racist. As a one-time redneck myself, I object to your use of the word 'redneck' as pejorative.

Furthermore, there is a thread here on Caste Football in which it is discussed how white men are portrayed as apes in the media. You can find it here. I hope that you will object as strenuously to such description of white men as you do to the use of such primate terminology regarding blacks. .

By the way, I know what "puerile" means. I was merely engaging in persiflage.

 

[hollywoodnorth]

I just saw a commercial for National Car Rental. It went like this: First you read "The fastest game of charades in history". Then you pick up a game of charades in a living room somewhere. A fat, ultra-hairy white guy in a sleeveless undershirt stands up to give a clue and some one shouts out "Planet of the Apes". The fat, hairy guy sheepishly sits back down never having said a word. So now whites are the ones who look like apes. Not sure how much lower the mainstream media can go in their role reversal agenda.

You're right. Commercials should not refer to Caucasian men as being from the "Planet of the Apes", much the same way chat-site members should not refer to African-American athletes as "baboons" or "pimps".

----------------

You're not sure what point I am trying to make, White Shogun? Let me clarify: I said that Cassiodorus made a racist remark, he rebuttles:

The reference is to showboats like Moss and Terrell Owens; it is a perfectly fitting description of the attention-hogging mental midgets who populate so much of the NFL.

Thus:

a cross between a babboon and a pimp

Cassio thinks is a perfectly fitting description .

I said "I rest my case" because I have proven that his remark is a perfectly racist description . Edited by: hollywoodnorth1

 

[hollywoodnorth]

Hollywood...

I don't understand the distinction you're making. I see your point, but hear me out.

From what I read of your posts, it is okay to say things like the addition of a particular black player will create more problems for a team because of crack use and importation of prostitutes, but one cannot LABEL that person a crack dealer or pimp? What is a crack dealer or pimp but one who sells crack and sex??

If Cassio had used another animal, say 'dog' for instance, would this have caused so much ire on your part? Something like, 'those dirty dogs on the Vikings team who had a sex party on that boat...' If he had said the Vikings lost too many games because Culpepper and his crew were too lazy and wasted from partying too much, would that have been racist? Is it the particular animal and stereotype that offended you or something else?

What exactly is allowed and isn't allowed, in your opinion? And why not?

White Shogun, please, I said enough already with the puerile remarks. You know very well I am not refering to dogs, nor would I refer to the team as dogs, frankly I could not care less whether you think the Vikings are a bunch of dogs. Dogs and football players are two very different things. Explain to me where I said:

it is okay to say things like the addition of a particular black player will create more problems for a team

or:

If he had said the Vikings lost too many games because Culpepper and his crew were too lazy and wasted from partying too much, would that have been racist?

Where did I say any of this? Where? Tell me?

I bet if you , White Shogun, read an article saying an athlete is jailed, you wouldn't care. But if the author goes out of his way to mention that the athlete is Caucasian, and implies that being Caucasian may be the reason for his criminal behaviour...you would probably explode in anger.

It is not the addition of an African-American player that might hurt the team morale...it is the addition of a player lacking team character that might hurt the team morale. For adding Shaun Alexander or Steve McNair or Vince Young would certainly do anything but hurt the team morale. I repeat myself, it is not the fact that Jamal Lewis is Afircan-American that makes him a bad addition, it is his potentially bad character that may make him a bad addition. Much the same way Mike Strahan and Rod Harrison said they would not like to have Owens on the team....it's not cause he's African-American, it's because he has shown to act selfish. The same applies to any other athletes of poor character, no matter who they are. Stop seeing things in black-and-white. Who would want Canseco on their team after what he did to his former teammates? Or John Rocker? Or Mike Danton, the hockey player, who conspired to assassinate his agent? Or Ray Caruth? Or Maurice Clarett? Or Marcus Vick?
Edited by: hollywoodnorth1

 

[White Shogun]

Hollywood...

I don't understand the distinction you're making. I see your point, but hear me out.

From what I read of your posts, it is okay to say things like the addition of a particular black player will create more problems for a team because of crack use and importation of prostitutes, but one cannot LABEL that person a crack dealer or pimp? What is a crack dealer or pimp but one who sells crack and sex??

If Cassio had used another animal, say 'dog' for instance, would this have caused so much ire on your part? Something like, 'those dirty dogs on the Vikings team who had a sex party on that boat...' If he had said the Vikings lost too many games because Culpepper and his crew were too lazy and wasted from partying too much, would that have been racist? Is it the particular animal and stereotype that offended you or something else?

What exactly is allowed and isn't allowed, in your opinion? And why not?

 

[hollywoodnorth]

Hollywood...

I don't understand the distinction you're making. I see your point, but hear me out.

From what I read of your posts, it is okay to say things like the addition of a particular black player will create more problems for a team because of crack use and importation of prostitutes, but one cannot LABEL that person a crack dealer or pimp? What is a crack dealer or pimp but one who sells crack and sex??

If Cassio had used another animal, say 'dog' for instance, would this have caused so much ire on your part? Something like, 'those dirty dogs on the Vikings team who had a sex party on that boat...' If he had said the Vikings lost too many games because Culpepper and his crew were too lazy and wasted from partying too much, would that have been racist? Is it the particular animal and stereotype that offended you or something else?

What exactly is allowed and isn't allowed, in your opinion? And why not?

White Shogun, please, I said enough already with the puerile remarks. You know very well I am not refering to dogs, nor would I refer to the team as dogs, frankly I could not care less whether you think the Vikings are a bunch of dogs. Dogs and football players are two very different things. Explain to me where I said:

it is okay to say things like the addition of a particular black player will create more problems for a team

or:

If he had said the Vikings lost too many games because Culpepper and his crew were too lazy and wasted from partying too much, would that have been racist?

Where did I say any of this? Where? Tell me?

I bet if you , White Shogun, read an article saying an athlete is jailed, you wouldn't care. But if the author goes out of his way to mention that the athlete is Caucasian, and implies that being Caucasian may be the reason for his criminal behaviour...you would probably explode in anger.

It is not, White Shogun, the addition of an African-American player that might hurt the team morale...it is the addition of a player lacking team character that might hurt the team morale. For adding Shaun Alexander or Steve McNair or Vince Young would certainly do anything but hurt the team morale. I repeat myself, it is not the fact that Jamal Lewis is Afircan-American that makes him a bad addition, it is his potentially bad character that may make him a bad addition. Much the same way Mike Strahan and Rod Harrison said they would not like to have Owens on the team....it's not cause he's African-American, it's because he has shown to act selfish. The same applies to any other athletes of poor character, no matter who they are. Stop seeing things in black-and-white. Who would want Canseco on their team after what he did to his former teammates? Or John Rocker? Or Mike Danton, the hockey player, who conspired to assassinate his agent? Or Ray Caruth? Or Maurice Clarett? Or Marcus Vick? Or Dre Bly who mouthed off about his teammate, Joey Harrington, to the media?
Edited by: hollywoodnorth1

 

[White Shogun]

Hollywood,
can you not recognize the hypothetical? I gave you examples of statements that are similar in nature to those made by Cassio in order to ask you to clarify your position. I did not say you had made those statements, nor had he. I did not say I think the Vikings are a bunch of dogs, I asked you if a hypothetical person had made such a comment, what would be your reaction. But this is plain even in the quote boxes you pasted into your reply, and probably needs no further explanation for even the casual reader of this forum to grasp that you missed the point entirely, on purpose or otherwise.

You did not describe Jamal Lewis as black, you said that his addition to the Vikings would add crack to the boat parties, along with the prostitutes already provided. Sounds like the label crack dealer and / or pimp are appropriate descriptors of the players involved, don't you?

Now, if you are not aware that the media in general when reporting crimes will often NOT provide the race of the perpetrator, if he is black or minority, you need to pay more attention. The most glaring example was in the case of the Washington D.C. snipers, men who's race was purposely held back by the police on PC grounds.

And finally, it is quite telling that you include John Rocker in your list of players who were murderers, accomplices to murder, men who committed assault, robbery, and engaged in other criminal activity, when Rocker's infamy is limited to his politically incorrect statement about his experience riding on the New York subway. By doing so, you allege that making politically incorrect statements is on par with heinous criminal acts like murder. In today's PC society, they are indeed almost the same. One can be fired or ruined for holding an 'unauthorized' point of view, or making a politically incorrect statement, but men who are convicted of dealing drugs, accessory to murder, and other actual CRIMINAL ACTS are back on the field after four months probation!

 

[Spooge]

Dulpepper threw up lame ducks with hopes that his " Pimps" would run underneath them and make the catches (which Moss did after fowling defenders) Daunted sucked big time after Moss left the team. And Hollywood if your so smart WTF are you doing living in the L.A. area?

 

[backrow]

you are all just a bunch of pimps and baboons anyhow