2007 Giants

Don Wassall

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Back when Tom Coughlin coached the expansion Jacksonville Jaguars into almost an instant title contender, about half the Jags' starters were white. There were no white running backs, wide receivers or cornerbacks, but there was a white presence at the other positions.


But by the time Coughlin left Jacksonville the team had slipped into mediocrity and was well on its way to being what it is now: the blackest of the black when it comes to NFL franchises, as Coughlin dispensed with white defensive players and many white offensive ones as well.


Unfortunately the Giants look little different than Jacksonville did late in Coughlin's tenure there. There are no white starters on defense and just three white backups. One of them is rookie Craig Dahl, who is listed on various depth charts both as a safety and a -- hold your breath now -- cornerback. At which position will he play, or will he be purely a White Special Teams Demon?


Third year man Chase Blackburn has acquitted himself well as an emergency starter at linebacker, though Giants fans even more so than the drunk white fans in other cities seem horrified any time a white player takes a defensive position. Rookie Zak DeOssie out of Brown also made the roster as a strongside LB but will be mainly utilized as a long snapper.


Peyton's little brother is the starting quarterback, and is bound to be one of the most scrutinized QBs in the NFL this season. Eli has played well at times but his level of play has fallen off in the second half of the past two seasons. He flinches in the face of pressure, something he will have to get over if he wants to be among the best at his position.


Jared Lorenzen, fairly mobile at 285 pounds, is one of the backup QBs.


Big bad Jeremy Shockey is an elite tight end. His only drawback is that his all-out style of play lends itself to persistent nagging injuries. Now in his sixth season, Shockey may not be quite the fleet-footed brute he was earlier in his career but he still has the ability to gain a thousand yards if better utilized as a receiving threat. Shockey's career best receiving seasons have been 891 yards (2005) and 894 yards (2002).


Kevin Boss, a very athletic rookie out of Western Oregon, is one of the backups to Shockey.


The four white starting linemen are RG Chris Snee (Coughlin's son in law), C Shaun O'Hara, LG Rich Seubert, and LT David Diehl.


Adam Koets and Grey Reugamer are backups.


NUMBER OF WHITE STARTERS: 6


APPROXIMATE NUMBER OF WHITE PLAYERS ON 53 MAN ROSTER: 15


GRADE: F+Edited by: Don Wassall
 

Stonewall

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The Giants are another playoff bound team comprised of a majority white offense.


The media jumps all over Eli Manning, of course. But he has the same record that Peyton had following his first 48 NFL games. Shockey is making big plays, and the offensive line is opening up big holes for the backs.
 

White Shogun

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backrow said:

wtf?? That must have been some bump.
smiley5.gif
 

backrow

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let's see if with Kiwanuka out for the remainder of the season Zak DeOssie gets some action.
 

ToughJ.Riggins

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Virtually any white player that gets a chance in the NFL not at QB, o-line, TE or Kickers are good players. Whites have to do so much more to overcome the discrimination against them. Even at LB their are still huge college recruiting biases. I predict DeOssie learns quickly, he is from Brown University so he is obviously smart! DeOssie also had a faster 40 time than Jon Beason LB of Miami and most other top black LB prospects taken ahead of him in the draft. DeOssie ran a 4.56/4.59 40 yard dash.
 

Stonewall

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DeOssie's father played in the NFL, so he definitely has the bloodlines and surely has the football acumen to succeed in the league. My hope is that he'll be starting next year. I remember Keith Brooking in 1998 (after being a first round pick) didn't see a lot of time with Atlanta. We'll see, but it does worry me when guys like DeOssie, Bobby Carpenter, and Stewart Bradley ride the pine while the black starters in front of them miss tackles, fail to properly readoffenses, and just basically make bone-headed plays, but keep their jobs because they are "great athletes" with "unlimited potential".
 
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I think someone put Tavaris Jackon in a Giants jersey today and put some
white makeup on him. Lord, how can I guy who's had pro QB coaching
from the age of three be this bad?
 

jaxvid

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Tartan Pride said:
I think someone put Tavaris Jackon in a Giants jersey today and put some
white makeup on him. Lord, how can I guy who's had pro QB coaching
from the age of three be this bad?

You're not the only white guy with a short memory. Couple weeks ago the Giants were headed to the playoffs thanks to the "white Tavarius Jackson". After his bad game the dumping on him is incredible. From Yahoo sports: "Oh brother was he awful!" "With Peyton Manning looking on, Giants QB Eli Manning stunk up the Meadowlands on Sunday" "With Big Bro watching Eli Manning plays awful!"

Ha ha, welcome to New York.

I see Vince Young had his usual crappy game. Not much media attention. I wonder why?
 

Piggy

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jaxvid said:
You're not the only white guy with a short memory. Couple weeks ago the Giants were headed to the playoffs thanks to the "white Tavarius Jackson". After his bad game the dumping on him is incredible. From Yahoo sports: "Oh brother was he awful!" "With Peyton Manning looking on, Giants QB Eli Manning stunk up the Meadowlands on Sunday" "With Big Bro watching Eli Manning plays awful!"

Ha ha, welcome to New York.

I see Vince Young had his usual crappy game. Not much media attention. I wonder why?

This is the usual programming we receive from the "powers that be" that also want to get rid the caste system except they want to do it by never signing any more whites to any position. There must be a black QB out there somewhere that can take Eli's place. After all haven't we been told there is a quality QB shortage?

It's amazing that Eli seems to get the entire blame for this loss by so many "common taters." It must have been him that let that 60 yd pass by Jackson get by the defensive back. It must have been him that tipped the pass that was intercepted. It must have been totally his fault that three interceptors returned the ball for TDs. It must have been him that dropped so many of his own passes. It must have been him that let those defensive lineman in on him to sack him. It must have been him running those broken patterns that can be blamed for possibly two of the interceptions Eli threw.

Although I'm sure his job will be scrutinized a bit closer from now on, I did find one sports writer that was a bit more objective about the Giants loss than those of the "get Eli" frame of mindlessness:

[url]http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnF lZUVFeXkxMDYmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcyMjYxODMmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y 3dnFlZUVFeXk2[/url]
 

guest301

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Eli's last name and the burden that comes with living up to Peyton and Archie Manning will always weigh heavy on Eli. The guy has decent numbers this year and they are 7-4, that's usually good enough for most QB's.
 

Don Wassall

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I watched some of that game and Manning and his receivers, including Shockey, were not on the same page. Don't know if there is locker room dissension again like there was last season, but something was very wrong with the entire Giants team in that game. But putting all the blame on the quarterback is the time honored way of the drunk fans and the media, especially when the quarterback is white.
 

White Shogun

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guest301 said:
Eli's last name and the burden that comes with living up to Peyton and Archie Manning will always weigh heavy on Eli. The guy has decent numbers this year and they are 7-4, that's usually good enough for most QB's.

Whatever happened to the old axiom, 'All he does is win games?'
 

bigunreal

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Eli Manning will have to possess some incredible intestinal fortitude in order to survive much longer in the NFL. He has been despised by the jock-sniffers in the media from the moment he refused to play for the Chargers and ended up being traded to the Giants on draft day. Any black player's incessant demands are respected by these same jock-sniffers, who invariably lighten the mood when reporting on some black thug's ridiculous behavior by saying something like "give a brother some love." It's a safe bet that none of these jock-sniffers or drunk white fans are about to give Eli some love.

Eli Manning's stats compare favorably to just about any black QB in the history of the NFL, and to most of the white QBs as well. For some reason, the entire Manning family is not popular with the media or the fans. Although Peyton has managed to quiet the critics with last year's Super Bowl title, he still doesn't get the respect that a Brady or a Favre do (and certainly isn't beloved like all the black QBs are). Archie Manning was lambasted for what was perceived as his role in convincing Eli not to play for the Chargers. Eli, of course, has had his every move scrutinized since he came into the league. The fact that he had more TDs passes in his first 3 seasons in the league than any other QB in NFL history, except for Dan Marino and his brother Peyton, went totally unreported by the jock-sniffers who gleefully analyze his every incompletion. Finally, it was widely reported recently that Eli came in 3rd place in a player poll of which QBs are the easiest to intimidate. I know it's a shocker to hear that the other two QBs were white. We all know, of course, that black players at any position cannot be intimidated. It's not a black thing. If you're curious, #2 was Joey Harrington and #1 was Rex Grossman. Totally predictable.

I hope I'm wrong, and Eli Manning goes on to have a great career. If he does, with all the obstacles he has to face, he must be a truly exceptional player.
 

Piggy

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bigunreal said:
Eli Manning will have to possess some incredible intestinal fortitude in order to survive much longer in the NFL.

It seems to me that Eli does possess such a quality which is manifested by his so-called "laid back demeanor." Even this seems to upset so many. It seems they can't stand the fact that Eli doesn't let their "tongue wagging" rattle him:

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/27/sports/football/27giants.h tml?em&ex=1196312400&en=cfcaad19b19292d9&ei=5087%0A [/url]

At least one "common-tater" sees this quality as what allows him to continue to play in New York:

[url]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/john_rolfe/11/ 27/eli.hysteria/[/url]

They say they want him to be more vocal and display more emotion when things aren't going the way they think they should. The very idea that the feeding-frenzy the media sharks prepare for Eli doesn't seem to affect him seems to drive them nuts. The more he lets their words roll off of him the more it seems they come after him.

IMHO, they were watering at the mouth for a day like last Sunday. They actually had started their attacks with the Dolphin's game in London, but since the Giants won that one, they couldn't make much stick. The next game Eli played very well, IMHO. But then came black Sunday and "Katie bar the door." It was what the caste doctor ordered.

With the exception of a few objective writers virtually everybody else is crying like gut-shot panthers. It's totally amazing! I've never seen anything like it. I thought they were bad concerniing Rex Grossman, but Manning's treatment makes Grossman's seem like he is at the proverbial "Sunday School picnic." Grossman's probably looking forward to next Sunday's game wih the Giants because for once in his career he's playing against a QB more hated than he.

It's not enough that former black team mate Tiki Barber has lambasted him, but the black GM has come out this week and piled on with unnecessary roughness by saying Manning looked "skittish." Boy! With GMs like that who needs poll-parrot sports writers?

bigunreal said:
He has been despised by the jock-sniffers in the media from the moment he refused to play for the Chargers and ended up being traded to the Giants on draft day.

Yeah, big brother doesn't like the white "boy" to control things you know? Eli was supposed to do what they wanted him to do. But he didn't. Now he must pay!

bigunreal said:
...It's a safe bet that none of these jock-sniffers or drunk white fans are about to give Eli some love.

They are easily programmed. All you have to do is read the comments following an article about Manning and they parrot what we're told by the talking heads. I mean how do these clowns know Eli is a leader or not? Are they there in the huddle or locker room with him? No they are told Eli isn't a leader. If one of the mindless sports writer clones were to say Eli is actually a Martian, they'd believe it and be calling for Eli's extradition to the "Red Planet."

bigunreal said:
Eli Manning's stats compare favorably to just about any black QB in the history of the NFL, and to most of the white QBs as well.

But when did positive facts ever play a part in character assassination?

bigunreal said:
For some reason, the entire Manning family is not popular with the media or the fans.

I'm inclined to believe it's the Manning's Mississippi connection. Both Archie and his wife, Olivia are from Mississippi. Archie, Cooper and Eli all played at Ole Miss. Peyton went to Tennessee, which might have given him some reprieve.

Mississippi seems to reap such "love" from the self-appointed "chosen ones." Remember when one of their own, supposed comedian Jerry Lewis, while filling in for Johnny Carson on "The Tonight Show" in 1968 said he fulfilled a life long dream by using the bathroom when he flew over Mississippi?

What puzzles me is how fellow Mississippian, Bret Favre seems to be a media darling. But he went to the University of Southern Mississippi and not Ole Miss. Perhaps that's the reason!?! I really don't know!

bigunreal said:
The fact that he had more TDs passes in his first 3 seasons in the league than any other QB in NFL history, except for Dan Marino and his brother Peyton, went totally unreported by the jock-sniffers who gleefully analyze his every incompletion.

Another little known fact is that Eli's record is exactly the same as Peyton's for the same amount of games played. At least up until last Sunday. Another fact is Eli is on track to tally another 3000 yd + 20 TD season for the third straight year. Something only Super Bowl MVP, Phil Simms has done for the Giants.

bigunreal said:
Finally, it was widely reported recently that Eli came in 3rd place in a player poll of which QBs are the easiest to intimidate.

I think the sports writers inability to intimidate Eli via their attacks is what probably got him on that list.

bigunreal said:
I hope I'm wrong, and Eli Manning goes on to have a great career. If he does, with all the obstacles he has to face, he must be a truly exceptional player.

I think he can do it. Remember, Eli was born in New Orleans and I believe he lives up to the that city's reputation of being "The Big Easy." Edited by: Piggy
 

Thrashen

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"The very idea that the feeding-frenzy the media sharks prepare for Eli doesn't seem to affect him seems to drive them nuts. The more he lets their words roll off of him the more it seems they come after him."

Haha, great point, man!

It's true, nothing bothers him, which is my favorite quality about him. The media has literally tried everything to bash Eli, but he won't stoop as low as those jock-sniffing losers to fight back.

I still can't believe what that wolf in sheeps clothing, Tiki, said about him. Yet nobody has the nerve to tell Tiki the truth...he ran behind a great OL. It's not a coincidence that the ONLY RB's who ever do well in the NFL have that key ingredient. Tiki had the gaul to insult Eli's "quiet nature," while he talks not only like a white man, but a gay white man!

Seriously, the Giants are LUCKY as hell to even have Eli on their team.Edited by: Thrashen
 

Jimmy Chitwood

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great analysis, Piggy!

especially how you noted his win-loss record compared to Peyton Manning, AND the passing yardage and TD totals that he's accumulated.

it's a shame that those numbers aren't presented in the 'unbiased news' reports from the media.
 

guest301

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White Shogun said:
guest301 said:
Eli's last name and the burden that comes with living up to Peyton and Archie Manning will always weigh heavy on Eli. The guy has decent numbers this year and they are 7-4, that's usually good enough for most QB's.

Whatever happened to the old axiom, 'All he does is win games?'

That old axiom only works for Black Qb's. Which of course is exactly your point, Shogun.
 

Piggy

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Jimmy Chitwood said:
great analysis, Piggy!

especially how you noted his win-loss record compared to Peyton Manning, AND the passing yardage and TD totals that he's accumulated.

it's a shame that those numbers aren't presented in the 'unbiased news' reports from the media.

Thank you! Here are some other stats of Manning's that aren't exactly celler dweller stats: Out of the 34 QBs rated Manning is: 13th in total yards; 10th in TDs; 12th in passes over 20 yds; 14th in passes over 40 yds; 10th in number of completions.

However, all you're going to hear from those that have "selflessly" taken the responsibility for deciding who is worthy of being an NFL QB (I wonder how many of these "experts" have ever thrown a football) is Manning's "low" passer rating of 75.0 which is 24th out of 34 QBs.

What makes me wonder is why we never hear these "omniscient" prognosticators calling for the head of some of the QBs rated below Manning. When was the last time you heard one of these "guillotinians" calling for the head of Steve McNair (73.9), Cleo Lemon (69.4) or Vince Young (65.3)?

If memory serves me, I don't think I've watched an NFL game or ESPN football show, this year that hasn't equated Vince Young with "The Second Coming." Of course we must not let that low QB rating influence us to doubt this honor being bestowed upon the best QB "soon to be" in NFL history. He only has 13 interceptions which is waaaay below Manning's 15. And Mannings paltry 18 TDs can't even begin to compare to Young's "astronomical" # of 5 TDs. And Manning's 2376 yds is just barely ahead of Young's 1663 yds.

And we all know how perfect the passer rating system is. It's a good thing for Joe Namath that system didn't exist in his day. He had a lifetime completion of 50.1%. He threw 47 more interceptions than he threw TDs. His lifetime QB rating is 65.5. Based on that knowledge don't you believe Vince Young is almost equal to Broadway Joe in ability?

Some other "great" QBs and their ratings are: Archie Manning (67.1); Jamie Harris (67.3); Jim Plunkett (67.5); Billy Kilmer (71.5); Sammy Baugh (72.2); John Brodie (72.3); Ron Jaworski (72.8); Daryle Lamonica (73.0); Don Meredith (74.8); Ken Stabler (75.3); Doug Flutie (76.3); Joe Theisman (77.4); Otto Graham (78.2); Johnny Unitas (78.3); John Elway (79.9); Dan Fouts (80.2); Fran Tarkenton (80.4); Bart Starr (80.5); Boomer Esiasen (81.1); Kenny Anderson (81.9); Warren Moon (80.9); Lenny Dawson (82.6); Sonny Jurgensen (82.6); Roger Staubach (83.4); Jim Kelly (84.4).

Of course this is simply the average of these QBs over their career, but if they simply played their average none of them would be in the top 17 QBs today. Eli's 75.0 doesn't look too bad when compared to these "also rans!" Huh? With the exception of Moon and Harris all of the above QBs who were considered "great" to many people are barely mediocre to the QBs today. And just think, we're having a quality QB shortage.







Edited by: Piggy
 

Bart

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Piggy, you certainly put time and effort into your post andon the whole you prove that Eli has performed better than most peole would suspect, butto compare the old-timers stats to those of today isn't valid because the game has changed so much. Edited by: Bart
 

Piggy

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Bart said:
Piggy, you certainly put time and effort into your post and on the whole you prove that Eli has performed better than most peole would suspect, but to compare the old-timers stats to those of today isn't  valid because the game has changed so much.

Yes you are quite right Bart! To compare the QBs of yore with today's QBs is not parity. While the vital stats, i.e., passing percentage, yardage, TDs and INTs can be stuck into the flawed QBR calculator and produce a QBR for them, what was important to those players and coaches at that time cannot be measured in the infernal device.

Things, e.g., "team play" and winning by whatever means available were the important factors in a QBs rating in those days. Had the QBR been in vogue then and a QBs salary, ranking and criticism was generated from those stats, the odds are the old great QBs would have done what was necessary to pad his rating.

Since the QBR is so cued to the TD to INT ratio, in order to increase the QBR a QB need only pass short, safe passes.

For example a QB completing 30 or 40 passes while compiling a total of 300 yds with 3 TDs and 2 INTs yields a QBR of 100.0 a QB completing 22 of 30 passes for 150 yds with 2 TDs and no INTs will yield a QBR of 106.3.

As you can see the former passes the latter in all categories except INTs and he's over 6 points below him. It's not a true QB rating, but an INT rating. This is what I meant to portray when I gave those stats for the old timers. Most of those QBs were truly great and we knew it then. We didn't need no stinkin' QBR. Who ever watched a bombing blitz by Joe Willie to Sauer and Maynard ever thought he was anything but spectacular? Or Dan Fouts? I still remember games he tossed that blow me away even today.

To judge a QB based mainly on the QBR is to judge on fallacy as so many other important things are rendered not so important by the QBR.

Of course if its a black then the QBR doesn't have any effect upon his rating because the swivel hips effect and "athleticism" can't be measured by the QBR. Something white QBs do not have. So it's just not right to hold the QBR against them as it's held against white QBs.
 

White Shogun

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If you're not going to use QBR then you give legitimacy to the argument that Vince Young, et al, have the 'intangibles' that it takes to win games. These guys rarely throw TD passes, throw multiple INT's per game, and for few yards. That's why they get - and deserve - a low QBR and why it is a fair enough measurement, in my opinion, to use as a statistical tool for quarterback comparison purposes.
 

Piggy

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White Shogun said:
If you're not going to use QBR then you give legitimacy to the argument that Vince Young, et al, have the 'intangibles' that it takes to win games. These guys rarely throw TD passes, throw multiple INT's per game, and for few yards. That's why they get - and deserve - a low QBR and why it is a fair enough measurement, in my opinion, to use as a statistical tool for quarterback comparison purposes.

Firstly, black QBs are not guaged on the QBR per se. When was the last time you heard a caste system proponent talking about how poorly Young is QBing as per his QBR? I do hear a bit of talk about Gerard's QBR, but I believe that only because he's #4 in QBR.

I heard two ESPN commentators discussing who they would want to build a team around and both of them said "Vince" is the man. If QBR is any indication of how good a QB is, then why on this green earth would anyone want to start their franchise off with the 30th rated QB in the league?

Secondly, the QBR is flawed. It's not a true guage of the value and ability of a QB, IMHO. There are many things a QB does that the QBR does not or cannot rate. To have the main point mover be interceptions is misleading and does not give a true picture of a QBs worth.

Think of Namath! He threw more interceptions than TDs. Yet when Namath was playing I do not remember anyone judging him on that stat. And as we all know he was a franchise QB who led his team to victory in the Super Bowl against the mighty Colts of Johnny U. Heck! Joe Willie guaranteed the win and who knows how much that factor played in the game? That's something that can't be measured.

If Namath's paycheck had been dependant upon how few interceptions he threw, it's highly unlikely we would have seen many of those breath-taking aerial rockets that seemed to cover 3/4ths of the field while threathening to enter the "stratosphere" for which Broadway Joe was so well known.

Secondly, I don't have anything against a reliable QBR. However what we're stuck with ain't cuttin' it and it's not preventing the caste system from becoming more embedded in the NFL. On the contrary, it's being used as a battering ram to denigrate white QBs that really are quite good such as Eli.

Why does the present QBR calculate yds per pass? Why not yds per completion? After all aren't the incomplete passes covered under the percentage of completion category?

In the present QBR its possible to get a "perfect" rating if all your measured stats compute to 158.3. Strange number for perfection doncha think? Perfection can be accomplished even if you don't complete all of your passes. How can something be perfect when it includes failure, i.e., "incomplete passes" which are nothing more than failed pass attempts?

Anyway, I suppose we're stuck with it as it is. Once something's in place it's hard to change it. IMHO if "fans" understood how the present QBR works or, better said, "doesn't work" they would be less likely to form an opinion about a QB's worth via the QBR. And the talking heads couldn't as easily just spout the QBR figure to slander a QB they don't like.
 

Bart

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Piggy said:
I heard two ESPN commentators discussing who they would want to build a team around and both of them said "Vince" is the man.


The analysts must be nuts or share the same IQ as Vince Young.
smiley36.gif
No, the truth is they are doing what ESPN hired them to do. They are spin doctors manipulating the gullible sheeple.
 

White Shogun

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Piggy said:
Firstly, black QBs are not guaged on the QBR per se. When was the last time you heard a caste system proponent talking about how poorly Young is QBing as per his QBR?

Black quarterbacks are not rated by any objective standard at all, thanks for making my point.

The QBR is simply another tool in the statistical ammo box that one can use to refute the arguments that a given black quarterback is better than 99% of all starting white quarterbacks, even if he loses more games, throws more INTs, fewer TD passes, fewer completions for less yardage, and takes more sacks.

Tell me in your own words why Vince Young isn't a viable starting quarterback without using statistics.

Oh, and Namath was overrated.
 
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