Baseball Hall of Fame class of 2018

Discussion in 'Baseball' started by white is right, Jan 25, 2018.

  1. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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  2. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    Glad to see Jones and especially Thome get in their first year of eligibility. Hoffman is also very worthy.

    But screw the Veterans Committee, it should have been abolished about 40 years ago. If Morris and Trammell weren't found worthy by the writers who were their peers and covered their careers at the time they played, they shouldn't get in, period.
     
  3. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    In regards to Morris I don't know about that as he didn't get the magical last year support that Rice,Blyeleven and Raines got but his case was no worse than theirs(IMO).
    As for Trammell he was more borderline, the real head scratcher to me was how Ted Simmons was one vote short of getting inducted. As far as I know he never had any traction during the regular ballot. He will probably get in at some point in the future.
     
  4. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    The Veterans Committee was founded to induct worthy players from the 1890s and early 1900s, along with umpires, managers, executives, etc. But after those individuals got in, the Veterans Committee unfortunately has evolved into a "second chance" for players who didn't make it when the writers who covered their careers voted but later became sentimental choices and got in that way. It's become a typical bureaucracy or committee; once formed and its purpose served, instead of disbanding it continues on and on, finding new ways to justify its unneeded existence.

    I remember Morris and Trammell very well, both were gritty, outstanding players, but both fell short of making it during that long 15 year period when they could have been elected (recently shortened to 10 years but Morris and Trammell had the full 15). They didn't make it and it should have ended there.
     
  5. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    Part of the problem with the 15 year period is the writers put marginal hall of fame players on hold until about their final 3 or 4 years and then their totals magically mushroomed to around 70 percent with a year to go and then voila, they became hall of fame members.

    In Morris' case was on the cusp and then only got a marginal final year push. I agree that the type of player that has been elected in this format has been a popular guy more than a worthy.

    PS. I looked it up and Simmons didn't make it past his first year on the ballot, if Simmons is going to magically be on the cusp of the hall of fame then Dewey Evans should be too but he wasn't even on the ballot in December....
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
  6. sport historian

    sport historian Master

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    It's much the same with the Pro Football HOF. The big question at this year's announcement during Super Bowl week is if Jerry Kramer finally gets voted in as a Senior's Committee selection.
     
  7. knightedsoldier5000

    knightedsoldier5000 Guru

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    Thome, the greatest non-cheating HR hitter since Babe Ruth ! Although Stanton is slightly ahead of him at his point in his career.

    Rank
    Player (yrs, age)
    AB per HR
    Bats
    1.
    Mark McGwire (16)
    10.61
    R
    2.
    Babe Ruth+ (22)
    11.76
    L
    3.
    Barry Bonds (22)
    12.92
    L
    4.
    Giancarlo Stanton (8, 27)
    13.40
    R
    5.
    Jim Thome+ (22)
    13.76
    L
    6.
    Ralph Kiner+ (10)
    14.11
    R
    7.
    Harmon Killebrew+ (22)
    14.22
    R
    8.
    Sammy Sosa (18)
    14.47
    R
    9.
    Ted Williams+ (19)
    14.79
    L
    10.
    Manny Ramirez (19)
    14.85
    R
     
  8. knightedsoldier5000

    knightedsoldier5000 Guru

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    I wouldn't vote any modern day closers into the HOF. Coming into the 9th inning with a 4 run lead and getting 2 outs and "earning" a save is the biggest crock. Saves are meaningless. They need a new stat for 2 inning saves, 3 inning saves, etc. Those are real saves, not the cheap 2 out saves.
     
  9. Carolina Speed

    Carolina Speed Master

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    Although I liked Trammell a lot, based on numbers I'm not sure Trammell deserved to get in. However, his career WAR, (70.4) is better than these HOF:
    Barry Larkin, Dave Winfield, Willie McCovey, Duke Snider, Rhyne Sandberg, Carl Hubbell, Carlton Fisk, Al Simmons, Jim Palmer, Tony Gwynn, Tim Raines, and Craig Biggio. I know, crazy. So much for WAR, I guess. There's more, but those are some recognizable names that Trammell has a better WAR than!
    BTW, Trammell is tied for 93rd place all time in career WAR!
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  10. Flint

    Flint Mentor Staff Member

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    I think the Trammell and Morris elections to the HOF are a great way to make up for them having been cheated out of election in the past. Trammell was an outstanding shortstop, his stats are nearly identical to Barry Larkin. Larkin sailed into the Hall after 3 years.

    Trammell hit .285/.352/.415 with 185 HR’s, 412 doubles and 236 SB’s in his 20-year career. And while Trammell never won an MVP (he did win a WS MVP) award like Larkin did, his 1987 season trumps any season Larkin had. Trammell hit .343/402/.551 with 28 HR’s and 21 SB’s. He finished second in the MVP voting to George Bell that season. (Another black privilege travesty)

    Larkin had a .295/.371/.444 slash line with 198 HR’s, 441 doubles and 379 SB’s in his 19-year career. He also won the NL MVP award in 1995, won nine Silver Slugger awards.

    Jack Morris is another story. His stats don't play well with today's stat people but he was a big game pitcher that starred for several teams. He has the most wins of any pitcher in the 1980's. I don't think his election cheapens the HOF.

    Probably the most deserving Tiger of that era was Lou Whitaker, whose career stats make him one of the 10 best 2nd baseman ever. But that's a discussion for another day.
     
  11. DixieDestroyer

    DixieDestroyer Hall of Famer

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    Ditto!
     
  12. DixieDestroyer

    DixieDestroyer Hall of Famer

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    His baseball achievements aside, Chipper Jones has jumped on this anti-2nd Amendment freedoms push. Cuckold, philanderer Jones has says no citizens should own an “assault” rifle. That’s a total BS statement on many fronts. Protection against a tyrannical government is exactly why law abiding true Americans should have access to FULL auto firearms (without a class 3 license).

    https://www.ajc.com/sports/baseball...ns-own-assault-rifles/ow9GkpYvRJdlrQmJWm2SEI/
     
  13. booth

    booth Guru

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    I agree with you DD 100% . He would not be talking his crazy talk if they were going after his hunting rifles and shot guns.
     
  14. knightedsoldier5000

    knightedsoldier5000 Guru

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    I have to say I don't think Trammel or Morris come close to deserving HOF selection. But the HOF has been watered down so much with players like Jim Rice getting in, it makes their selection a lot more justifiable. Now that such borderline players got in, you have to think a guy like Jim Edmonds has a shot.

    It's an absolute crime that Dale Murphy never got in. And again, now that Trammel and Morris are in, Murphy absolutely deserves it.
     

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