Christophe Lemaitre "White Lightning" 9.92 and 19.80! -- Part Two

Discussion in 'Track & Field' started by Don Wassall, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. freddie

    freddie Guru

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    This idea has been around for 30 years or more. I remember a Scientific American article giving an analysis of foot contact time, force, and time in air. When I was a sprint coach at that time it was understood micro-improvements of cadence due to "style" adjustment was a major issue. We had 1/100th second stopwatch and did our best in timing over 10 to 20 meters.
     
  2. jacknyc

    jacknyc Master

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    The proof will be in the pudding......and Lemaitre's pudding has been very stale.
     
  3. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    I don't know what he has done on the technical end but he has filled out to a point. He now looks bigger across the traps. Maybe it's natural filling out because like we have mentioned before Caraz has Lemaitre doing training methods that were in vogue in the 60's.
     
  4. Ambrose

    Ambrose Master

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    On the other Lemaitre thread it is now posted he is trying some different methods. Finally he tries something else! With so many sports an athlete has to change his methods once he reaches a plateau. If we all know that why the hell did he just figure it out?
     
  5. McCaffrey Dude

    McCaffrey Dude Mentor

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    I know this happened last year but did anybody see the race where Lemaitre runs down Justin Gatlin to win in the 100 and as much as I despise Gatlin for cheating twice and now running even faster times than when he was cheating, was the only guy that welcomed Lemaitre after the race. The other 7 blacks guys ignored him and I have seen the race footage 3 minutes after the finish line. man black sprinters hate it when a white boy out does them!
     
  6. fernchris55

    fernchris55 Guru

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    I've never seen a sprinters torso quite like Lemaitre's. His upper half looks like a female high jumper with spaghetti for arms. The lower half is as someone mentioned like a giraffes. His shoulders are non-existent. (Superficially looks like Bolt if you ignore his feminine upper torso) The oddest looking sprinter ever?
    His countenance is of a scared "wabbit", as he stands in the blocks, with nervous furtive glances as he tries to stare straight ahead lest he catch a competitors gaze. When the race is over he looks like a ultra-marathoner who just finished running through Death Valley, California. He literally is hyperventilating with bulging eyes. This is whether he wins, draws, or loses. Everyone else is on their way while he's doubled over having a coronary. I think he is so nervous that he barely breathes during the race.
    What's his background? Is he autistic? Poor kid. The best sprinters are not just fast, they are strong mentally with overconfident personalities. Christophe is truly exceptional in that regard as the exception.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2016
  7. elispeedster

    elispeedster Mentor

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    Read the posts from the beginning, you will understand why Lematire has never lived up to his full potential. Just stay away from any posts by RCSMAN.
     
  8. Ambrose

    Ambrose Master

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    Good observations. He needs to pass some time in NYC and learn how to tell people to get the fack out or fack right off. Here he'll get some attitude.
     
  9. fernchris55

    fernchris55 Guru

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    Oh I've never posted, but I have been watching the dueling banjo's of Eli and RCSMAN -- a real love fest. Since this was my first post, I felt the need to address the obvious; no upper body development has retarded his progress. You'd think he was a runner from "Chariots of Fire" in 1924 Paris. Besides that he needs a sports psychologist to help him with his confidence issues. He could also benefit by learning bio-feedback techniques. If his head is fixed, the confidence to try something different will be possible. Maybe Borzov could pay a visit, and like Obi-Wan-Kenobi, show him the "Way of the Sprinter."
     
  10. RCSMAN

    RCSMAN Mentor

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    I can't answer in English because my English is too bad, so I answer in french !


    Vous critiquez la méthode d'entraînement de Carraz mais vous ne savez rien à propos de ça, vous critiquez le club d'entraînement de Carraz vous ne savez même pas que c'est 1 des 3 meilleurs club de France.

    Vos méthodes d'entraînement c'est "american method" = + de muscle, + muscle et + muscle comme GATLIN mais savez vous si c'est efficace, quel est votre référence, car les meilleurs sprinteur américain étaient tous dopés.

    En France nous avons d'autre philosophie d'entraînement, pouvez vous respecter ça, beaucoup de très bons entraineurs n'aiment pas les athlètes musclés, par exemple les entraineurs Carraz ou jacques Piacenta n'aiment pas les athlètes musclés, quel est le résultat de leur philosophie ? Leur philosophie = Christophe Lemaitre, seul athlète blanc sous 10s et Marie José Perec (10.96 100M, 21,99 200M, 48,25 400M, 53,21 400Mh) c'est l'une des plus formidable sprinteuse de l'Histoire donc arrêtez de croire que les méthodes américaine sont les meilleurs, il y'a d'autres méthodes qui mérite le respect et qui sont efficace.

    Arrêtez de croire que les problèmes de Christophe sont à cause des méthodes d'entraînement de Carraz.
     
  11. FootballDad

    FootballDad Hall of Famer

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    Translation, per google:
    You criticize the driving method Carraz but you know nothing about it, you criticize the training club Carraz you do not even know it's one of the 3 best club in France.

    "Your training methods is "American method" = More muscle, and muscle + + muscle GATLIN but as you know if it's effective, what is your reference, because the best American sprinter were all doped.

    In France we have different coaching philosophy, you can respect that, many very good coaches do not like muscular athletes, such as Jacques Piacenta Carraz or coaches do not like muscular athletes, what is the result their philosophy? Their philosophy = Christophe Lemaitre, only white athlete under 10s and Marie Jose Perec (10.96 100M, 21.99 200M, 400M 48.25, 53.21 400Mh) is one of the most formidable sprinter in history so stop to believe that the American methods are the best, there are other methods that deserve respect and are effective.

    Stop believing that the problems are due Christopher training methods of Carraz."

    So, the answer to the above criticism is in effect, "It will come! You shall see! The training methods of the great Master Carraz cannot be beaten! You know nothing of sprint!:p
     
  12. Ambrose

    Ambrose Master

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    Car vous avez ecriver en Français j'essai vous répondez en le même.

    À quoi sa sert d'entrainer chez un des meilleurs clubs si son performance s'ameliore pas?

    Le fait que les meilleurs sprinters son musclés n'est pas un indication qu'un torse musclé s'aide au acceleration (sa faibless primaire)? La `tire`au début d'une course est assistée par la puissance du torse.

    La seul plainte que j'ai, et la pluspart d'ici, c'est quand ont voient un athlète ayant un capacité naturel si élevé que lui, ont le trouvent incroyable qu'il ne poursuive pas tout possiblité d'attaindre le but d'etre le non-pareille du monde.
     
  13. jacknyc

    jacknyc Master

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    I don't think French coaching methods had much to do with his success.
    He burst on the scene as an extremely talented teenager and ran his fastest times from the ages of 19 to 21 yrs old.
    After that, the more time and coaching he got with Carraz, the slower his times got.

    Anyway, there's no need to talk about Lemaitre any more. We're all just repeating our opinions over and over. Unless he actually does something reminiscent of his younger years. Otherwise this is a dead horse of a topic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2016
  14. Texas Flash

    Texas Flash Newbie

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    Certainly there is value to different training approaches. And you certainly dont have to become overly muscular to be fast. But the main reason for lifting heavy and explosively is not to grow muscles and brute strength. It is to train the body to recruit more muscle fibers instantaneously to perform work. The effect of lifting heavy and muscle fiber recruitment has been proven time and time again. To leave this out of a sprinter's regime is to leave a lot on the table. Ultimately the athlete who can recruit the most muscle fibers in an instant, and then can relax as many of them as possible in the next instant is going to win. I'm a big believer in technique, but in the 100m if you dont have raw power you have no chance.
     
  15. greyghost

    greyghost Mentor

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    Well ...I reckon ..I have to wade in on this debate ...as I get around Europe and am more than familiar with euro track scene as an ex athlete and now involved with mentoring ......so ....firstly club athletics in France mean nothing .....period ...lemaitre should be going to Stuart McMillan or Loren seagrave .....if he didn't lack fear he would have another coach ( remember at pro level there is no ,! Loyalty unless like bolt you get your drugs from your coach ) ....,there are no world class sprint coaches in Europe...period ....lemaitre has to go to the states and base himself there ....then he may medal big time by 2024 .......or at the very least lemaitre and vicaut have to train together regularly ......I reckon Carraz has some sort of hold on him when he should be telling him it's time to move on ....so if you are lemaitre ..what do you do ....simple ...again .....McMillan ...reider ...Dan Pfaff...seagrave ......just look ath amount of athletes these guys have had their hands on ........sprinting has never been about color but ....it has always been about the art of coaching and the lack of fear to really not be afraid to actually succeed.....now there we go enough said ........
     
  16. greyghost

    greyghost Mentor

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    One thing I will say ...is that Christophe had a dodgy hamstring and left quad last year which definiteltly hampered him ....fact ....but one never lets the opposition know ones weaknesses ....
     
  17. RCSMAN

    RCSMAN Mentor

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    "He burst on the scene as an extremely talented teenager and ran his fastest times from the ages of 19 to 21 yrs old."

    yes like BOLT, Bolt is faster than 2009, NO !

    his records are old, 7 years old !

    Where is Kiryu ? where is Kristoffer Hari ? etc...

    It's not so easy...

    You can be great every yearn run faster, with doping, but clean it's not the same reality.

    the trainer of Vicaut said "the problem of Christophe is mental, he think to much about his technical gesture et he is slower, Carraz say the same thing.
    In 2011, Christophe was faster between 0-30M because he was very young and spontaneous, he runs natural way, now he think to much about his technical gesture, he is stronger in last 50M but very slow in first 50M.
    Check his races in indoor, he runs 6.63, he runs slower although his technic is better, more muscles but he is less spontaneous.

    His body changed, his technical gesture changed, he is less spontaneous, for now it's difficult for him to assimilate these changes

    look his semi final in 2013 at Moscou, his start is very bad but he runs fast 10.00 (0,4)

    In 2012, 2013, 2014, Christophe ran fast with a start slower than 2011

     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2016
  18. RCSMAN

    RCSMAN Mentor

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    FIRST, thank you for your french

    "Le fait que les meilleurs sprinters son musclés n'est pas un indication"

    no because the best sprinters are doped, where is the real indication.

    Mennea, perec wasn't muscular and they was the best in the world, Christophe is not muscular and he is the best white sprinter in the world, kim collins is one of the best in the world in the first 50M, is he muscular, NO !

    the QUESTION is, if the muscular sprinter wasn't doped, they would run faster than a not muscular sprinter, i'm not sure ?
     
  19. jacknyc

    jacknyc Master

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    Like I said, at this point there's really no need for further discussion about Lemaitre.
    It's a fact that he has not run as fast in the past several years, as he had when he was a youngster.
    Our opinions vary about the reasons for that, and we have all repeated them over and over.
    There's nothing more to be said until Lemaitre gets on the track and shows us something.
     
  20. FootballDad

    FootballDad Hall of Famer

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    NO! It will come, you will see! You know nothing of sprint! :D
     
  21. fernchris55

    fernchris55 Guru

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    I chuckle when I hear people say that so and so is "clean" because they are not overly muscular. For example Mennea who admitted using HGH (prior to its banning) was a lean specimen. He expended his PED energies mostly on the track, not in the weight room. Even if he had never "confessed" -- his training regimen was a dead give away. His track workload was incredible and recoveries very short. I remember reading in Track & Field News, back in 1977 or 1978, Steve Williams and Steve Riddick describing Mennea's training as inhuman and unbelievable. Well that's what PED's can do for you. Another slender example: Marita Koch (of East German infamy) though lithesome like a gazelle, was juicing. Her training, like Mennea's, was heavy on the track portion, not the weight room.
    Lemaitre without PED's could improve his upper body strength in order to get out of the blocks quicker and get up to speed sooner. That and learning to relax and breathe properly (can't do one without the other) while running could squeeze a few more hundredths of a second out of him. His top end will not improve but by learning to run relaxed he could extend his speed endurance, especially in the 200 meters.
    If he hasn't hit the weights after all this time (aversion?) at least the relaxation techniques could be learned via bio-feedback, yogic practice and sports psychological counseling. Borzov was trained to sprint with a cardboard tube in his mouth where the goal was to not leave teeth imprints. His coach said that's when you become a sprinter. Young grasshopper.
     
  22. elispeedster

    elispeedster Mentor

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    Anyone know when/where Lemaitre's first outdoor race is?
     
  23. elispeedster

    elispeedster Mentor

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    More excuses.... Don't compare Lemaitre to kiyro,hari, etc...they do not have the natural speed as Lemaitre. Lemaitre can't adapt to changes because his coach is a ill informed amateur that wants all the credit. If Lemaitre left caraz he would break all his bests, carax does not want this. I was hoping Laurence bily would of taken more responsibility in training and fixing caraz's mistakes
     
  24. RCSMAN

    RCSMAN Mentor

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    "his coach is a ill informed amateur that wants all the credit"

    you criticize Carraz but you don't know him and you don't know his way to train, it's stupid !

    "ill informed" lol for your information, Carraz is a trainer for 50 years, he know everything about track and field, he's a volunteer = no income (i don't know if it's the right word in english)


    you're a disrespectful person, Carraz is a good trainer and a great person.
     
  25. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    Yes in the past an overly muscular bearish type 100 meter runner was a definite give away of PED usage. But these days with micro dosing and HGH usage many sprinters aren't unusually muscular. But if a clean athlete tries to copy their training routine they will either break down or poop out and not peak properly for major meets.

    Paul Hession talked about this when he went to "Yamaica" and trained with one of the drug camps and felt knackered after doing the exercises the Jamaicans routinely do.
     

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