athletics shows caste american sports

Discussion in 'Track & Field' started by waterbed, Jul 30, 2010.

  1. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    Male athletes
    100 meter sub 10200 meter sub 20
    70 blacks37 blacks
    1 white( and 2 mixed ) 3 whites
    0 mongoloids0 mongoloids
    0 arabs0 arabs
    0 Indians0 Indians
    "¢Both the mixed gardener and Johnston have white in them
    400 meter sub 44800 meters sub 1.44
    8 blacks72 blacks
    1 white22 whites
    0 mongoloids 2 arabs
    0 arabs0 mongolids
    0 indians 0indians
    "¢From 400 to 800 meters there comes a switching from west to east African blacks.

    1500 meter sub 3.30one mile sub 3.50
    10 blacks 23 whites
    5arabs 22 blacks
    4whites( and 1 mixed)4 arabs
    0 mongoloids 0 mongoloids
    0 indians 0 indians

    "¢An arab has the world record 1500 and one mile Hicham El Guerrouj but you see above white black and arab are neck a neck. This can be seen above more whites have run mile sub 3.50 but an arab has the world record well blacks have most sub 3.30 1500 meter.
    "¢As the distances become longer the 3000 meters the % blacks in the top rices and dominate. In the marathon blacks have the best times with some arabs , mongoloids and whites in the top.
    "¢Whites have 2nd best times in sprint and mongoloids are close in 100 a bit in 200 but not in 400 meter. They are a few or a little more in the 100 but over 10% of 200 to 400 meter list.
    "¢When your second but only a few in the toplist you get 1 point
    "¢ Middle distances as 1500, mile, blacks, whites, arabs similar. Mongoloids not found in the top list.
    "¢Long distances as the marathon blacks the best times , and arabs 2nd and whites and mongoloids close.
    "¢In points from 3 the best to 0 not in the top list or only like a few .
    "¢Blacks 9 points : 3 for west African descendant sprinters , 3 for east African middle distance and 3 for long distance
    "¢Whites 7 points: not differences like east and west Africans in running between Europeans , 2 for sprinting, 3 for middle distance and 2 for long distance
    "¢Arabs 5 points : 3 for middle distance and 2 for long distance.
    "¢Mongoloids 3 points : 1 for sprinting and 2 for long distance .
    "¢Indians : good at cricket.
    "¢I did not include hurdles only small% practice it ,most participating from athletes that are not good enough for the top without hurdles so a bit biased results.
    "¢I did give the same points when they were similar within around 1 % in the distances. Mongoloids nearly as fast as whites in the 100 but in 200meters 2% and in 400 even a lot more so that why they have a point less.

    Strength speed Explosiveness technicall ( you have to be more allround then a weightlifter). Arabs can weightlift good just as whites, but are not found in top list 100 meter.

    Shot put over 22 meters discuss throw over 70 meters
    18 whites18 whites
    1 mixed (Reese Hoffa white , black parent)2 blacks
    0 arabs0 arabs
    0 mongoloids 0 mongoloids
    0 indians0 indians

    Javelin throw over 90 meters hammer throw over 80 meters
    12 whites97 whites
    0 blacks1 mixed ( Japanese with a white parent)
    0 arabs0 arabs
    0 mongoloids0 mongoloids
    0 indians0 indians
    "¢Seem athletic ability needed in discuss as in hammer and to get 9 points again lets exclude it.
    "¢Whites 9 points: 3 for shot put, 3 for discuss and 3 for javelin
    "¢Blacks : 2 for discuss
    "¢Arabs :2 point: 1 for being in top list shot put, 1 for discuss,
    "¢Mongoloids 1 point: for being in top list top 100 javelin throw.

    Jumping; Long jump, triple jump and high jump
    Long jump over 8.50 triple jump over 17.50 meter
    14 blacks 28 whites ( and one mixed mulatto)
    4 whites28 blacks
    0 arabs1 mongoloid
    0 mongoloids 0 arabs
    0 indians0 indians

    High jump higher then 2.35
    34 whites
    9 blacks
    1 mongoloid
    0 arabs
    0 mongoloids
    0 indians

    "¢The wr holder is black in high jump but majority top list white.
    "¢White 8 points points: 2 for long jump , 3 for triple jump and 3 for high jump
    "¢Blacks 8 points: 3 for long jump , 3 for triple jump and 2 for high jump.
    "¢Mongoloids 3 points: 1 for high jump, 1 for triple jump and 1 for high jump
    "¢Arabs 2 points : 1 point for top list high jump and 1 point for long jump
    Total points for whites 24: 9 for strength, technical , explosive , speed,8 points for jumping and 7 for running.
    Total points blacks 19: 9 for running, 8 for jumping and 2 for combination strength , technical explosive, speed.
    Total points arabs 9: 5 for running, 2 for strength, technical explosive speed and 2 for jumping
    Total points mongoloids 7 points: 3 for running, 3 for jumping and 1 for strength, technical explosive , speed.
    Total points Indians 0
    I forgot to mention pole vault over higher then 6 meters
    10 whites
    0 blacks
    0 arabs
    0 mongoloids
    0 indians

    Check if my points can be about right by checking out decathlon
    Decathlon above 8800 points
    4 whites maybe you can say 5 whites 2 mixed race because one looks only slightly non white( dan o'brian)
    3 mixed race

    Top list 82 whites , 12 mixed race looking and blacks. Even more whites then I thought but it includes only 100 meter that is very non white domination.
     
  2. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    so why so few whites in basketball, american football huh?
     
  3. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    i made this in word and then did copy paste, and came out a bit clumsy.
    when i said they are over 10% of 400 meter iaaf i did mean whites not mongoloids.

    my conclusions blacks dominate running but a bit less then whites do strength,In jumping whites and blacks are the same.there is no difference in running between west-east euros but for blacks it's different west african descendants don't have the endurance of east africans so that is why i think even in running overall blacks do not dominate whites because nearly all blacks in teamsports in football,soccer are of west african descent.In shot put you see that east european whites dominate but some italians germans etc. in the mix too.
     
  4. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    the notes can be read but not the statistics
    from the events so i try it another way

    sub 10 in the 100 meter: 70 blacks, 2mixed, 1 white
    sub 20 in the 200 meters:37 blacks , 3 whites,
    sub 44 in the 400 meters : 8 blacks , 1 white,
    800 meters sub 1.44: 72 blacks, 22 whites, 2 arabs,
    1500 meters sub 3.30: 10 blacks , 5 arabs, 4 whites
    one mile : 23 whites, 22 blacks 4 arabs
    shot put over 22 meters 18 whites, 1 mixed
    discuss throw over 70 meters: 18 whites, 2 blacks
    javelin over 90 meters: 12 whites
    hammer throw over 80 meters: 97 whites 1 mixed
    long jump over 8.50: 14 blacks , 4 whites
    triple jump over 17.50 meter: 28 whites, 28 blacks
    and 1 MONGOLOID!!!!!!!!!
    high jump over 2.35: 34 whites, 9 blacks and 1 mongoloid again.
    long distances: blacks dominate and mongoloids similair to whites,
    which is not often seen see list above.
    i did not include hurdles because most participation is small,
    and is done often by athletes not fast enough without hurdles.
    but in 1 hurdle event mongoloid faster then white 110 meter hurdles.
    in marathon mongoloid 1 second faster then fastest white.
    but in nearly everything its between whites and blacks.
    sprints : west blacks 1 and whites second fastest espacially 200, 400 meter
    middle distances: east blacks whites mongolids arabs the same.
    long distance : east blacks best result, others similair.
    javelin, shout put , hammer, discuss throw whites very dominant.
    decathlon : whites very dominant.
     
  5. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    middle distances have to be east african arabs whites similair not mongoloids.
     
  6. Observer

    Observer Mentor

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    Thanks, waterbed, for the work in compiling this. This is an interesting piece of work. In a way, this kind of makes sense, with whites having a good mix, but with a tendency for there to be some trade-offs in having a powerful body for throwing perhaps not being an optimal package for very short or very long running events. Blacks, whether east or west, fairly consistently have long limbs for heat dissipation, although their other characteristics of power and endurance vary dramatically by their region of origin. And I still don't understand the Asian results of decent results in short or long, but not in the middle distances.

    With all that being said about genetic tendencies, I don't know if I really believe it. I wonder what an analysis at the Junior level would find? After following the Juniors for a few years, and how the results changes at the senior level, I think that socio-economic-political factors must play a very large role. The Juniors are all pretty much on a fairly even footing of "mom & dad" without a substantial support structure of university or government. It is also interesting to note, that east Africans born and raised in Western countries do not seem to have this long-distance edge (at least to my knowledge).
     
  7. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    thanks.it could be part genetic part not.

    if you look to throwing,jumping,long-middle-short distance.

    the best results for arabs is middle and long distance in which they have similair results to whites.all other things less.

    the best results for mongoloids is long distance is which they are similair to whites.and are close in the shortest sprint 100 meter all other events less.



    (west blacks) best results are in the sprint in which they have the best results,whites being second best , similiar to whites in jumping ,east africans have better results at long distance , and a similair in middle distance, other events less.

    i read that mongoloids have 10% smaller lungs than whites at the same size.have 10% smaller build at the same size this is why they now made a different bmi index for healthy weight including ethncity.So they are at the same size on avarage 10% smaller build and 20% smaller lungs.in the long distance they have skinnier bodies then skinny whites is advantage but smaller lungs at same size disadvatage.this is very simple but it could be right.

    of course social comes into play but in holland we have only very thin % of the dutch does athletics( and you can't choose sports with school)and you get only money when you have started good results, but mostly not enough money that you can live from it that is only when you're world class.

    But still our record points in decathlon is 8447,discuss throw 68.12, shot put 21.62 and a middle distance as 800 meters 1.43.45
    1500 meters 3.32.89 on mile 3.51.39 all hold by white dutch and all the above better then the best chinese( over 1 billion population) even better then all east asians.at their best events spriting 100 meter and long distances they have better record then white dutch in the 100 meter, 4 east asian
    have run sub 10.10 on their very fast tracks were the fastest white dutch is 10.15.also a few have run faster 200 meter, In the long distance they have more then a few faster runners then our tiny holland but again it's their best event along 100 meters.
     
  8. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    i think the advantage for shot put is that white dutch are on 6-1 feet and average chinese 5.7, 5-7 to 6-1 is 2 SD so thats mean around 1 in 40 chinese is 6-1 feet or more.so chinese have with their 1.3 million people around 2.5 more tall people then the slighly less then 13 million white dutch.Caucasian is on average 10% heavier build , 1 sd is 8-9, % 10 is 1.2 sd that means at the same height whites are 7 out of 8 times bigger.most shot putters are at least 6-1 so i think because their are only 2.5 times more tall people in china then in holland and whites are at the same height 7 out 8 times bigger which is more then the 2.5 more chinese tall people, dutch have a bit advantage at shot put and discuss etc. to the 1.3 billion chinese.
     
  9. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    cauacasians are on average 10 % heavier build but this is at the same height.but 10% taller people are on average 20% heavier, which means 10% stronger on average.chinese are on average 9% shorther which means 9% lighter build on average + whites 10% heavier build at the same height is 19% which is again 2.3 sd( 1 in less then 300) or so which is similair result to post above.300/100 more chinese people is again the same.
     
  10. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    it's 50:2.5 is 20 so 5 times more chinese tall people not 2.5 times, but i will stop with the calculating lol
     
  11. freddie

    freddie Guru

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    Waterbed: thanks for your analysis of the data. Do you have any conclusions; or is your conclusion that the numbers speak for themselves? IMHO the definitive work on the subject of race and "outcomes"Â￾ (track performance is a very obvious type of outcome) was written by Thomas Sowell (Race and Culture - a Worldview). Sowell showed, after a decade of research of cultures around the globe, that culture has far more impact than genetics (or any other factor) on the social and economic outcomes of nations and groups. As far as most track events are concerned White prevailing culture believes Whites are inferior (just look at the media and popular culture) and Black prevailing culture believes Blacks are superior (confidence?). The complete reverse is true for academic subjects like physics and mathematics.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" />
    Potential for excellence in sports is, as far as I can tell, related to one other overriding factor - body geometry. For an extreme example: if you are knock-kneed and flat-footed it will be difficult to excel in running. Body geometry does not just mean height and bulk but numerous small thinks like the shape and size of bones and joints. It has nothing to do with race other than perhaps an <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">indirect[/I] one related to global statistical distributions of these factors (e.g.: on average some oriental races are not as tall as other groups). The popular fast-twitch muscle theory of 20 years ago has not been supported by a <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">rigorous[/I] scientific study.
     
  12. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    in sprinting i think body built doesn't mather much.but it does in some other disciplines.like i said earlier, that holland has better middle distance, shot put, discuss throw, decathlon records then east asia totally can't be all cultural, we don't have a very sporty culture and have less then 13 million white dutch in this country.

    In very event athletics we are the best or only one race has better results sometimes with others similair, in some events arabs are similair and in a few mongoloids.so i made a point system with 0 points not being in the top list event, 1 for a few ,2 for second best , 3 for the best results.I did take long-middel and sprinting and toke 3 throwings events and 3 jumping.

    i came to 24 points for whites: 9 for throwing, 8 for jumping and 7 for running

    19 points for blacks: 9 running 8 jumping and 2
    strength, technical explosive , speed

    arabs 9 points: 5 for running,2 throwing
    and 2 for strength, technical explosive , speed


    mongoloids 7 points: 3 for running, 3 for jumping and 1
    strength, technical explosive , speed
     
  13. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    Total points for whites 24: 9 for strength, technical , explosive , speed,8 points for jumping and 7 for running.
    Total points blacks 19: 9 for running, 8 for jumping and 2 for combination strength , technical explosive, speed.
    Total points arabs 9: 5 for running, 2 for strength, technical explosive speed and 2 for jumping
    Total points mongoloids 7 points: 3 for running, 3 for jumping and 1 for strength, technical explosive , speed.
     
  14. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    Total points for whites 24: 9 for strength, technical , explosive , speed,8 points for jumping and 7 for running.
    Total points blacks 19: 9 for running, 8 for jumping and 2 for combination strength , technical explosive, speed.
    Total points arabs 9: 5 for running, 2 for strength, technical explosive speed and 2 for jumping
    Total points mongoloids 7 points: 3 for running, 3 for jumping and 1 for strength, technical explosive , speed.


    how i came to this i worked out in a programm tryed to posted it but didn't work so well, most of you will now not understand it I think
     
  15. freddie

    freddie Guru

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    Waterbed: I really appreciate your approach and I would love to see a fully completed work - but how would you explain the amazing proficiency of the Finns in the Javelin or the Dutch in speed skating. Surely it is a cultural love of the event and not some national physical attribute. Of course, it couldbe argued that those countries love the event because they are "naturally"(genetically)good at it -but I really doubt that. Lots of fun discussing this, by the way. Please let me know if I am misunderstanding something. From my persepctive, Canada, the Dutch have a great sporting culture.
     
  16. Observer

    Observer Mentor

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    There is a small town near here with a predominately Finnish population. It is noticeable to me that they are deep in the chest, front-to-back. I have no idea if this explains javelin throwing success, and maybe it is just a quirk that I am imagining and extrapolating from a few individuals.

    But maybe javelin throwing simply never left the Finnish culture, going back to the most ancient days: "Of modern nationalities, Finns are closest to Cro-Magnons in terms of anthropological measurements" Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns and

    Origin of the Baltic-Finns from the Physical Anthropological Point of View

    I agree, these things can make for an interesting discussion.
     
  17. Observer

    Observer Mentor

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    And the fact that they are giants doesn't hurt!
     
  18. Observer

    Observer Mentor

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    waterbed, a side question because I know you are good at this: what would you say is the true racial background of (a) Merlene Ottey, and (b) Marion Jones?
     
  19. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    I just thought we dutch having a whole bunch of times records better then the best east asian can be all non genetic, were 13 million whites and very few do athletics.

    about speed skating, that we do great is because we have a speed skating culture at least this is mainly against other whites.But in speed skating you see again that the east asians( they like it too espacially japanese) can compete with whites in the 500 meter, 1000 meters but in very few in the longer distances( 2000, 5000) that are all middle distances because the longest distance is only 10 km which is only 12-13 minutes for the elites riders.you see often in the 500 meters that the east asians have a chance to win when they are faster in the first 100 meters, if they don't they nearly always lose because of the high topsspeed of the whites that are nearly always heavier which is good for top speed on ice.
     
  20. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    Marlene ottey is great mayority black could have a bit east asian.

    Marion Jones very mixed looks more then 2 races which makes it tricky
    but my estimation 45% black, indian 25%, 15 white, 15% native.
    but their are not may indian people in us so maybe it's just the native + white,which can give a bit indian look also.
    maybe 45% black 30 native and 25 % white.
    when someone looks just 2 races it is easier for me lol.
     
  21. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    what i also find hard to see is if someone is biracial( black/white) or lightskinned black( with some features), because i find it hard to see if someone have a black and a white parent like Obama or is just muli generation mulatto that is close to 50-50 white black LOL.
    From what i have seen afro american on tv act like it is something different. multi genration mullatos with black blood from both sides like to say my both parents are black.
     
  22. War Lord

    War Lord Newbie

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    "there is no difference in running between west-east euros"

    Yes, there is. You can look at all-time lists and you will have a hard time to find an East European in distances longer than 1500 m. The vast majority of top Europeans in the range between 800 m-Marathon have been of West European or South European descent. They simply have the right body for it. In contrast, you won't see people from these regions as medal contenders in weightlifting competitions (and recently not even in powerlifting, a traditional US sport).
     
  23. War Lord

    War Lord Newbie

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    "sub 10 in the 100 meter: 70 blacks, 2mixed, 1 whit"

    Who is the second "mixed" sprinter besides Johnson? Fredericks?
     
  24. War Lord

    War Lord Newbie

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    "of course social comes into play but in holland we have only very thin %
    of the dutch does athletics( and you can't choose sports with
    school)and you get only money when you have started good results, but
    mostly not enough money that you can live from it that is only when
    you're world class."

    The meagre Dutch participation in athletics is one of the most mind-boggling things in sports, because they may have the best world's physique for athletics overall.
     
  25. War Lord

    War Lord Newbie

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    This is not fully correct. There exists a wide range of physiques among
    Caucasians. In fact, West Europeans represent one of the slimmest
    extremes (together with Northwest Africans and South Asians), while East
    Euros and Near Easterners are the most robust humans on Earth (after
    Pacific Islanders, who are nevertheless small in numbers). Central/North
    Europeans, East Asians and West Africans lie somewhere in the middle.
     

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