2009 World Championship of Track & Field

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StarWars

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green fire317 said:
do whites have an advantage in short distances like the 60m? im not really a track guy. also do whites have an advantage at events like the 10m?
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The 10m distance is not ever run, but we have splits. Because the 10m split is of a 60m/100m runner, they could be faster. But the 10m/60m splits of blacks are slightly faster than whites, and we all know about the 100m. This is at the very elite level though, like top 20 in the world, and even so there are still whites there. The record in the 60m is 6.39, and we are still top 20 ever with Morne Nagel's 6.48 60, and we do even better in the 50m. Even in the 100, watch out for Christophe Lemaitre. And by the time we get higher to the 200/400 distance we are very competitive at the elit level. Ramil Guliyev may get bronze in the 200 in two days.

Straight line speed goes to the small advantage of blacks, yet we perform better internationally (i.e. w/o caste system) in most athletic and fast twitch sports like soccer, tennis, and rugby.


In conclusion, the is no advantage to having darker skin (black or west African) except fot the 100m and shorter at the elite level, and even then we can be elite too. It is not uncommon for a white person to make the finals in any race besides 100m (top 8 in world), and it even happens in the 100.

There are more than enough fast white people, trust me. No race (between blacks and whites) is faster until the elite level, and even then we are close, and potentially could be closer.
 
white lightning

white lightning

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Get your sleep on early tonight if you can guys. The mens 200 heats and the 400 heats start in the middle of the night. I will be up watching every minute of it.
 
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white lightning said:
Get your sleep on early tonight if you can guys. The mens 200 heats and the 400 heats start in the middle of the night. I will be up watching every minute of it.
Click to expand...

Tyson Gay pulled out of the 200 and now Guliyev can medal. Also, a pos. test in 100m final.
 
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Like White Lightning and probably many others who post here I also ran the sprints. I can remember the first time I broke 10 flat in the 100--yards that is. Then the wind meter came back at something slightly over 2.2. I was all of 17 and on a DG track that was dragged perhaps once a week with a section of chain link fence. I never ran on anything but DG and occasionally clay. The guys back east ran on the faster cinder tracks but in abysmal weather most of the time. The tracks today are all synthetic and extremely fast. They have tremendous spring. Any of you other old-time sprinters please go and take a few bounding strides on one of the tracks today. It will boggle your mind. The synthetic tracks are worth at least 3 tenths in the 100 over the very best of the old dirt tracks and probably a half second or more over the poor tracks. A member of the 1956 U.S. track team in Melbourne--I don't recall his name--said that the track that Bobby Morrow won the 100 on was in horrible condition after a downpour. He said that Morrow was throwing up chunks of track with each stride and would have run a 10 flat on a fast track and I would add a 9.8 on a synthetic surface. Now, I understand that electronic timing would add 2 tenths. Morrow would still have a 10 flat. Dave Sime would have easily done so also. And Mel Patton may have been faster than both of them. These sprinters ran the 100 yards (the real sprint!) in 9.3, which is equal to a 10.1 or better in meters. They all would have benefitted dramatically from a synthetic track. Mel Patton once ran a 9.1 with the wind only fractionally over the legal limit on UCLA's old dirt track, which was slow-average on its very best day. Moreover, most sprinters back then were out of track as soon as they graduated from college. Few ran beyong their 21st or 22nd birthdays. I would love to see a Sime, Morrow, or Patton full of HGH and designer steroids on a synthetic track.
 
white lightning

white lightning

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Excellent post. I couldn't agree more with you. Todays sprinters have so many advantages which help them to run eye popping times. From weight lifting designed for sprinters, plyometrics, dietician, sports massuese, computers to help teach proper form(frame by frame), better tracks, better spikes, etc. Not to mention the supplements and of course the peds. East Germany was one of the first to do it on a regular basis. Countries like the US, Russia, England, Jamaicca, Greece and many others have all done their share of both hgh and roids. The athletes are almost always several steps ahead of the testers.

Morrow and Sime could both really fly. I have seen many films of them. Haven't seen as much of Patton but I've read plenty.

So what do you think of Christophe Lemaitre and Ramil Guliyev so far? I'm very impressed myself. They are only 19 and the sky is the limit in my opinion. I will await your reply and welcome to the board.Edited by: white lightning
 
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swampfox

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Been working a long weekend,Haven't been able to keep up with the WC's except in the results column the next day. Excellent point's Thousand Okie the elite white sprinters of yesteryear would have benefitted enormously from our techno advances not only on race day but in being able to train faster as well. If they had been born 30,40,50 years later they would be mixed in on the starting line in the finals. Which gets me to the next thing. Even if we give a slight genetic advantage to the black athlete in short sprints,that can in no way explain a complete black out(no pun intended) for white competition over the last 20 or twenty-five years. 1 finalist in the WC's or Olym. since '87, give me a break. If half the finallist's were west-african descent O.K. that is a very disproportionate representation and could be explained by a genetic advantage,but 1 finallist out of something like 96; in the biggest of the sports events, come on you've got to admit something else is going on.PEDS oh yeah that's a huge factor,but something I think is bigger is the caste system.It would not do to have 2 or 3 whites out of 8 make it to the finals with descent reprentation on the medal stand and,God forbid, the occassional or even more often champion. My goodness that might inspire more of the little white devils to compete and if that happened sport could no longer be the purview of one particular race and that might mess up our whole world view and bring the facade down. As far as Pickering is concerned. HE IS 22 YEARS OLD! Wells didnt break 11 seconds until he was 26,and you forget about all his 10.1's w/no wind or head wind,even last year he ran some 10.2's into gale force wind,a 10.26 into a -3.6 once. turn that into a positive 1.5 or 2.0 you've got your sub10. Onward in the 200m I've got big hopes for guliyev,hession, and hering.I'd love to see two of our boys make the final with guliyev medalling.I pull for connaughton but he is my distant darkhorse. I'm real dissapointed in van Zyl in the 400 hurd., but I'm still holding out hope for a medal out of our stock.
 
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For 19 years old, Lemaitre (I haven't had French in 45 years but doesn't that mean "the master"?) is a phenom. I've just now watched some video on him. He has a stride that reflects his height but more impressive to me and clearly a major factor in his fast times is his knee lift. Watch him winning the junior championships. His knee lift is clearly better than anyone else in the race and all the more impressive because he is so tall. His knee lift, drive, and stride will surely carry him below 10 flat in the near future--unless he is injured. Most whites physically mature far later than blacks. It is one of the reasons we have whites from Europe--but not from America--running good sprint times. White European sprinters have the opportunity to mature without being destroyed in the sprints. Since integration of the schools in the U.S., whites have been conspicuously absent from the sprints. Before high school I ran in the age-group track meets sponsored by the L.A. Department of Parks and Recreation. Track was huge back then in Southern California and was second only to football as a sport. Because I was fairly fast I would wind up at the championships, which were held in South Central L.A. at Rancho Cienega Park. I ran there when 14-years-old, for example, in the 9th grade in junior high (L.A. in those days had 3-year high schools). There were blacks I ran against who, physically, were men. They ran the 100 (yards) in 10.1 or 10.2. It was unbelievable. I was running a full second slower. Most of the same blacks were running 10 flat or so when they were seniors in high school. They hadn't grown at all and looked little different than three years earlier. They had improved all of one or two tenths. By 17 I had grown four inches and improved more than a full second and was beating many of the same guys who had destroyed me when at was 14 in the 9th grade. Yet, if I had gone to a school with a significant number of blacks I would never have been one of the fastest guys for my grade level and been running the sprints. Because I was in a nearly all-white school, I had the opportunity to mature and develop. Even when I was a senior, I didn't shave except for my upper lip. My father-in-law went to University High School (in West Los Angeles) with Mel Patton. In the tenth grade he ran about 10.4. He lowered that to 10 flat in the 11th and to 9.8 as a senior. Four years later at SC he was running 9.3 and 20.2, world records in both sprints. He would never be allowed to develop like that today. I would venture to guess that America has dozens of white international-caliber sprinters each generation now who have no opportunity to develop.
 
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Guys, excellent posts!
Okie, keen observations about physiological age and school integration.
 
white lightning

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You story is similar to Brutal. Only that he claims that whites shouldn't even try in the sprints. If that was the case, why should asians or anyone try? The olympics are about diversity. It has been said on this board countless times how whites are steered into other events in track. Then you also have the fact that whites go into a huge variety of sports, music and academics. There are so many different things for whites to choose from. Between the parents, teachers, coaches, friends, society pressure, etc, track & especially the sprints are one of the last things that whites participate in. There are some that do but not near the numbers that used to participate. The parents also tell them that there is no future in it. Just like the blacks needed a president to look up to, whites need white sprinters in the US as role models so that they too can belive in being the fastest man or woman on the track. Other than Wariner, the cupboard is dry and has been for a very long time.

Guys like Lemaitre and Guliyev prove my point that I've been saying for decades now. Whites can compete. We just don't see enough numbers that participate to find the men and women on the edge of the bell curve. With our vast population, I guarantee there are many other Lemaitre/Guliyev types. Especially in the US. If we could only get white kids to put away their playstations & xbox's, and start running track! If you think the European runners are good, I would be willing to bet that we have even better talent in the good old USA. Sadly we may never find out. Whites need a few 100/200 potential medalists to get them more interested in the sprints. I'm hoping we found a few guys. Robert Herring also strikes me as having some serious potential as he gets stronger. He is even skinnier than the other two guys. The bottom line is that the future looks bright at the moment.
 
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Thousand Okie said:
For 19 years old, Lemaitre (I haven't had French in 45 years but doesn't that mean "the master"?) is a phenom.  I've just now watched some video on him.  He has a stride that reflects his height but more impressive to me and clearly a major factor in his fast times is his knee lift.  Watch him winning the junior championships.  His knee lift is clearly better than anyone else in the race and all the more impressive because he is so tall.  His knee lift, drive, and stride will surely carry him below 10 flat in the near future--unless he is injured.  Most whites physically mature far later than blacks.  It is one of the reasons we have whites from Europe--but not from America--running good sprint times.  White European sprinters have the opportunity to mature without being destroyed in the sprints.  Since integration of the schools in the U.S., whites have been conspicuously absent from the sprints.  Before high school I ran in the age-group track meets sponsored by the L.A. Department of Parks and Recreation.  Track was huge back then in Southern California and was second only to football as a sport.  Because I was fairly fast I would wind up at the championships, which were held in South Central L.A. at Rancho Cienega Park.  I ran there when 14-years-old, for example, in the 9th grade in junior high (L.A. in those days had 3-year high schools).  There were blacks I ran against who, physically, were men.  They ran the 100 (yards) in 10.1 or 10.2.  It was unbelievable.  I was running a full second slower.  Most of the same blacks were running 10 flat or so when they were seniors in high school. They hadn't grown at all and looked little different than three years earlier.  They had improved all of one or two tenths.  By 17 I had grown four inches and improved more than a full second and was beating many of the same guys who had destroyed me when at was 14 in the 9th grade.  Yet, if I had gone to a school with a significant number of blacks I would never have been one of the fastest guys for my grade level and been running the sprints.  Because I was in a nearly all-white school, I had the opportunity to mature and develop.  Even when I was a senior, I didn't shave except for my upper lip.  My father-in-law went to University High School (in West Los Angeles) with Mel Patton.  In the tenth grade he ran about 10.4.  He lowered that to 10 flat in the 11th and to 9.8 as a senior.  Four years later at SC he was running 9.3 and 20.2, world records in both sprints.  He would never be allowed to develop like that today.  I would venture to guess that America has dozens of white international-caliber sprinters each generation now who have no opportunity to develop. 
Click to expand...
This is probably why only Kansas and Iowa and other states with lower black populations of produced world class white sprinters in the last 30 years. I think Wariner is the only exception to that rule.
 
white lightning

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We are only 3 hours away from the mens 200 heats starting. I will be on universalsports.com like usual. Got some cold ones ready and some food to go with it. Don't want to start too early. I love having vacation this week. It's nice to stay up all night watching track and then sleep in. Get up go for a swim and then do it all over again. Lol. The quarterfinals will be even better. I just want at least one of our guys to break through to the finals. Two or three would be even better but I will be happy with one for now.
 
mastermulti

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interesting points, Thousand Okie.
I see the value in what you're saying here because it applied to me.
We don't have many black people(except Indians), but I was a very slow developer and by the time I was 14/15 many of the guys I'd easily handled all the years before started beating me. As a result I lost interest and gave it away.

I didn't start doing any sprinting again till I was 46 and then had two years of constant injury and started to post reasonably decent times at 50, the same year I started high jump and triple jump.
My times at 50 reflected back to about an 11 second dead 100 at 30, which is OK for someone who would have been a multi-eventer as I turned out to be 20 years on.

I saw many of these guys at our 35 year school re-union and guess who was the physical specimen? Guess what the early developers look like now? None of them could boast mid 12 100m at 50+.

I don't feel at all bad about it since I'm now relatively fresh and injury free, so all was not lost.
But what you say is totally correct.

If you perceive yourself to be crap at something you give it up as I did..... although the wisdom of age and hindsight shows me I was NOT crap, just slow to get a man's strength. And as a kid no-one told me it would be so.
Edited by: mastermulti
 
white lightning

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40 minutes to go until it starts. On the average, whites walk later, hit puberty later and also mature overall later than blacks physically. That is one thing more colleges should look at. A white h.s. sprinter can have alot more upside after 18. The blacks just mature physcially quicker. It doesn't make them better. It is just the way it goes. We in my opinion should also have longer career on average because of this. In fact in the masters sprinting and up, the white sprinters pretty much dominate from what I've been told. We more than hold our own.
 
mastermulti

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OK W/L and all,
I'm shaved & showered, pouring a glass of red and getting a nice meal prepared to share with the family before settling down to watch the deuces.

Here's to some good performances....cheers!


Re masters sprinters WL.

My former coach Peter Crombie scored a 200 victory in Sydney aged 59 at 23.96 (+2.1mps)...poor bugger missed out on the WR by 0.1.
What I have also seen is ex Olympic sprinters in reasonably good shape coming into their respective masters age groups and getting beaten, sometimes comprehensively, by blokes who weren't running when they were young.

Edited by: mastermulti
 
mastermulti

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MARTY LOOKS LIKE A WEIGHT LIFTER. i WISH i COULD RUN THAT FAST THOUGH.

Look at the list who DIDN'T start the 2 hundreds.
Tyson Gay,
Duane Chambers,
Churandy Martina,
Arnaldo Abrantes,
Gerald Phiri,
Saidi Ndure,

there's 5 sub 20.50 in that lot bringing more hope to lots of others
 
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nash99

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By my count thru 3 days whites/asians have won 24 of 39 medals. That's over 60%....pretty good considering the media's portrayal of blacks as incredibly "athletic". As for steroids in the sprints..I would encourage white athletes to take them. Look at all the 'roiders that have won...Jones, Johnson, Montgomery, Greene...even whites like Block, Kenteris and Nestorenko were winners. Until they ban the sprints or have a one and done policy the results will always be bogus. I mean there was a Bahamian woman in the 100m final and she was 38 years old. Gimme a break!!! As for Jamaica...Nigeria has 100 blacks and they never even put a guy in the 100m finals and Jamaica has 3 every year. Too funny......As for Jamaicans "great" athletic abilities. The only team sport they compete in is soccer and they have never beaten the USA and the USA is horrible in soccer. You have to admit that....
 
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nash99

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Sorry. I meant Nigeria has 100 million blacks...I think Jamaica has about 2-3 million.....
 
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Jimmy Chitwood

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great posts, gentlemen.

i am really enjoying reading the insights of you guys who are knowledgable about track and field, as i am not. but with the info presented here, i am learning a lot.

please keep it up!
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StarWars

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There are 4 heats of the 200 quarter finals. The top 3 plus the 4 fastest times move on.

Heat 1: Nobody good of ours I believe.
Heat 2: Jared Connaughton. He will Q (placement) if he beats Devonish, Crawford, or Takahira. If not he will most likely q (by time). He may have to sprint all out, not even in the semis yeat.
Heat 3: Where our two best runners are. Unfortunately, so are Steve Mullings, Brendan Christian, and Stephane Buckland. Emanuel Callander also may pose a threat. Guliyev may Q, but Hession may have to q and sprint all out. This heat is like the final w/o Usain Bolt, horribly set up.
Heat 4: Robert Hering is looking good. He just has to come in 3d behind Spearmon and Alons Edward. Easy.

This will be tight. Not an easy round. Guliyev is our only medal contender. Hession could make the final, and Connaughton is a reach for the final. There are a lot of whites in the mid 20s that probably won't go anywhere like Smirnov and Niit, so I did'nt mention them.


In the 400, Wariner, Wissman, Gillick, Tobin, and Rooney all qualified for the semis. Others such as Kevin Borlee did too. This is the only sprint where whites have a chance to be 50/50 in the finals and actually get 2/3 medals. Good stuff.
 
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charlie180

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StarWars said:
Indeed. Another downfall of multiculturalism.
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Agreed. The Olympics was meant to be a meeting of all colours and creeds from around the world to compete to see who was the best. Today, at least in the sprints, it is all people of the same colour and from the same background/culture, which makes it worthless.

white lightning said:
He needs to change his coach. I can't force him to. It is a decision that only Craig can make.
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Isn't Malcolm Arnold his coach? The man who coached Colin Jackson and Jason Gardener? I thought that he was a pretty decent coach?

There was an interesting interview with Pickering today, not sure whether anyone saw it, but he was talking about Bolt's record and he called it science fiction time. He also appeared to have a pop at Edgar and Williamson and how he'd have tried to make the semi's. He also stated that from now on he is just aiming to break his PB and then 10.00s, rather than aiming for medals as he said he wasn't capable of a 9.84s.

This sounds good to me, he should just concentrate on improving rather than trying to be better than Williamson and Edgar and then being really disappointed every time he loses. It does sound as though he may bounce back next season, and the way I figure it, he has one more good season left.
 
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